*12* Reasons To Double Monster Legendary Droprates P2

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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12372997233

Original thread capped out. Still a lot of decent feedback, in between the flames so let's keep it going.

Even with the minor buff to Rift droprates, I still think it holds true. I still have far too many extended gaps between drops myself, and don't even talk to me about class sets :|.

OP:

Title. This may be a little long, but the reasons are nicely highlighted if you want to skip ahead.

Intro.

The longer I play, the less I want to log on. Yes, ROS is fun. A lot of fun. A big step up from D3V in every way.

However, when I play a common trend emerges.

- I wait for a legendary until I start to get tetchy.
- A legendary drops.
- It is generally bad. When it's good, it's generally has a bad set of stats, meaning a lot of souls for enchanting.
- I think to myself 'ah bugger, I'm not going to see another for at least 2 hours'.
Then...I generally log off.

Now I'm known in the Clan for being an unlucky person with my drops. But...I'm not the worst off. Not by a long shot.

On the other hand, doing some of the...less legitimate farming styles (T6 Core Runs, which now feel like they've been nerfed) yielded at least 1 per hour, generally 1 every 30 mins. And...I could not stop playing. I didn't get all that much amazing gear, but at least I felt that, yes, the next one was just around the corner.

So what am I trying to say here?
The baseline for legendaries should be one about every 45mins. An hour at the outside. This is about the rate that can/could be earned from efficient splitfarming and the other slightly exploitative ways of playing the game.

I believe the best way to do this would be by a flatout massive drop to monster droprates (coupled with a slight nerf to chest and bag droprates, bringing everything to a similar level).

'But wait!!!' you say. 'Wouldn't this mean that everyone just gets geared in a fortnight and then quits?'.

Well, think of it this way.
1) People will play less when fully geared, but quit outright when they are getting nowhere.

I've seen this in my clan recently, and observed it in my own behaviour. When I'm on a bad streak, I don't want to push through. I want to do something else. When a bad streak can last 45 minutes, it's easy to push through. When it lasts the average length of two feature films, it's more difficult.

2) There are about 200-300 items per class.

Give or take. And assuming you don't get multiple drops, it would take you at least 100+ hours to be fully geared even if you were obscenely lucky, and even then...

3) Multiple drops are fine.

Due to the sheer variance possible in a single item in D3, even with enchanting you can probably always find a slightly better version of the item you already have.

4) There are 6 classes.

It wasn't hard to get really geared in D2, but I always had other characters to play. Even if you only do 3 of the classes, that's a massive amount of playtime.

5) I'm more excited to see chests than elites.

And this is sad. When I see elites they generally drop nothing of interest. Most of my legendaries come from chests. When I see a bunch of white chests I'm happy. When I see elites I'm like 'meh'.

6) Blizzard are not going to fix the bad legendaries.

They've said so. They are not going back to give them affixes. Of course, if they did, this would be a much smaller issue. So they aren't. The best we can hope for is a better chance of finding the ones we are after. I've seen *1* class set item drop since I started ROS (almost 100 hours in now). 1. And it wasn't for the class I was playing.

7) New legendaries are on the way.

Even if people get geared to the gills in a few months - Blizzard have already said they are working on new legendaries for the next content patch.

8) Ladders are on the way.

Also, we have Ladders coming, meaning that people who want a fresh start can get it, and even fully geared out people have something to do.

9) This is a Diablo game.

And that's basically it there. There has always been some grind in Diablo, but it was a rewarding one. Doing boss runs in D2, I could always almost be guaranteed a few uniques and sets in an hour. And that made it fun - the knowledge that the next cool item was literally just around the corner.

I never once got the feeling that I get now which is 'ugh, I just got ANOTHER Ivory Tower. May as well log for the evening, because it's going to be ages until I see the next item'.

10) Chest and Checkpoint Farming are still king.

All people want to seem to do at the moment is grind checkpoint monsters or chests. Why? Because rather than 2.5 hours per legendary, you can get them at a much more rewarding rate. Even if it's like being paid a 6 figure salary for eating cardboard, at least you can afford nice stuff.

Grinding Rifts these days is like being paid cardboard.

11) Ditto splitfarming.

See above. This is probably the most 'fun' efficient way to play the game. And it's not all that much fun. The problem with splitfarming is that while it does have it's appeal, it dismantles the idea of party synergy and places all emphasis on clearing speed.

12) I'm burning out.

And a final addition. Today I logged on. Farmed a few rifts. Got nothing. Farmed a Checkpoint monster for a while and got a Soul. Got tired of it. Logged out.

I like ROS. I like it a lot. Most of what I hated about D3V is gone. But in doing so, they've also laid bare some of the problems with BOA.

I've maintained from the beginning that BOA will only work with rewarding droprates and a near bottomless list of cool loot to find. And we aren't there yet. Not by a long shot.

And so - that's my piece.
Thoughts?

EDIT: And another idea. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12329933301#15
D.D.F.M.A tags. Make it happen!


As with the last thread, let's keep this calm, constructive and drama free :)
/birdhugs.

EDIT 2: And yet another idea. P.D.F.M Tags! http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12472477236
Also - while I know that everyone will fall somewhere on this issue (and that may not be in agreement with me) - remember that just because *you* had a lucky streak on drops does not mean that everyone is fine.
Yeah, I laugh pretty hard when I see people who have been extremely lucky tell others that they need to "work for it", "get good", "learn to play" or that they're "doing it wrong".

Then there's the people who say "You want everything for free in the first week?".

As a friend of mine said the other day, the reason the drop rates are so noticeably bad is because white mobs had their drop rates significantly lowered.

For example:

If a monster has a 50% chance to drop an item, and there's a 1% chance for that item to be a legendary, then reducing the drop chance of that item (say from 50% to 25%) inadvertently affects the legendary drop rate too.

In all honesty, I place a fair amount of blame on the people that said the F&F drop rates were too high... which eventually lead to what we have now. If they had been able to play the current state of the game and realised just how unforgiving the multiple layers of RNG can be, then I think they wouldn't have complained about the drop rate (at least not as much).
2 things:

1.) It's early. Every other legendary I find I either equip on one of my characters or save thinking "hmm... I might run a fire build... ect" Once all my classes are decently geared more and more of my legendaries will start turning into souls and before I know it I bet I have tons of souls sitting around just like I did brimstones.

2.) I really think that forgotten souls should drop more, not legendaries. I need/want to re-roll some of the legendaries I have (oh my god Shard of hate roll a freaking socket!!!!!) Either guaranteed FS drops from torment rift bosses or have them drop some more from elites. Either way this would help a ton and I wouldn't worry about getting SO many legendaries.
Game needs buffs.

x600-800% resplend chest
x200-300% normal mobs
x400-500% elites
x1000-2000% rift bosses

This is absolutely minimum.
And all that regards on difficulty level (normal should have 1/10, t1 drop and t6 should have x6 t1 drop)

You think thats high number? 1000% out of 0.1% = 10% . It is still LOW.

All hands on your ideas OP!
04/07/2014 06:44 AMPosted by Belze
x600-800% resplend chest
x200-300% normal mobs
x400-500% elites
x1000-2000% rift bosses


That strikes me as a little excessive for T1.

I'd be more hoping for:
x200% resplend chest.
x100% normal mobs.
x100% elites.
x500% Rift Bosses.

See - right here Blizzard? This is where we need mods.
Double it!
then Double it again and again!, until the rates allow continuous upgrades, supplies of crafting materials for making new items and sets, gold acquisition improves, etc.
One thing for sure this is not an acceptable loot return for time spent or value play.
More issues-
The chests should never drop legendary items...monsters only.
Chests should drop leg crafting mats for all the different items, basic crafting mats, gold, gems, and all the plans for jeweler and blacksmith.
Crafting---Gem requirements are too high for the value of the crafted items. lower gems requirements or remove them completely--let us actually craft.
Gold---based on acquisition compared to costing of crafting and gem upgrades, gold needs to be buffed at least 10X the current return.
The items and gold affect no one other than the individual player. Let us play and get items and gold, be powerful for each character.
With good acquisition rates many will keep playing, play more different classes through the game and increase longevity by enjoying the different sets, builds and general feeling that they are really getting a good return on their play time.
The other side is very bad for the game and this company.
Funeral soon!
04/07/2014 07:52 AMPosted by Blackarrows
Double it!
then Double it again and again!, until the rates allow continuous upgrades, supplies of crafting materials for making new items and sets, gold acquisition improves, etc.
One thing for sure this is not an acceptable loot return for time spent or value play.
More issues-
The chests should never drop legendary items...monsters only.
Chests should drop leg crafting mats for all the different items, basic crafting mats, gold, gems, and all the plans for jeweler and blacksmith.
Crafting---Gem requirements are too high for the value of the crafted items. lower gems requirements or remove them completely--let us actually craft.
Gold---based on acquisition compared to costing of crafting and gem upgrades, gold needs to be buffed at least 10X the current return.
The items and gold affect no one other than the individual player. Let us play and get items and gold, be powerful for each character.
With good acquisition rates many will keep playing, play more different classes through the game and increase longevity by enjoying the different sets, builds and general feeling that they are really getting a good return on their play time.
The other side is very bad for the game and this company.
Funeral soon!


I don't want the drop rates buffed to the point where I'm tripping over legendary items and mats.

I think the only change needed at this point is a method to work toward a chosen item, or the ability to increase the odds of a specific type of legendary dropping (IE Wand or Ring).
04/07/2014 08:06 AMPosted by Orrion
I don't want the drop rates buffed to the point where I'm tripping over legendary items and mats.


Naturally. But I don't want the droprates to be as low as they potentially are currently on a streak of bad RNG. Far, far too many people in my clan are straight up burning out - they've found a few decent items and are now stuck on a treadmill looking for decent legs or set items.

04/07/2014 08:06 AMPosted by Orrion
I think the only change needed at this point is a method to work toward a chosen item, or the ability to increase the odds of a specific type of legendary dropping (IE Wand or Ring).


Isn't this gambling?
04/07/2014 08:55 AMPosted by Starbird
Naturally. But I don't want the droprates to be as low as they potentially are currently on a streak of bad RNG. Far, far too many people in my clan are straight up burning out - they've found a few decent items and are now stuck on a treadmill looking for decent legs or set items.


Yeah, I think a lot of people auto assume that those calling for legendary drop increases are casual players. I put in AT LEAST 4 hours per day. Weekends are spent mostly farming rifts. Most of the gear I've picked up that is wearable was from T6 chest farming, including both set items, shield and weapon I'm wearing.

It gets pretty boring grinding 4-5 rifts and getting no legendary drops, and then you get a legendary 1-2 hours in and it's either complete and utter trash (life%, Vitality, health regen on an amulet), or something for a WD that I don't even have at level 1, or even better - a legendary enchantress relic with a STR roll instead of an int roll - BECAUSE THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE.

The reason chest farming was done is because for the amount of time spent, you had a reasonable chance of getting something you could wear. As it stands, I too am getting burnt out. Went 5 rifts without a legendary last night, then went through 470ish shards and no legendary. This has been a recurring theme since I first hit 70. I've never had one of those magical strings of legendary drops others (random forum posters) like to claim they have gotten, or get frequently, outside of chest farming - and even then the drop rates were a 1-3 an hour while chest farming.
04/07/2014 08:55 AMPosted by Starbird


Isn't this gambling?


No, it isn't. For one thing, Kadala doesn't have "Wand" as an option, and the costs on amulets and weapons are silly.
I really hope blizzard responds to one of these threads as i personally believe that there is an issue in regards to the drop rate and rolls in general.

RoS is definitely better than D3V but itemization is still a lingering issue. For the past few days i have been focusing solely on chest runs and i must say that legs drop more frequently through chests than whites or elites. Today alone i was able to farm about 20 odd legs (170% MF) which included mainly rings and weapons. Some of them dropped repetitively and were a downer. Now to the main concern i have, none of the items i got were in any way useful to me and most of them were converted to souls straight away. I have kept some because one of the stat could be rerolled but we all knw how much resource consuming that is. You have to understand that the 20+ legs i got today was a chore as i did not enjoy it one bit. But i did it just coz it is the most efficient way as of yet. Blizzard might force us to do bounties or rifts by nerfing the chest drops but i assure you it is not the answer to the problem at hand.

Most of you might think that the problem is either in the drop rates or the rolling of stats but i personally believe that they are mere symptoms. The real problem i think is that Blizzard has a certain mind set on how they think the game should be played. And based on that the drops and everything else is decided. I think they want people to play for 6 months to 1 year to achieve their items.

6 Months is a long time if RNG is not on your side. Some people have already gotten most of the items they desired and even fewer got the stats they were looking for in those items. As the OP suggested that people might start quitting out of frustration which is very probable as i for one am considering the reward (satisfaction) for playing at all.

The solution to this problem is very simple, Blizzard has to understand that the players should need to get the items they want on a very frequent basis and by doing things that are base line fun. If i were receiving an item from my wish list on a daily basis or once in 2 days i would enjoy playing. But to receive an item in 2 weeks with terrible rolls is just heartbreaking.
04/07/2014 09:31 AMPosted by Malicious
It gets pretty boring grinding 4-5 rifts and getting no legendary drops, and then you get a legendary 1-2 hours in and it's either complete and utter trash (life%, Vitality, health regen on an amulet), or something for a WD that I don't even have at level 1, or even better - a legendary enchantress relic with a STR roll instead of an int roll - BECAUSE THAT MAKES TOTAL SENSE.


I think this really gets to the heart of the problem (at least for me), and it's consistently what the drooling lemmings dropping the same boorish one-liner's tend to flat out ignore.

Wanting meaningful gear progression =/= being handed legendaries.
Having farmed the majority of my gear from CoA prior to the chest nerf, I agree with everything said here. Almost none of the design choices concerning drop rate seemed to have been made with BoA in mind. The current drop rate would be fine in an action RPG with trading enabled. We need meaningful drop buffs all around. I play a lot and I'm barely getting anything out of it now that the chest runs are gone. I am burning out because I am not getting what I put in. Many of the guys I play with share this sentiment.

I like a lot of what's been done in RoS but I would like to see some tweaking on the monster drop rate and possibly Kadala.
These threads shouldn't be taken seriously until at least another month or two down the line to see how characters look at that point.

We're two weeks into the game. People who are expecting "to be rewarded" every time they play should consider other games. That's actually what paragon levels are for.
Another misconception I hear repeatedly echoed is that, if legendary drop rates are upped, people will get stuff and then stop playing.

My crusader has stuff. I put in a lot of time to get stuff. I want better stuff, always. I want multiple different types of items for different builds. Right now I'm running a lightning focused crusader, so I would very much like the Odin belt or w/e it is to go with my Schaeffers Hammer. I would also like a better rolled Schaeffers, a Maximus, a couple different shields to play with would be great. Some set items would be great. How about some set items for the thorns focused build, that would be awesome. I'd like to play with different spec combinations, so having different rings / amulets with various affixes will be needed.

I'd also like to play my other classes and take advantage of the various build choices they have. With the way the current loot system works, this will not happen, because I'll be stuck sitting on my crusader for the next year with my fingers crossed just HOPING some of this stuff will fall my way.

It's absurd.
I think the biggest problem right now is... if you get a legendary to drop, you just know (by and large) it will be hours before you see another one.
Monsters also have too much HP. ~800% HP for T1 monsters (scaling to, I think ~8000% HP in T6) makes killing monsters in higher difficulties unrewarding because it takes so long.

It also doesn't help that monster density is inconsistent, so you spend a lot of time trying to find the monsters, then spend forever killing the boring damage sponges, and then nothing drops because the drop chance is terrible.
04/07/2014 09:56 AMPosted by Enzo
I think the biggest problem right now is... if you get a legendary to drop, you just know (by and large) it will be hours before you see another one.


This problem is also compounded by the fact that most of what drops is utter garbage.

Either a better filter needs to go in place to make things more usable, or we need to get more stuff to compensate for the over abundance of crap that drops.

Edit: Like I said earlier, there's nothing better than spending my Sunday farming for hours to eventually have a Mojo drop on my crusader (I don't even have a level 1 WD). Then, farming continues and I get an Enchantress Relic with a STR roll a couple hours after.
04/07/2014 09:56 AMPosted by Enzo
I think the biggest problem right now is... if you get a legendary to drop, you just know (by and large) it will be hours before you see another one.


I think the majority of us know this. However, they are not likely to do a complete overhaul of the current legendaries. Thus, asking for buffed drop rates from monsters and Kadala helps to combat the vast variability within the current itemization.

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