hey, they added that "hotfix"

Demon Hunter
I know this topic is old, but have a look

Demon Hunter
  • Sharpshooter
  • This passive is now properly consumed by critical hits dealt by Companion or Sentry.*
  • http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12427063132#1

    Can I get the complete list that DOESN'T reset Sharpshooter?

    Last time I checked,
      Caltrops
    • Jagged Spike
    was the only one, that doesn't proc and did not reset sharpshooter.
    (My mistake, the skill also reset. This puts all our skills reset with Sharpshooter)

    Our "pets" now consume our passive skill bonus, so I assume it should proc as well, right? I haven't tested, but from my experience they don't. We had a similar sustuation with Sentry "fire" and Chains. Stuff that is directly related to the player will proc all on hit bonuses as well as reset sharpshooter. Stuff that didn't did nothing.

    Right now, it seems to me that the devs are focusing on damage and not skills.

    They buffed all of our heavy damage dealer and faster resource generators (result in a higher damage exchange) into fire. But our best skills are still physical and lighting, which created some build diversity if they haven't added many poison, cold and lighting into our generators.

    They added chd back to our Sentry and remove the +50% cap from all pets in this game. Then they add shsh proc into pets so they benefit from the chc but with a reset. Pets getting 100% chc uptime is bug, you can't argue for a remedy. But these pets don't gain most of our other self-buffs, so why should it gain Sharpshooter and takes the control off my hands.

    We all know Sentry cannot be setup all at the same time, which they should and redesign to work like Spike Traps: max carry up to 3, can be set without delay, but only start "firing" after 3-6 seconds. In the current model, instead of allowing us to stack up our damage if we had a pet, we end up losing that bonus while the pets help us prepare for the boom.

    It may not be in the devs favor to re-code these pets. Pets basically take our chc, and shsh adds chc, so if they don't reset it grows to 100%. If pets don't benefit from our chc, they will never be effected by shsh and thus not need that "reset" to control players abusing the bonus unintentionally. Giving them more than +50% chd was the wrong move. It neutralize gearing with pets in mind to the same standard as everything else.

    Stack chc/chd and the game will be easy.

    I was hoping that the *new game* would move away from chd but we can't. The devs won't let that happen, instead they added a cap on aps and lower the value back to i61 *7% max and left chd as is except they reduced it on weapons. But if we look at the total value combined with paragon points it is the same max value w/o skills.

    Why couldn't the game focus less on must have high critical hits and yellow numbers on the screen?

    If the devs think more hp = more challenge they should add an extra affix slot and make health link and extra health (as well as avenger) roll more often instead of the scale up hp with with difficulty selection. There are no surprise when a player can easily check how will he/she might do by looking at how much increase the mob has. If the bonus to hp is randomly added, it will break how players prepare in their build(s).

    The solution to too much monster health isn't more critical hit damage...
    Am I the only one who thought the Sentry-only style was intensely boring and not worth missing?

    I even liked Sentries. Just not builds dedicated to abusing Sharpshooter/Sentry.
    I read that entire post and I still don't understand what your point is. They nerfed pets interacting with sharpshooter. So what ? Pets are still insanely strong. And I totally disagree with the statement that they have "neutralized gearing with pets in mind." You can still gear with pets in mind. See thasker and theo, marauders 4 piece, and garwulf cloak.
    You gotta check it again, Jagged Spikes resets Sharpshooter, even though it doesn't proc. It will also ping you on reflect damage, but not reflect any damage back - so it's a good indicator if a monster is reflecting I guess.

    I agree, they definitely messed up by making Pets/Sentry playing style gear generally the same as many other builds now(except with different clothes). Gearing for it now follows the same general template just with different items.

    Instead of larger monster health, Immunities should be the answer, imo. The disparity between trash health and elite health makes sense, but the shear amount of both doesn't - however I think Torment levels are better tuned than vanilla monster power ever was. Immunities/insane resistances need to be more widespread, though(instead of being just isolated instances - such as Act V events).
    04/15/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Lucidity
    I read that entire post and I still don't understand what your point is. They nerfed pets interacting with sharpshooter. So what ? Pets are still insanely strong. And I totally disagree with the statement that they have "neutralized gearing with pets in mind." You can still gear with pets in mind. See thasker and theo, marauders 4 piece, and garwulf cloak.


    That's why you're not understanding what he meant by the gearing. Of course you put on some Taskers and Marauders and Garwulf, but the issue is that the affixes sought after on those pieces is exactly or very similar to many other builds, just different items. It's Trifecta syndrom again.

    You see, previously with a Sentry build, it required high dex, attack speed, min/max average. It didn't look for CHD at all, and in vanilla, even CHC was not a prime stat. In RoS CHC became important, but CHD wasn't because it was capped at 50%, meaning the gearing focus was generally similar to how it was before(unique).

    What this does, is that it sort of hurts the theorycraft, because we'll be all trying to look for the exact same stuff(affixes) just on a different "item".

    on a side note, I can atleast take personal solace in the fact that Impale at least requires slight variation.
    04/15/2014 01:55 PMPosted by ActionKungfu
    04/15/2014 01:42 PMPosted by Lucidity
    I read that entire post and I still don't understand what your point is. They nerfed pets interacting with sharpshooter. So what ? Pets are still insanely strong. And I totally disagree with the statement that they have "neutralized gearing with pets in mind." You can still gear with pets in mind. See thasker and theo, marauders 4 piece, and garwulf cloak.


    That's why you're not understanding what he meant by the gearing. Of course you put on some Taskers and Marauders and Garwulf, but the issue is that the affixes sought after on those pieces is exactly or very similar to many other builds, just different items. It's Trifecta syndrom again.

    You see, previously with a Sentry build, it required high dex, attack speed, min/max average. It didn't look for CHD at all, and in vanilla, even CHC was not a prime stat. In RoS CHC became important, but CHD wasn't because it was capped at 50%, meaning the gearing focus was generally similar to how it was before(unique).

    What this does, is that it sort of hurts the theorycraft, because we'll be all trying to look for the exact same stuff(affixes) just on a different "item".

    on a side note, I can atleast take personal solace in the fact that Impale at least requires slight variation.


    Ok, but point me to why this is a problem. The alternative is to cap crit damage at 50% but allow the funky interaction between sharpshooter and pets to where they crit 100% of the time. But if we did that, other pet classes like witchdoctors who can't leverage sharpshooter with their pets will be back to being under-powered. Unless you want to make a distinction between DH pets and WD pets, which would just add a bunch of unneeded complexity.
    <span class="truncated">...</span>

    That's why you're not understanding what he meant by the gearing. Of course you put on some Taskers and Marauders and Garwulf, but the issue is that the affixes sought after on those pieces is exactly or very similar to many other builds, just different items. It's Trifecta syndrom again.

    You see, previously with a Sentry build, it required high dex, attack speed, min/max average. It didn't look for CHD at all, and in vanilla, even CHC was not a prime stat. In RoS CHC became important, but CHD wasn't because it was capped at 50%, meaning the gearing focus was generally similar to how it was before(unique).

    What this does, is that it sort of hurts the theorycraft, because we'll be all trying to look for the exact same stuff(affixes) just on a different "item".

    on a side note, I can atleast take personal solace in the fact that Impale at least requires slight variation.


    Ok, but point me to why this is a problem. The alternative is to cap crit damage at 50% but allow the funky interaction between sharpshooter and pets to where they crit 100% of the time. But if we did that, other pet classes like witchdoctors who can't leverage sharpshooter with their pets will be back to being under-powered. Unless you want to make a distinction between DH pets and WD pets, which would just add a bunch of unneeded complexity.


    What exactly is your definition of unneeded complexity?

    If your argument is against complexity, then I don't know what to tell you. Complexity to me is only "unneeded" if it doesn't advance the layers of the game, only remain on the surface, or detract from going deeper, as a direct result of being too "complex". Personally, in gaming, advancing layers is the real complexity(and is very much needed).

    Looking for items other than Trifecta, to gear a Sentry enforced build, personally didn't seem too complex(if at all?) and infact added layers to this game's itemization. Especially when the previous mindset was Trifecta or brim.
    04/15/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Banaritaz
    Am I the only one who thought the Sentry-only style was intensely boring and not worth missing?

    No, you're not alone.
    Instead of larger monster health, Immunities should be the answer, imo.

    No.

    In one of the side areas of Battlefields of Eternity, you'll find a named demon that's Fire Immune. I first encountered it on my secondary DH and was basically forced to let my pet, Vengeance, and Templar kill it off because, you guessed it, I chose to build Fire. The only other thing I could've done to counter this was to get out of combat one way or another and swap my skills around to ones that didn't compliment my gear.

    No thanks. Especially on a mass scale. All such would accomplish is really just force people back into trifecta only as it'd be the more universally friendly means of buffing damage. More legitimately difficult mobs can be better achieved through smarter AI and increasing their move sets. Let's shoot for that instead of just making skills useless just because.
    ...

    Ok, but point me to why this is a problem. The alternative is to cap crit damage at 50% but allow the funky interaction between sharpshooter and pets to where they crit 100% of the time. But if we did that, other pet classes like witchdoctors who can't leverage sharpshooter with their pets will be back to being under-powered. Unless you want to make a distinction between DH pets and WD pets, which would just add a bunch of unneeded complexity.


    What exactly is your definition of unneeded complexity?

    If your argument is against complexity, then I don't know what to tell you. Complexity to me is only "unneeded" if it doesn't advance the layers of the game, only remain on the surface, or detract from going deeper, as a direct result of being too "complex". Personally, in gaming, advancing layers is the real complexity(and is very much needed).

    Looking for items other than Trifecta, to gear a Sentry enforced build, personally didn't seem too complex(if at all?) and infact added layers to this game's itemization. Especially when the previous mindset was Trifecta or brim.


    I think you misunderstood what I said.

    If we were to go back to the old system, we would allow sentries and pets to crit without resetting sharpshooter but put back the 50% CHD ceiling. This would allow you to gear by maxing dex/+ damage and ignore crit chance and crit damage. The reason why this works is because we have access to sharpshooter, which allows our pets to crit 100% of the time. In effect, it boosts all our pets' damage by 50% because they will always crit thanks to sharpshooter.

    But witchdoctors do not have access to sharpshooter. They can't leverage something like sharpshooter to boost their pets' damage by 50%, so if we were to go back to the old system, we would be nerfing Witch doctors. The way around that would be to differentiate how crit damage works between DH pets and WD pets. Put the 50% CHD ceiling in place for DH pets because they have sharpshooter, but remove the 50% CHD ceiling for WD pets because they don't. We would then be creating two different sets of rules that pets would have to follow. That's what I mean by unneeded complexity. Pets should all follow the same ruleset.
    04/15/2014 02:40 PMPosted by Saidosha
    04/15/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Banaritaz
    Am I the only one who thought the Sentry-only style was intensely boring and not worth missing?

    No, you're not alone.
    Instead of larger monster health, Immunities should be the answer, imo.

    No.

    In one of the side areas of Battlefields of Eternity, you'll find a named demon that's Fire Immune. I first encountered it on my secondary DH and was basically forced to let my pet, Vengeance, and Templar kill it off because, you guessed it, I chose to build Fire. The only other thing I could've done to counter this was to get out of combat one way or another and swap my skills around to ones that didn't compliment my gear.

    No thanks. Especially on a mass scale. All such would accomplish is really just force people back into trifecta only as it'd be the more universally friendly means of buffing damage. More legitimately difficult mobs can be better achieved through smarter AI and increasing their move sets. Let's shoot for that instead of just making skills useless just because.


    You make a great point.

    I feel adding immunities would be better, but your point about players just ignoring elementals and going plain is a solid one. Maybe in addition to immunities, there's weaknesses, too.

    <span class="truncated">...</span>

    What exactly is your definition of unneeded complexity?

    If your argument is against complexity, then I don't know what to tell you. Complexity to me is only "unneeded" if it doesn't advance the layers of the game, only remain on the surface, or detract from going deeper, as a direct result of being too "complex". Personally, in gaming, advancing layers is the real complexity(and is very much needed).

    Looking for items other than Trifecta, to gear a Sentry enforced build, personally didn't seem too complex(if at all?) and infact added layers to this game's itemization. Especially when the previous mindset was Trifecta or brim.


    I think you misunderstood what I said.

    If we were to go back to the old system, we would allow sentries and pets to crit without resetting sharpshooter but put back the 50% CHD ceiling. This would allow you to gear by maxing dex/+ damage and ignore crit chance and crit damage. The reason why this works is because we have access to sharpshooter, which allows our pets to crit 100% of the time. In effect, it boosts all our pets' damage by 50% because they will always crit thanks to sharpshooter.

    But witchdoctors do not have access to sharpshooter. They can't leverage something like sharpshooter to boost their pets' damage by 50%, so if we were to go back to the old system, we would be nerfing Witch doctors. The way around that would be to differentiate how crit damage works between DH pets and WD pets. Put the 50% CHD ceiling in place for DH pets because they have sharpshooter, but remove the 50% CHD ceiling for WD pets because they don't. We would then be creating two different sets of rules that pets would have to follow. That's what I mean by unneeded complexity. Pets should all follow the same ruleset.


    I don't really see the problem with pets functioning differently between classes. It doesn't come off as unneeded complexity.

    The way pets work in this game doesn't seem like a core mechanic, this game is built around. So pets functioning varied between classes looks to be ok.

    There's already functions between classes that differ. Pets don't have to be an exception. You learn DH pets/companions, then you learn WD pets.
    04/15/2014 02:40 PMPosted by Saidosha
    In one of the side areas of Battlefields of Eternity, you'll find a named demon that's Fire Immune. I first encountered it on my secondary DH and was basically forced to let my pet, Vengeance, and Templar kill it off because, you guessed it, I chose to build Fire. The only other thing I could've done to counter this was to get out of combat one way or another and swap my skills around to ones that didn't compliment my gear.

    I can see your problem, but what about those fallen angels

    It used to be reduce same element damage to 10% (don't know the exact value right now), now they don't reduce that much. Immunity to damage type shouldn't exist but a resistance like that should. And it should come when they redesign the mob affix.

    Mob resistance shouldn't be 100% reduced, neither should any of these items reduce damage like they are doing right now...
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/xephirian-amulet (*lightning)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-star-of-azkaranth (*fire)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/maras-kaleidoscope (*poison)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/countess-julias-cameo (*arcane)
    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/talisman-of-aranoch (*cold)

    Azkaranth Amulet replace the 4pc Blackthornes but instead of

    You are immune to Desecrator, Molten, and Plagued

    You are immune to Desecrator, Molten, Mortar, Fire Chain, Fire Ball, Spit Fire, Meteor, etc.

    So a single slot amulet is much better than a 4pc Armor bonus...
    04/15/2014 02:46 PMPosted by Lucidity
    But witchdoctors do not have access to sharpshooter. They can't leverage something like sharpshooter to boost their pets' damage by 50%


    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/witch-doctor/passive/midnight-feast

    okay, and I'm sure there are others I'm not aware of, but if we just look at the passive, they already have one that can add damage by 50%.

    That wasn't my point. I was just disturb by the fact that the devs favor chd over every other affix in this game. They have chd in mind but do not like to have it crt all the time (not a problem) but chd is like a accuracy check: if you didn't crt you missed an attack or did not land a clear hit.

    Without stacking chd we can still crt more than 10m, so I don't see the problem without chd, it just take a bit longer to gear because most of those items are very specific.
    Do I have problems with a set underperforming? Yes. Do I have problems with those amulets? No.

    Personally, I think the Xeph amulet is best for a DH. Some are hung up on Arcane Sentries being the bane of our existence, but they're only really a threat if Vortex and/or Waller is involved. However, I can't really think of any locations where damage mobs deliver is solely of one element. So, pure immunity is highly unlikely for anyone wearing one of those items. Plus getting one that's functional for offensive purposes is a matter of RNG on top of overcoming the unique tiering that makes Azkaranth the rarest of the lot.

    But if we want to delve deeper into why I feel immunity for monsters is bad, but passable for players, it lies largely in the limitation of the number of skills we can set. We lack the room for that "Just in case..." skill you could've maybe gotten away with in D2. But let's not pretend they'd be as efficient even if we could. People'll just farm areas with the least amount of mobs they'd be ineffective against. And part of why the Hammerdin was so popular in D2 was because so very few mobs were actually immune to the Magic type damage.

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