Barbarian game mechanics info (2.0.6)

Barbarian
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I got a couple of questions.

Moldran showcased this video some time ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBQL2MIUSjk

Showing that Rend ticks proc Area Damage. He was mentioning Bloodshed as being the best rune to enhance that even further.

1) Do critical Rend ticks proc Bloodshed?
2) Can Area Damage crit and proc Bloodshed?
3) How does Rend proc Area Damage?

Another important question is for Hexing pants. If you charge at a mob with the inventory open you will see the damage buff being displayed. It will fade really quickly. Maybe even before you get Rend in.

4) Is the Rend damage itself dynamic or does it snapshot for the full duration?
5) Does crit chance snapshot at the start of Rend or does it update?
6) When using WW will Rend interrupt the WW animation?
7) Does the damage buff of Hexing pants snapshot?
8) What happens if one overrides Rend? Will a higher ticking dot be overwritten?

Imo the easiest way to test dynamic damage updates of Rend is by using Harrington. Removing it while the debuff is running.

If the damage snapshots Hexing pants can be tricky. Because it may be that the Rend animation is so slow that the buff has faded already.
He didn´t record what was going an and do a frame-by-frame analysis of monster health bar numbers like I did. You can find my research here:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12329703286?page=2#22
Later I even checked Earthquake and got similar results - procs Slaughter but not Bloodshed. Only the visuals were displayed.

Basically I have never seen a Bloodshed damage value be reflected on monster health bar numbers.

1) Do critical Rend ticks proc Bloodshed?
Nope, they didn´t in the past and there is no reason for them to do it now.
2) Can Area Damage crit and proc Bloodshed?
Basic rule of thumb in D3 is that procs are flagged not to trigger other procs. Bloodshed doesn´t proc Area Damage.
3) How does Rend proc Area Damage?
It´s mentioned in my spreadsheet in the Area Damage section (ctrl+f) and also in amiar´s AD thread which was featured recently on the main page. AD may be procced on every damage tick of a DoT. I mean the actual tick (reflected on monster health bar numbers) and not the sum of 48 frames of damage that pops up above monsters (that´s just a visual clue).
4) Is the Rend damage itself dynamic or does it snapshot for the full duration?
Rend and pretty much every other skill is determined upon cast (weapon damage, strength bonus, damage increased by skills etc.). Exceptions are Ancients and now also Whirlwind.
5) Does crit chance snapshot at the start of Rend or does it update?
Rend always only had one crit roll so it was determined upon cast. When they incorporated crit mod into rend formula in 2.0.5, they removed the ability to crit. Now it´s back and again, it´s just one crit roll and the whole duration of 5 seconds will either be crits or non-crits depending on that one roll.
Quake on the other hand performs crit rolls every 0.5 sec and it´s dynamic. Back in the days when people used gearswapsnapshotting (Rapid Fire, Strafe), they didn´t snapshot crit chance - it was the only one that didn´t work.
6) When using WW will Rend interrupt the WW animation?

Yes both skills are in the same category unlike Overpower or War Cry which do not interrupt it.
7) Does the damage buff of Hexing pants snapshot?

Upon cast of Rend. I am not sure about the exact moment so far, haven´t researched it properly - whether it´s the click (skill activation) or the moment of the fury globe response. You should check the animation breakpoints in my spreadsheet, Rend´s first phase from when you click the skill until the fury cost is substracted and the target is hit is shorter than the release phase (after the hit until the swinging animation ends - this release phase may be skipped by using force move).
8) What happens if one overrides Rend? Will a higher ticking dot be overwritten?

New Rend will overwrite the previous as they don´t stack. Seems like only cooldown DoTs may stack, spammable ones don´t.

I have some badly rolled Yan pants so I´m kind of lacking the motivation to test it more cause I won´t be able to utilize what I learned in optimizing the item :) but I´ll see what I can do, WW/FC/Sprint into Rend is a hot topic right now.
Hey Nubtro. Could you shed some light on this please ...

What kind of Elites get pulled in by Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash (and maybe also FC - Dreadnought)?

I am trying to decide on wether or not Strongarm Bracers are worth it...
Thanks a bunch Nubtro. So my assumption from the video that Bloodshed is good for Rend is actually wrong. Seems to be area damage only that melts the mobs.
06/12/2014 04:50 AMPosted by Dethroy
Hey Nubtro. Could you shed some light on this please ...

What kind of Elites get pulled in by Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash (and maybe also FC - Dreadnought)?

I am trying to decide on wether or not Strongarm Bracers are worth it...


As far as which mobs actually move, most Champions (blues) aside from "heavy" mobs like Mallet Lords and such. The white minions of Elites (yellow) but not the actual Elite.

Basically any White-titled mob and most of the Blues. Yellows/Purples do not apply. It's still great for clearing the majority of the mobs you run across. Wrenching Smash and Strongarms work well with LeapQuake. Drop the quakes and pull all the mobs into the center of them for mass destruction.
06/12/2014 04:50 AMPosted by Dethroy
I am trying to decide on wether or not Strongarm Bracers are worth it...


Strongarms are definitely good bracers. Keep in mind that even though a mob may not physically be moved by your stomp, like a Rift Guardian, the debuff will still be applied to the mob and you will get the damage bonus.
1. Furious Charge alternates hands to deal damage. Had to retest because some people were doubting this. Next time simply equip a white weapon in your OH and use a skill twice in a row. If there´s a huge damage difference, the skill alternates damage.

2. Rend:
> displays a white damage number above monsters 53 frames after fury globe response (skill cost) / hitting the target.
> subsquent displayed ticks occur in 48 frame intervals and you always get 7 ticks total.
> the last displayed tick is logically always smaller than the others
> displayed tick sequence: 160%-160%-160%-160%-160%-160%-40% weapon damage (1000% total)
> to calculate dps from your displayed tick, multiplay the value by 1.25

3. Hexing Pants of Mr. Yan:
> Force Move into Rend = bonus
> Force Move into Furious Charge = bonus
> Whirlwind*** into Rend = bonus
> Furious Charge into Rend = penalty

***While dual-wielding, you have to force move more than one step to ensure WW locks the Yan bonus, otherwise you get the penalty.

4. Ruthless behaves like a debuff and isn´t snapshot, instead it activates when the monster is below 30% health. It´s a separate multiplicative damage bonus and the main reason why people see larger Rend and Earthquake "finishing" damage ticks.

06/12/2014 05:11 PMPosted by PrvtPiLe
06/12/2014 04:50 AMPosted by Dethroy
I am trying to decide on wether or not Strongarm Bracers are worth it...


Strongarms are definitely good bracers. Keep in mind that even though a mob may not physically be moved by your stomp, like a Rift Guardian, the debuff will still be applied to the mob and you will get the damage bonus.

I just retested Strongarm with Furious Charge and Wrenching Smash against a rare elite in Warrior´s Rest. The monster actually has to be forcefully moved, simply using a skill that is supposed to forcefully move isn´t enough.

06/13/2014 11:00 AMPosted by Fourty2DNAD3
Nubtro:

Barbs have at leat 2 skills that can move rare elites.

Harpoon or rage flip on ancient spear
Furious charge with dreadnaught enabled.

you can see in the link below, they discuss the "resistances" monster types have special resistances to CC effects:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/gameplay/game-difficulty#difficulty-scaling

The last 2 are most important

Rare 65% 0.5 50% 0.5 25% 65% 21
Boss 70% 0.5 50% 0.5 25% 65% 21

the 21 there is number of yards minimum required to do a kb.

If you use one of the above skills from far enough away you have a chance to do a kb to enable strong arm bracers

these resistances are also what makes http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/dovu-energy-trap so powerful, it pushes most stuns above the minimum threshold, allowing you to stun bosses, etc.

Hmm, Stomping from 21 yards away omg ._.
06/13/2014 10:22 AMPosted by Nubtro
I just retested Strongarm with Furious Charge and Wrenching Smash against a rare elite in Warrior´s Rest. The monster actually has to be forcefully moved, simply using a skill that is supposed to forcefully move isn´t enough.


Ah, thanks for correcting this Nubtro. I got the info from Kanjihack's thread without confirming it myself, whoops. My bad.

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12187048616?page=11#213
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12187048616?page=12#237

The dude seemed so damn sure I just took his word for it, haha.

Wait, so, I'm not sure I understand what that Fourty2DNAD3 quote is about. Does it mean that you can proc strongarms on, say, Rift Guardians if your kb ability crosses the kb threshold? And do you need special items to make this achievable e.g. Dovu Energy Trap? Cheers.

On a slightly unrelated note

SHARD OF HATE
> deals 300% weapon damage (even though my SoH says 234%, someone else should double check this)


It looks like my SoH also does 300% despite saying "247%". Similarly my Azurewrath aura does 26% damage/s instead of the advertised 31% and despite the potential range apparently being 30-40%
SHARD OF HATE
> deals 300% weapon damage (even though my SoH says 234%, someone else should double check this)


It looks like my SoH also does 300% despite saying "247%". Similarly my Azurewrath aura does 26% damage/s instead of the advertised 31% and despite the potential range apparently being 30-40%

Hmm did you dual-wield by chance? Cause mine deals 38% and says 38% but if you dual-wield, it depends on the active weapon. Just tested both Azu and Fjord Cutter out of curiosity.

Fjord Cutter
> 70% weapon dps per second (350% over 5 seconds)
> scales with total aps of that weapon, crit mod and cold skill bonus
> when dual-wielding, applies the average weapon damage of the weapon that activated it (which was swung)
> on attack proc (you don´t have to hit a target to activate it)
> bugged to be removed as soon as you swing with your other weapon

The last bit basically makes the proc useless.

Azurewrath
> deals displayed tooltip weapon dps per second
> when dual-wielding, applies the average weapon damage of the currently active weapon (it will change as soon as you swing with the other)
> scales with total aps of that weapon, crit mod and holy skill bonus
> the chance to freeze on hit is only rolled if you swing Azurewrath

This weird Holy DoT on a Cold skill bonus weapon probably has to be revised as well in the future.
Glad you wrote that about Azurewrath Nubtro, Ive often wondered about the relevance of the holy damage, a change to something useful and cold would be welcomed. Along with a mandatory socket.

Did a lot of testing with all cold weapons I could get my hand on in the past two weeks. Unfortunately the only good Azurewrath I had lacked decent DPS over my Utars Roar.

If I could get a decent Azurewrath drop, its high freeze percentage (up to 25% I think they can roll from memory), is very useful when combined with SS spam, which I can do on this build (second barb). Great for trash mitigation on T6 and below between EQ/leaps.

Very sad results about almost all other cold weapons I tested including SOH, Fjord Cutter, Rimeheart.

However, the Rimeheart is getting some great results when used with the monk shattered cold build. A mate and I got that going today on his monk and when tested in T6, its proc was exploding elites with next to no DPS. Interesting.

The skull that shoots out of the SOH when using SS looks like, and is just as effective, as a snowball. Your results are interesting so I might test it further. I couldnt see any effect either in numbers or target health bar dropping when testing it out this week.

Pretty much think if you want a good cold weapon, its a case of Azurewrath, Utars and/or SK.

Cheers
CC123
06/14/2014 01:43 AMPosted by Nubtro
Hmm did you dual-wield by chance?


I actually tried it with a range of dual-wielding and non-dual-wield. Hmmm. Perhaps there's something wrong with my equation I had set out.

I just tested again now and here's an example of what I'm getting.

Azurewrath dmg aura shows white numbers of 3576

my azurewrath dmg range = 1195 - 1667, has inherent AS of 1.4 with item itself having 5% IAS to equal 1.47 AS

my Str = 569, CHC = 5, CHD = 50, no +elements, no +skills, no passives or buffs, and no other legendary items

Am I missing something?

Also, I notice you put this up a while ago
> Fjord Cutter aura benefits from cold skill damage but for some reason it only got the full benefit of my Azurewrath and when I used the same bonus rare bracers I got a smaller benefit hmm.

Are you still finding this to be the case, because I can't seem to replicate it.

06/14/2014 01:43 AMPosted by Nubtro
This weird Holy DoT on a Cold skill bonus weapon probably has to be revised as well in the future.


lol, yes, I was thinking the same thing myself. Sometimes I wonder what they were thinking when they made some of the items... ^_^
06/14/2014 02:25 AMPosted by PrvtPiLe
06/14/2014 01:43 AMPosted by Nubtro
Hmm did you dual-wield by chance?


I actually tried it with a range of dual-wielding and non-dual-wield. Hmmm. Perhaps there's something wrong with my equation I had set out.

I just tested again now and here's an example of what I'm getting.

Azurewrath dmg aura shows white numbers of 3576

my azurewrath dmg range = 1195 - 1667, has inherent AS of 1.4 with item itself having 5% IAS to equal 1.47 AS

my Str = 569, CHC = 5, CHD = 50, no +elements, no +skills, no passives or buffs, and no other legendary items

Am I missing something?

x1.25

DoT damage is displayed every 48 frames (0.8 sec) not 60 frames (1 sec). To get dps you need to multiply it by 1.25. Actual DoT ticks more frequently and the smaller ticks can only be noticed by looking at monster health bar numbers.

100% weapon damage should be 14,424.7053825
3576 * 1.25 / 14,424.7053825 = 30.99% (in line with your Azu´s 31%)

I recommend using high strength, crit chance and crit damage values cause high numbers give you more accurate results when reverse calcing.

Also, I notice you put this up a while ago
> Fjord Cutter aura benefits from cold skill damage but for some reason it only got the full benefit of my Azurewrath and when I used the same bonus rare bracers I got a smaller benefit hmm.

Are you still finding this to be the case, because I can't seem to replicate it.

Back then I think I didn´t have knowledge of the whole aps and crit mod multipliers thing so the crit chance bonus on bracers, which slightly affected crit mod, probably messed up the calcs a bit.
06/14/2014 03:02 AMPosted by Nubtro
DoT damage is displayed every 48 frames (0.8 sec) not 60 frames (1 sec).


Ahhh, i had no idea. And that would explain why I was getting different numbers to you for my Fjord Cutter as well... Okay, thanks Nubtro!
Hey Nubtro, just if you were interested in the follow up to that Demon Machine item affix

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12187048616?page=13#245

So as far as I was able to tell it was a little different to the Death Watch Mantle, in that it changed damage each time you loaded to a new area, rather than snapshotting anything. Mmm, kind of interesting.
This thread needed a bump
Speaking of mechanics, can you explain when EarthQuake Skill damage is applied? I added in some EQ damage and was blown away by the results. It 'felt' similar to adding in Elite damage.

I've gone over the spreadsheet, but either i missed it or I don't understand enough yet to read it right. =)

I may just be speculation or some other change I made so I'd like to find out how valuable skill damage is for the EQ build.

Thanks.
06/24/2014 03:42 PMPosted by Tao
Speaking of mechanics, can you explain when EarthQuake Skill damage is applied? I added in some EQ damage and was blown away by the results. It 'felt' similar to adding in Elite damage.

I've gone over the spreadsheet, but either i missed it or I don't understand enough yet to read it right. =)

I may just be speculation or some other change I made so I'd like to find out how valuable skill damage is for the EQ build.

Thanks.

It´s in there, called "Skill Damage Bonuses on gear" in the "Damage Increased by Skills" group, alongside Battle Rage, Insanity, Maniac, Punish, Berserker Rage, Brawler, Harrington, Strongarm etc.

What you describe may have to do with the bonus being permanent while most other listed bonuses are situational, so a skill damage bonus feels stronger overall. But it stacks additively with the ones I listed above.

But yeah, given that Earthquake is the main damage dealer in a LeapQuake setup, getting the Quake bonus on shoulders and chest armor is advisable when minmaxing.
@Nubtro fyi. Your game mechanics spreedsheet mistakes with gem type in weapon increasing elite damage. The correct should be a flawless royal "diamond" in weapon that increases elite damage, not flawless royal topaz.

Thanks for your contribution to barb community.
(>^^)>

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