Barbarian game mechanics info (2.0.6)

Barbarian
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Do +% to elemental skills impact special affixes like Thunderfury's lightning proc?
04/06/2014 02:48 AMPosted by Nubtro
04/05/2014 06:30 AMPosted by Esm
Got a couple of questions about Earthquake.
Earthquake doesnt procc BR-Bloodshed right?
Does EQ damage update dynamically with Frenzy-Maniac, as in you start an EQ with 0 Maniac stacks and as you gain stacks the EQ ticks increases?

I´ve just tested both Avalanche and Earthquake and they are determined upon casting and stick with it. In other words, if you want the full benefit of Maniac, get max stacks before casting Quake.

I think the only skill that updates damage bonuses in real time is Call of the Ancients. Rend, WW and RLTW "snapshot" upon casting, even Slaughter snapshots upon transformation.

Now the unanswered portion, Quake + Bloodshed. It seems to work exactly like Rend - the blood explosion appears but no additional damage is dealt.

To complete the non-bloodshed group, I also tested Avalanche and even that one doesn´t deal Bloodshed damage despite showing the animation :/

For now, our 3 damage over time skills seem to be flagged not to proc Bloodshed. They do however seem to be able to trigger Slaughter.

04/06/2014 08:22 AMPosted by Agency
Do +% to elemental skills impact special affixes like Thunderfury's lightning proc?

The test I just did says no. I got the same damage range of the lightning blast with 45% lightning skill damage and without.

The Thunderfury lightning blast proc is not considered a lightning skill and doesn´t benefit from lightning skill damage bonus.

Note that this doesn´t mean every damage proc is the same.

EDIT: Tested more effects.
> Fjord Cutter aura benefits from cold skill damage but for some reason it only got the full benefit of my Azurewrath and when I used the same bonus rare bracers I got a smaller benefit hmm.
> Thundergod´s Vigor benefits from lightning skill damage, even from its own roll
> Odyn Son doesn´t benefit from lightning skill damage, just like Thunderfury
How does attack speed affect Avalanche and Earthquake damage (if at all)?

Also, your note on Whirlwind - Dust Devils says it generates 1.33 tornadoes every second. Does that mean tornado generation is independent of attack speed?

Finally, can you shed some light on the knockback value of different skills? Some tooltips specify, e.g. 5 yard KB, but others do not.
04/07/2014 04:16 PMPosted by attornyatlol
How does attack speed affect Avalanche and Earthquake damage (if at all)?

Also, your note on Whirlwind - Dust Devils says it generates 1.33 tornadoes every second. Does that mean tornado generation is independent of attack speed?

Finally, can you shed some light on the knockback value of different skills? Some tooltips specify, e.g. 5 yard KB, but others do not.

Good questions.

1. Quake, Avalanche and attack speed

Avalanche

>> lahar/tectonic/glacier perform 10 ticks in 169 frames (first 2 within 25 frames and then 18 per tick) and don´t scale with aps at all
= roughly 568% dmg per sec (1600% total)

>> snow-capped performs 3 ticks in 127 frames (7-60-60) and doesn´t scale with aps
= roughly 850% dmg per sec (1800% total)

>> volcano missile frequency is difficult to catch but the initial phase works similar to other runes

Earthquake
>> 23-24 frames until fury response, initial damage tick occurs 12 frames afterwards most of the time
sequence example:
23-13-12-6-6-11-12-6-7-11-6/6-12-12-6-6-12-6-6-11-13/6-6-12-5-6-12-12-6-7-12-6-7

12-12-6-6-12-12-6-6-12-6
6-12-12-6-6-12-6-6-12-12
6-6-12-6-6-12-12-6-6-12

"6" deals 1/80 of total
"12" deals 1/40 of total
crit roll every 30 frames

The answer is attack speed is irrelevant when using Earthquake and Avalanche.

2. Whirlwind Dust Devils

What makes it difficult is that I don´t have a definite visual clue when the tornado spawns so I just have to go by when I notice it appearing. It doesn´t help that the tornado animation is rather soft initially and that it only hits once. What I had to do to get any reasonable results was simply count the number of tornadoes over a period of time (let´s say 20 seconds) and got an average value of 45 frames per tornado.

There were no significant differences between various attack speeds.

3. Knockback distance values

I would say ask the devs about measurments, the ones in my spreadsheet are taken from tooltips. I think it´s incosequent from the devs to mention yards in some tooltips but not everywhere. For example Overpower mentions 9 yards but Revenge says "to nearby enemies".

From a researcher point of view, figuring out ranges is a nightmare in this game. I´ve attempted to do it for some skills in the past and took pics and painted on them and compared with known ranges etc. but I´d rather not have to work on that ever again.

I think the most important aspect of Knockback from the player´s side in RoS is tied to Strongarm Bracers and their damage buff. Leap Toppling Impact for example counts as knockback even though the tooltip doesn´t clearly state it ("send them hurtling away").

Hmm not sure if this was adjusted recently or whether I just didn´t test/write down, but all Seismic Slam runes trigger Strongarm, not just Shattered Ground, even though it´s the only rune that knocks "back" - all other knock "up".
04/08/2014 12:37 AMPosted by Nubtro
I think the most important aspect of Knockback from the player´s side in RoS is tied to Strongarm Bracers and their damage buff. Leap Toppling Impact for example counts as knockback even though the tooltip doesn´t clearly state it ("send them hurtling away").

Hmm not sure if this was adjusted recently or whether I just didn´t test/write down, but all Seismic Slam runes trigger Strongarm, not just Shattered Ground, even though it´s the only rune that knocks "back" - all other knock "up".

Maybe it's the "knockback" word on the Strongarm that is misleading and in game it works with any effect that force the mobs to move in a way or another, will it be backward, toward or in the air.
Did you tried Strongarm with effects that pull mobs to you and does it works?
04/08/2014 12:37 AMPosted by Nubtro
Hmm not sure if this was adjusted recently or whether I just didn´t test/write down, but all Seismic Slam runes trigger Strongarm, not just Shattered Ground, even though it´s the only rune that knocks "back" - all other knock "up".

I'm fairly certain that all knockback, knock up, and pulls will trigger Strongarm. Essentially, anything that makes the monster's feet leave the ground. This even includes Furious Charge (all runes) even though the tooltip does not mention any KB/KU/pull.

I'm more curious about are the implications of this chart: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/game/guide/gameplay/game-difficulty#monster-resistances

From my experience, Seismic Slam - Shattered Ground will KB Champions, Minions and some Super-Uniques (blues, whites accompanying a yellow, and unique named purples -- let's just call them all "blues" for short). However, it will not KB Rares or Bosses (yellows or "Boss" purples -- let's just call them all "yellows" for short). So even though the tooltip for Shattered Ground says "5 yards", it seems, according to my reading of the chart, that the actual KB value must be somewhere between 10 and 20.

(Note that no other Seismic Slam rune will KU blues or yellows. I am not sure whether blues or yellows can be KU at all, but if they can, it would follow that the KU value is <10.)

I've also read that, for Ancient Spear - Harpoon / Rage Flip, blues and yellows have a minimum pull distance of 1/2 and 3/4 of the screen (respectively) -- meaning that it will only pull the monster if it is at least that far away. This minimum distance does not seem to apply, however, for skills like Ground Stomp - Wrenching Smash or Leap - Call of Arreat (both of which will, in my anecdotal experience, sometimes pull blues but sometimes not).

Essentially, I would like to know which skills can KB/KU/pull: (1) normal monsters vs. (2) blue/minions/purples vs. (3) yellows/bosses. If that chart is accurate, knowing the KB value of each skill would tell me that. (I also want to better understand the mechanics behind the various pulling skills.)
Strongarm Bracers tested and confirmed to work after:
- Cleave Scattering Blast knockback
- Seismic Slam Shattered Ground knockback
- Seismic Slam Stagger, Rumble, Strength from Earth and Permafrost knockup
- Whirlwind Hurricane pull
- Ancient Spear Ranseur knockback
- Ancient Spear Harpoon and Rage Flip drag
- Ground Stomp Wrenching Smash pull
- Leap Toppling Impact knockback
- Leap Call of Arreat pull
- Sprint Gangway knockback
- Revenge Grudge
- Furious Charge (all runes) knockback
- Avalanche Snow-Capped Mountain push
- Earthquake Cave-In pull

So you get the 25% damage bonus for every effect that forcefully changes the location of a monster indeed. Thanks for the idea, guys.

---

As for the circumstances under which knockbacks and pulls affect monsters, I´ll look into it in the near future when I have more time. I know that some large monsters like Golgors aren´t affected. I also know that the devs flagged Hurricane during beta not to affect rares and champs, it might be on a skill-by-skill basis.

Shattered Ground just now affected a Skeleton champion pack but didn´t affect an Imp rare for example and also Dataminer (unique).. Also, that list or more likely the yard values in it might be outdated. Many of the knockup and knocback changes are fairly recent.
This should be stickied :) why not make a general thread asking, and we will keep it bumped? Or ask the greens to relay the request, I'm sure you know some.
04/08/2014 09:24 AMPosted by Nubtro
As for the circumstances under which knockbacks and pulls affect monsters, I´ll look into it in the near future when I have more time. I know that some large monsters like Golgors aren´t affected. I also know that the devs flagged Hurricane during beta not to affect rares and champs, it might be on a skill-by-skill basis.

Shattered Ground just now affected a Skeleton champion pack but didn´t affect an Imp rare for example and also Dataminer (unique).. Also, that list or more likely the yard values in it might be outdated. Many of the knockup and knocback changes are fairly recent.


I use Leap - Call of Arreat a lot and have noticed inconsistent results as to whether it will pull blues or purples (like Dataminer). Sometimes the same blues will be pulled on one cast but not on the other. Some purples seem to be immune, others are as easy to pull as whites. I just wish we could look at the way the skills are coded to see exactly how it works...
@ Nubtro

If my information is right, this patch (09-04-14) removed the previous 50% ritical hit damage cap on "pets", something which would greatly affect the effectiveness of "call of the ancients".. (theo and taskar anyone? :)

Iam hearing rumors about they critting for over 10mil damage now.. Maybe worth looking into ?

Also damage against elites now stacks additively...

It really surprises me how they can let these changes go unannounced in the patch-log.
Thanks for the testing Nubtro.
So the Halcyon's Ascent amulet (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/halcyons-ascent) may be working too, which could be nice for Strongarm Bracers players. That would be a 6-8 sec additionnal burst at 20-30% more damage.

Det0x do you have a link to the patch changes ? I'm an Euro player and the changes aren't in function yet for me, when clicking on the link to the latest "patch changes" on my B.net client I have the old one.
All in all Blizzard uses to do a good job with patch notes, they are much more documentated than most games I may have played. In many games the patch notes looks like "We made changes!!" ... ok thanks ... But they clearly aren't perfect and there are often little surprises hidden inside the patch.
Edit: I found the patch note on the US main page: https://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/13532431/patch-204-now-live-4-8-2014
Nice work.

+Elite damage% modifier is now additive. (2.0.4)
@Nubtro: Do you know if Animosity and Templar's Inspire buff fury gains with Reaper's Wraps legendary? I know Animosity increases Reaper's Wraps significantly since the +20 fury increases it but from my testing it appears to actually do more. I keep getting around 45 fury per health globe which would appear to be the case.
I´m onto it, I´ll probably need another day cause I just came back home after a long day with a 4 hour court hearing and some meetings outta town, need some recreational monster slaying time first :)

Thanks for the reports and for keeping track of undocumented changes, I really appreciate it.

•Philosophy •Many skills that spend Fury feel great, but when it comes time to generate Fury the single-target options don't feel meaty compared to the generators that can hit more than one target at a time. As a result, we are increasing the potency of those single-target generators to be more competitive.

This almost brought a tear to my eye but then I saw just base damage increases, not the main reason why we feel primary skills are useless - their generation function. But OK, there are a lot of changes and fixes (like adding monster kill requirements to certain easy bounties) that I´ve been suggesting all beta long. They are slowly getting their act together.

On another note, LMAO I wasted like 5 flawless royal gems 3 days ago to craft Cain´s Set and I´m almost gem-broke now and the rolls were not even ideal XD

EDIT:

Confirming that elite damage stacks additively now.

Also confirming that Ancients now apply your crit damage and zap already proved it makes them broken, which is sad considering it was one of my suggestions for improving them back in the beta days when they were useless.

Clobber 215%
Onslaught 215% + 2*50% reverberations
Punish 215%
Instigation 215%
Pulverize 215% main + 70% heatwave
Sidearm 155%
Berserk 155%
Vanguard 155%
Smite 155%
Maniac 155%
Mighty Throw 270.0067-270.0088%
101,253 / 37,500 = 270.008%
102,063 / 37,800 = 270.00794%
102,873 / 38,100 = 270.00787%
103,683 / 38,400 = 270.00781%
104,493 / 38,700 = 270.00775%
105,303 / 39,000 = 270.00769%
106,113 / 39,300 = 270.00763%
106,923 / 39,600 = 270.00756%
... blizztroll ... why something like base*1.4595 and not just *1.46???
Ricochet 185%
Throwing Hammer 185%
Stupefy 185%
Balanced Weapon 185%

EDIT 2:

04/09/2014 12:55 PMPosted by tekkazerox
@Nubtro: Do you know if Animosity and Templar's Inspire buff fury gains with Reaper's Wraps legendary? I know Animosity increases Reaper's Wraps significantly since the +20 fury increases it but from my testing it appears to actually do more. I keep getting around 45 fury per health globe which would appear to be the case.

Yep they do. I just utilized the new increased drop rate of the mat and insanity fire ancients to get the bracers so that I could test.

Animosity in particular effectively boosts reaper gains multiple times -> from the max fury bonus and bonus to generation, it grants 5.5-6.6 fury by itself per globe depending on the effect roll.
Two more undocumented changes that I stumbled upon:

(1) Demon/Beast/Human damage bonus sources are also additive together now, just like Elite damage bonus. Makes it much easier to calculate these bonuses than before:
monster type multiplier (current) = (1 + sum of bonuses / 100)
monster type multiplier (previous) = (1 + (1 - (1 - bonus#1/100) * (1 - bonus#2/100)))

Note that the second formula also applied to elite damage bonus in the past - the change to elite damage calculation was the reason I retested the monster type bonus. By the way, A5 "reapers" are not demons.

(2) Area Damage itself no longer benefits from elemental skill damage bonuses and elite damage bonuses. That means it simply deals x% of the main hit and that value is not boosted again by the bonuses like before.

04/09/2014 02:19 AMPosted by Migosha
Thanks for the testing Nubtro.
So the Halcyon's Ascent amulet (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/item/halcyons-ascent) may be working too, which could be nice for Strongarm Bracers players. That would be a 6-8 sec additionnal burst at 20-30% more damage.

This was a pretty smart idea and I happened to stumble upon this item yesterday again (I salvaged my first). It does indeed work, even this uncontrollable jumping effect from Halcyon activates the Strongarm damage bonus against the target.
Nub's,

Are Fire Walkers fire damage affected by +Fire "skills" dmg% ?

I'm assuming no since it's not a skill.

AND, thanks man for taking the time to answer these technical question.
what about Crusader compendium?

T_T
Very informative thread. Agree on the sticky. I would be curious if knock-around affects from minions such as Clones from Haunt of Vaxo or even CotA invoke extra damage from Strongarms.
A note to add for Ancient Spear: It appears to be immune to missile dampening. Weapon throw will result in slow axes, Spear will remain at full speed for each throw into the field.
Along the lines of the discussion with Stun affects to the Strongarm Bracers : Ancient Parthan Defenders : Gain 10pct damage reduction per enemy stunned within 25 yards. NVM - I understand now.

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