Thorns too OP?

Crusader
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i get killed so fast and i use both skills and they survive and i die once iron skin on cd got be gear to not just skills all im saying!
it just changes your damage/the damage they take - not your toughness, so if you're too squishy you will not/barely get to use this t6. change build and gear to as defensive as you can and let thorns do the killing - maybe try lower torment till it works for you

and hope you dont run into anything that mainly deals damage without meleeing you^^
04/08/2014 03:04 PMPosted by Rawsugar
it just changes your damage/the damage they take - not your toughness, so if you're too squishy you will not/barely get to use this t6. change build and gear to as defensive as you can and let thorns do the killing - maybe try lower torment till it works for you

and hope you dont run into anything that mainly deals damage without meleeing you^^


thorns works on range stuff too ^^
Would someone be kind enough to explain to me what exactly thorns is? Is it just damage that mobs take when they hit you? Or are you guys just talking about reflect rune on Iron Skin?

Is it something you need to spec for?

I'm about a week old Diablo Player, so any clarification would be awesome. :D

Signed,
A newbie who is loving RoS and his Crusader.
04/08/2014 03:25 PMPosted by Sloan
Would someone be kind enough to explain to me what exactly thorns is? Is it just damage that mobs take when they hit you? Or are you guys just talking about reflect rune on Iron Skin?

Is it something you need to spec for?

Thorns damage is a character's reflect damage. You will see gear that rolls stats such as "Melee and ranged attackers take 1500 damage" - this is Thorns damage. Our passive skill Iron Maiden was recently buffed, and the amount of Thorns damage it grants now scales with Torment difficulty level. Thorns, as it stands, does not crit and is not affected by many multiplicative modifiers, save for Sanguinary Vambraces, a pair of bracers that have a 1000% Thorns proc.

However, the Crusader rune Iron Skin->Reflective Skin increases our Thorns damage by 200% and allows it to crit. My assumption is that this is calculated before the increase from Iron Maiden, which is calculated before the increase from Torment difficulty.

Long story short, put on Iron Maiden and pop Reflective Skin and you're critting upwards of 400m on T6, 100m on T3, etc. It's totally imbalanced.
04/08/2014 03:25 PMPosted by Sloan
Would someone be kind enough to explain to me what exactly thorns is? Is it just damage that mobs take when they hit you? Or are you guys just talking about reflect rune on Iron Skin?

Is it something you need to spec for?

I'm about a week old Diablo Player, so any clarification would be awesome. :D

Signed,
A newbie who is loving RoS and his Crusader.


Any sort of damage reflection in Diablo, no matter the source, is referred to as "Thorns". It's a call back to Diablo 2, when the Paladin class had an ability called "Thorns" that created an aura that reflected damage.
500k...woopeeeeeeeeee
hw exactly does thorn build work
Thanks a bunch for the explanations @Mog and @Elamdri.
I just picked up a Spiker... now I might have to work on a Thorns build.. Lol.
04/08/2014 01:45 PMPosted by TerrorTorrey


oh no, i have to wait 20 seconds for Champ rally to be up. to slaughter all things on t6

Lol please don't tell me you can Handle the white mobs without them up. I highly doubt you can burst two consecutive champ packs And please don't tell me the champ packs are going to wait for you separately . Your gear definitely won't be able to blow through anything like wiz and definitely can't stand in and face tank even with 15% reduce damage innate passive.
04/08/2014 04:02 PMPosted by XxTmakxX
04/08/2014 01:45 PMPosted by TerrorTorrey


oh no, i have to wait 20 seconds for Champ rally to be up. to slaughter all things on t6

Lol please don't tell me you can Handle the white mobs without them up. I highly doubt you can burst two consecutive champ packs And please don't tell me the champ packs are going to wait for you separately . Your gear definitely won't be able to blow through anything like wiz and definitely can't stand in and face tank even with 15% reduce damage innate passive.


i was doing t5 just fine before the patch, heres a video...
http://youtu.be/Y-DevqqnAdU

if you think i cant do t6 just fine now, ill just make another when i get home.

for someone who using the word "definitely" that much. you aren't even showing us your diablo profile, so how can i even assume you know what your even talking bout?
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the Iron Maiden passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.
04/08/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/crusader/passive/iron-maiden"]Iron Maiden[/url] passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


Everyone saw this coming, but the fact that you are redesigning thorns to be viable (again?) is a good sign of direction. Thank you very much for the reply.
04/08/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/crusader/passive/iron-maiden"]Iron Maiden[/url] passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


Could you at the same time as the fix for this give us a bone with Wrath generators and either have them generate more Wrath or make them more damaging? Way too much time is still spent completely tapped out while other classes are able to continuously spam abilities or do damage with decent generators.
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the Iron Maiden passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


Great, it was needed.

Now what about pets ? Should we all level our WDs or is it geting fixed ?
04/08/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/crusader/passive/iron-maiden"]Iron Maiden[/url] passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


Good to know...and speaking of hotfixes, any word on fixing the sweep attack - blazing sweep rune dot that's been bugged since RoS launch? :*(

It's ticking for far less than it should be.
04/08/2014 03:40 PMPosted by Ashes
hw exactly does thorn build work


look at my crusader. this is the build. its still didn't update. look maybe in an hour.
04/08/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/crusader/passive/iron-maiden"]Iron Maiden[/url] passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


Ive actually done some testing, the iron maiden passive isnt actually causing the MASSIVE hits. On t6 with just iron maiden and a few items with thorns(540k total) I was averaging 9million every hit. Only when I popped the ability IRON SKIN - REFLECTIVE SKIN was I able to do MASSIVE damage to the tune of 183 million.

I honestly just think its a bug with Iron skin and not a bug with Thorns..Unless of course 9million is considered a huge amount of t6...

I even started a post on reddit about it and it seems that someone came through with a pretty solid explanation using the stats I had provided. His post, math, and explanation can be found here http://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/22k9yf/the_power_of_new_thorns/cgnoi1w
04/08/2014 05:50 PMPosted by Nevalistis
So, before things get too crazy, I've got some information on what's going on with the [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/crusader/passive/iron-maiden"]Iron Maiden[/url] passive and want to make sure you all know what's up before relying too heavily on this skill.

There is a bug with Iron Maiden where it is currently (erroneously) scaling with monster difficulty, which means at higher difficulties it's reaching some extremely high values. This is not intended, and we have plans to completely redesign this passive in a future patch. We want to give you a heads up so that you don't spend your resources building exclusively around this skill when we're fairly certain it's going to change.

We do plan on hotfixing this passive in the very near future to lower amounts. However, as with most hotfixes of this nature, the tooltip will be incorrect even after the hotfix is live.


noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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