I'm falling sleep while doing rifts

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04/21/2014 04:16 PMPosted by Enolate
04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
I have some questions about this if you guys want to talk about it a little more. I've seen some feedback in other threads about Nephalem Rifts making players “sleepy” (or not exciting enough), but I'd like to focus on that topic a bit more with you. Before I do, though, I'd like to point out that there is some feedback about monster density in Rifts that we're definitely aware of. So, density aside, what are some things that would make Rifts more exciting to you?

Please feel free to free-form your answer. If you’re not sure where to begin, though, I’ve provided some questions below.

  • Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?
  • Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?
  • Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?
  • What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?


I want to point out that because they are fully randomized there will be some Rifts that are more exciting than others, but we definitely want them to feel engaging and rewarding. We'd love to hear what you think would improve them in that way.


No one played the past Diablo franchises for "challenge" people played it for loot and interactions. Now with trade gone the interactions between players are severely limited.

The game needs to have internal design consistency. If you remove trade then an ability to make player to acquire all items in game must be in place, and random drop is not good enough.

If you really plan to make Rifts the final farming place in game. Then there is something you can do.

1. increase mob density, nothing's worse than running around to FIND mobs instead of them coming to you.
2. if a player wants to craft they need to go create their own game and devote hours farming outside of rift for legendary crafting mats. Make Rift mobs of similar type have a small chance to drop legendary crafting mats the same as their counter parts in bounty's and world rare spawns.
3. Rift boss, with increasing difficulty, should have increased rewards, if not better item drops then at least make Blood shards drop more.
4. Certain rift bosses should have their unique loot tables, for example rift Zulle should have higher chance to drop tal rasha. Perhaps you can make normal boss Zulle drop some items that when used in rift ensure a Rift Zulle spawns. This is the "internal consistency" part of the design. You give player the ability, with some difficulties, to acquire specific items they need. Since we are on the topic of giving player the means to acquire specific items, why not revamp the hellfire ring mechanic? Instead of keys, you get specific mobs dropping a key, that will allow you to spawn a boss, in rift or other places, an uber boss that will have their unique loot tables and higher chance of dropping what the player wants. THey can choose what key to use as a summoning devise for specific sets, or slot items.

5. This is pertain to the entire game. I'm sure the designer of the game is fully aware how broken the itemization in game is. Your promises from past videos and even posted in your development journal is not fufilled. Legendaries are not legendary enough, 90% of them are + 6 random affixes. What good is that? Player is no longer exited when seeing an orange beam. The first thing that comes to their mind is "oh how crap the attribute's gonna roll this time?" A scenario your spokes person specifically addressed in past publicity videos to remove, which you've failed completely. Furthermore, gems in weapons, buff other gem or rework all gems, make them contribute equally to damage and thus diversify builds.

6. is there really a point to Rift keys?

7. player limit. I understand this cannot be changed because blizzard want the game to work on consoles as well, but by all that's good. Increase the player limit per game. Some of us have more than 3 friends.

If you have time have a read at my previous highly rated post that was features on community front page for about a week. The thread listed more detailed feedbacks to the game design problems:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12426602982?page=1


THIS x 1000
Seriously, I was stoked to start "Adventure mode" now it just seems redundant and repetitive
Imps no more Imps

A random But high chance to spawn two Rift Guardians

Rift Guardians should have a much higher chance to drop Forgotten Souls, you should never go 3,4,5 Rifts in a row with no soul dropping

Monsters found in Sanctuary that drop craft materials and/or Key Wardens

Create More Rift Guardians, we dont want to fight Cold Snap or Zoltan Kulle 6 times in a row, there should be at least 15-20 diff Rift Guardians
everyone seems to focus on mob density as the problem but why? the mobs never drop anything good. imagine having to wade through double or triple the trash without any hope of getting something good.

1. some areas are not dense enough.

2.not enough boss mobs

3.pylons seem to always be located in places either at the end of map or in areas where there is no one to fight.

4.legendary's are very infrequent at times.seem to be more timer based than Rng.If a person can farm fast and effective they should not feel throttled back from drops. it does not feel like doing rifts is much more rewarding than anything else. there are so many bad legendary's and so many different legendary's that finding the one you want seems too random and way to far between. no goal other than just the same randomness the rest of the game offers.

5. gold items are not exciting to anyone that can do a rift. and I MEAN NO ONE. no one wants to fight boss after boss for hours to only have crafting materials. you can get those anywhere. for anyone that can do a rift gold drops are not upgrades. they are nothing but trash.there should be blood shard drops , or large amounts of coin.forgotten souls should also have a chance of dropping from any thing. not just the rift warden.

6.Rifts feel too linear. fill the bar up and fight the end boss and get your forgotten soul.

with all the nerfs to the game it be nice to have some real tangible buffs to the fun and loot aspects.
Some rift layouts just have terrible monster spread. I frequently run into a set that's just imps and grotesques that drop more imps; I have to spend my time, as a barbarian, running after the little guys one at a time to get the guardian to spawn.
I want to feel like I'm exploring the whole thing for reward, not because I'm trying to just find enough things to kill.

It seems like the moment you see the map, you know what kind of rift it's going to be regardless of any supposed density variation. Prison? Blood marshes? Great! Elites everywhere, crazy five pack combo storms going off. Desolate sands? Westmarch? Corvus? Looks like a long slog to the doorway.

I'd love it if there were more unusual things in the rift. Events, mini-bosses, more than just the one rift guardian.

Or, for that matter, if rifts had modifiers like the maps in Torchlight 2 / PoE - give the areas affixes so they play differently, whether it's boosting an element, changing healing or movement, giving white monsters affixes, whatever.
1. diablo walks the rift

2. more goblin packs, these are fun. i can play 5+ hours a day and maybe see one pack a day -_- how do you think the casuals feel?

3. density

4. rift only loot? you're onto something with cache only loot

5. timed event for a super large rift only chest, guaranteed legendary rare spawn rate

6. increase chance of class specific set items in rifts or off the boss

7. find a certain special mob on each level encouraging us to scope out each level. this guy could have increase chance of legendary. or maybe increase chance of legendary if you kill each special mob on each level of that rift.

8. some sort of buff for the person who opens the rift, people always stand around waiting for someone else to do it and i'm the first one to use up all my frags.
Remove BoA to give motivation for playing the game. Mechanics wise the game is fun, but looking forward to loot is meh. Once I find all the gear I want then I have to grind to find that same impossible gear with better stats. Motivation killer right there.

Also increase shards for increasing difficulty. Rings, ammies, weps are pretty much the only non set item gear for a lot of builds. I hope to see more/better rewards for higher T level.
04/21/2014 06:42 PMPosted by Bug


random side quests with appropriate rewards.

unique monsters that can drop the leg craft mats randomly spawning somewhere.

pylon of experience

A nice phat chest next to the exit stone


That guy gets it, especially the leg craft monster and chest at the exit stone
04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
I have some questions about this if you guys want to talk about it a little more. I've seen some feedback in other threads about Nephalem Rifts making players “sleepy” (or not exciting enough), but I'd like to focus on that topic a bit more with you. Before I do, though, I'd like to point out that there is some feedback about monster density in Rifts that we're definitely aware of. So, density aside, what are some things that would make Rifts more exciting to you?

Please feel free to free-form your answer. If you’re not sure where to begin, though, I’ve provided some questions below.

  • Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?
  • Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?
  • Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?
  • What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?


I want to point out that because they are fully randomized there will be some Rifts that are more exciting than others, but we definitely want them to feel engaging and rewarding. We'd love to hear what you think would improve them in that way.


To me it really depends on what levels spawn. Blood Marsh and the large spawn of the cursed hold tend to have much more elite packs, that helps make those levels funner but i like both of those levels design and the blood marsh music. On the other hand many levels were never fun for me, and rifts are random so you could get a whole bunch of levels that are boring as hell, then to add to it you could get incredibly low density.
to me when I am in a game that reminds me of act 1, 2, 3, 4 just seem annoying since I've played thesee exact same maps 100x times, it just seems boring I honestly want to start a new game... the best thing that could be done with these maps that us players who were here pre-patch are some type of change.. adding unicorns is really just meh..

I know blizz has great imagination, if not most of us wouldn't give a sh**

Sam
I'm going to extend the posting limit on this thread so everyone can still leave their thoughts on the matter. Thanks again for all of the feedback, and I'm really looking forward to reading more.
First of all sorry for my english.

My opinion:

1- I am playing 4h or more each day and not see the cow lvl. Do it more easy to show.

2- More mobs density and more elites in rifts. (I love when i join the act1 prison map and is full of elite. Do it in rest of maps.

3- Increase the mobs needed for 100% if you want but final boss must drop 1 legendary always. The 99% of time legendarys dont upgrade but we will be expecting "luck" with the boss drop.

4- For public games put 2 options please. One for bouinties and other for rifts. I hate join a lot of games and people is doing bounties when i want rifts.

5- Simbolic reward for who open rift. Lot of times people wait and never open. This can change if who open get always a soul, a better gem or more blood coins...

6- Add a minim dps/toughness for each torment level. Is frustrating join a t3 rift and share it with 180k/dps players. And if they dont join alone you cant kick.

Sorry for my english again :)
1) I love the Atmosphere, i like the dark ones especially. But one thing that could be added on maps is a random weather condition, rain, fog... can maps have rain? i don't remember.

2) I hate maps that have mobs that run away when you get close to them. There is a script on them, got close? run 200meters, then you have to chase that single mob. As a melee it's very annoying. Particularly Succubus and the Act2 Insects, when they are together.
Also, knockbacks, oh i hate mobs that knockback you.

2) Rifts are supposed to be fun, and a lot of them don't have the mob density / elite spawn. A good Rift is the Act1 prison (Warden map) I think there are 3 possible versions of this map, small, medium and large, and the large one is the best Rift map ever. A bad Rift map is the one before Malthael, bad mob density terrible map design with a lot of curves that lead to nowhere and those portals that freeze you for 5 seconds, very annoying.

3) More unique and rare maps? What could be more exciting than finding a rare rift ? I always wanted a map full of elites.
Wow, I'm glad you are involved in this topic Blizzard, here are some suggestions.

I think there should be some unique content in rifts, as in brand new areas and doodads that don't exist in the base game. Runic Games added a new environment to its endgame of Torchlight 2 after release.
That realm you enter through a portal on a monster's head in Pandemonium is an example of crazy new levels you could put into rifts. It was an amazing concept.

Although I do enjoy how the randomization works uniquely in rifts, I'd add new variations of existing levels as well. I did notice a couple "blocks" (randomized playable level chunks) that didn't exist in the story mode, but a few brand new variations would be really awesome.

Here's an idea. Why not add a new type of interactive object to rifts exclusively? Like a demon well, or something, that...when you click on it, something insane happens, like a demon invasion, or two bosses appear. That would make things very interesting, but also leave it to us to control.

I was a bit disappointed when you guys mentioned "random weather," and there...wasn't really random weather. We'd like (aside from fog, light distance, and color filters) snow storms, hurricanes, heavy rain, etc. Allow us to tone it down in the options if it impacts performance too much. Maybe you could test out disastrous storms like ice storms, meteor showers, etc., and see if it works out.

Even further out there, maybe make alternative objectives, than to just simply kill tons of stuff. Like one rift (or level) would be an arena! Survive the waves!

Music. The music in the expansion (only) has a lot more "beats" to the songs than most of the vanilla game. Like you do with WoW, maybe add more songs into the game through patches, that keep us awake and entertained.

Also, I really love how you've improved crafting so much! But it feels it could use more "tiers" of quality armor. Pieces that are super rare and cost much more materials to make. Things to strive for to keep the end-game going even longer. Certain materials only obtained through higher-tiered rifts would be interesting.

Unrelated to rifts, I think you should add even more powerful gear to the game, maybe a higher quality tier like "artifacts," which would have lots of affixes, and be ultra powerful, but very rare. Also, more legendaries with more unique affixes and things is always better as well.

Wow, looks like many of my ideas are shared by others, go people!
Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?

Atmosphere as in music and level art? I like all of the tilesets. Different effects, such as a red tint or slightly darker shading can add visual interest. Rare and special music would be something interesting. Imagine a rare rift that played the Diablo 1 town theme.

The most exciting rifts from an atmospheric view, though, are the "special" rifts. For instance, seeing ponies or goblins is a treat. Having more of these random occurrences would be motivating. As is, the levels are all just the base Diablo levels with randomized creatures. It's better than running the same levels again and again, but not exciting from a conceptual perspective.

Going back to the Diablo 1 town theme, why not special rift only maps? One of the major weaknesses of Diablo 3 is that many maps are not randomly generated. Bringing in new tilesets would allow truly randomly generated rifts.

Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?

Yes, the rare goblin and pony maps are exciting simply because they are rare and different. Other than that, it's just killing the same monsters again and again. The most boring are trash monsters, like the little purple phantom demons from Khule's levels.

Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?

As others have mentioned, special events inside rifts, such as cursed chests and shrines, would make things more interesting. More semi-rare, rare, and ultra-rare random events always spices things up.

Going back to my thoughts on randomly generated maps, part of what makes Diablo map design good is that there are special hand crafted areas inside randomly generated maps. If you had a pool of hand crafted areas that could plug into the randomized maps, that would increase interest. All of the house events in Westmarch Commons is an example, as are the different well events in The Old Road.

Likewise, such areas and events which are goal and team oriented will increase focus and excitement. It's not enough to just make things random. People must be engaged. Hence the reason cursed chests and shrines are more interesting than just killing monsters: they give a goal, a challenge.

What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?

How much time is spent doing nothing. If I'm spending a lot of time walking around a big empty map not fighting anything interesting, not doing anything interesting, it is boring. People are saying "elite pack density", however that's because the only interesting thing to do in rifts right now is to kill elite packs.

There are more ways to make things interesting than just increasing elite pack density, though that is the easiest way to solve the problem.
04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku


Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?
Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?
Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?
What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?


- Actually, the atmosphere doesn't really change how I feel, unless it's really dark which makes me kind of sad because I can't see anything really.

- High density makes it epic but I'm not sure how lesser geared character would deal with this.

- Some affixes really feel unfair for some classes.

- New bosses that feel epic (like Mal'thael) and actually offer challenge and incites thought.. Rather than just unloading DPS, rinse and repeat. That seems boring and repetitive.

- Rifts are boring. Full stop. Killing monsters with the end goal killing a big monster is pretty much all it is. In fact I would rather Rifts be a way to access Bounties because Bounties are so much more fun and seem to be a better goal to work towards. After finishing a Rift, unlock Bounty act of choice. After completing 5 bounties, unlock epic boss.
True is that - that rifts are good as endgame content. Increased loot idea, randomized mobs and boss is the solid state, but in general, when you keep doing rifts over and over - it quickly turns boring. I mean really boring. It's not dynamic as it has to be. The end boss is like no challenge for you - they are slow, low damage input, just the time-consuming one big mob with free loot.

I would like to see MORE content as rifts, and I mean - total different than rifts. It's few weeks after relaese and I feel bored right now, my excitation felt down after i started to melt ALL legendaries to the blacksmith and I feel like not playing this game if after 3 days of playing I can't find new upgrades for my gear - yeah I know rng thing, but it's keep you away from playing when your progress holds in place and you feel like doing nothing.

Legendary/set items and unique mats - great idea, it makes some new content for you, seeking for that forgotten bosses but let's face the fact - it's a fun for like a hour, and then you don't do it anymore in your life.
Bounties - that could be possibly fun If you won't get good legendary items from normal - it's just rush thing for easy legendaries.

Sorry for a bit of offtopic, but in speaking of boring, it all comes to mind, the "endgame" content.

You asked about engaging monster - yes, there is one mob called Barbed Lurkers and they are always challenging - their damage output is insane in comparision to other mobs if they are elite packs.

My ideas:
Random and challenging events in Rifts, time events, special events, search events, like:
-pick 3 out of 5 available rift quests, for example "Find and kill demon named [somename]", complet in less than 5 minutes, kill rift guardian without using CC abilities, clear every level of rifts - and some rewards that make you want to keep playing it

And the most - personaly I think that Torment difficultes should reward with different loot tiers - for now the basic concept is play Torment level for the highest level that you one-shot mobs, so lower Torment levels are most rewarding cause you can keep fast clear time with some loot increase - no need to jump for torment 4 or 5 or event 6, stick to your 2-3 and play safe - that total no point. It feels like you have no progress at all, you have no reason to play Torment 5 hardcore, cause the reward is too low to pick up the risk. Torment items should be separated for example T1-2, T3-4, T5-6 to keep you progressing and make a think if it's a time to jump for higher Torment difficulty or not.
04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
I have some questions about this if you guys want to talk about it a little more. I've seen some feedback in other threads about Nephalem Rifts making players “sleepy” (or not exciting enough), but I'd like to focus on that topic a bit more with you. Before I do, though, I'd like to point out that there is some feedback about monster density in Rifts that we're definitely aware of. So, density aside, what are some things that would make Rifts more exciting to you?

Please feel free to free-form your answer. If you’re not sure where to begin, though, I’ve provided some questions below.

  • Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?
  • Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?
  • Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?
  • What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?


I want to point out that because they are fully randomized there will be some Rifts that are more exciting than others, but we definitely want them to feel engaging and rewarding. We'd love to hear what you think would improve them in that way.


1 - I do like the atmosphere, the darker ones the better with creeping monsters
2 - Not much complain about monster type, I've encountered from Teddy bear to Morlu, so that's fine to me.
3 - I'd love to see events in the Rift, maybe extra dimensional travelers? D2/D1 reference easter egg or cameo or something. Cursed chest/Shrine wouldn't be a bad things, harder and with better rewards
4 - Denser rift in term of monster has definitely made a difference. Pylon are definitely fun, channeling and conduit are a blast "if" you have something to kill near.
04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
Does the atmosphere in a Rift influence how exciting or not exciting it feels? If yes, what Rift environments feel exciting to you? And which ones don’t?


I like rifts in general, but that annoying fog/haze that makes it look washed out in addition to obscuring everything is frustrating to play in. Dark is one thing, but the washed out looking rifts are just a drag to play in. Going through entire maps that look like Ghom farted all over it != pleasing.

04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
Do certain monster groups feel more or less engaging?


I'll take anything other than Act 4 and Act 5 monsters. The insane amount of CC those monsters bring with them is beyond frustrating to the point I may actually leave the game and remake just to start another rift sooner instead of having to slog through a map or multiple maps where I'm literally a pinball.

Oh, and this is before you factor in the CC affixes from elites, which is another annoyance.

04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
Are there any mechanics from other parts of the game that you feel would make Rifts feel more exciting? If yes, what are those mechanics?


Random cursed chests and/or shrines would be nice. They're a nice break from the monotony of mindless monster slaying and the spawned monsters can add slightly to the rift percentage bar.

Speaking of that bar, why does it only display your percentage complete when mousing over it? It had the percentage always displayed during the FaF beta. It's somewhat annoying to have to mouse over it to see the percentage (since the devs still haven't learned how to create a UI that accurately displays a percentage in visual form). The UI is supposed to be "at a glance" informative. :)

04/21/2014 04:06 PMPosted by Grimiku
What's the most noticeable difference between a “boring” Rift and an “exciting” Rift for you?


Um, having monsters to kill?

Boring = maps with monsters about once every 20-30 seconds apart.

Exciting = maps with not much downtime between monsters.

And then there's location, location, location.

Boring = Yet another Pandemonium Fortress map. Seriously, it's the most chosen map out of them all and is ultra restrictive, has the most irritating layouts, and lends to the worst visual experience when it comes to haze. Having half of my maps as Pandemonium Fortress = snoozefest.

Exciting = Any map that meets the following criteria: Open (room to at least maneuver), lots of monsters, no haze or gas cloud effect, and maps thare are not Pandemonium Fortress based. Light or dark matters little to me, though the darkest of your maps could use a bit more light, but that's a personal opinion as others may disagree on the darkest maps thing.

It isn't helping any that players go several rifts without so much as a single legendary whatsoever still. Why is it that with BoA in place we have drop rates that are significantly less than Diablo 2 had with open trade? Fighting through boredom (few monters) and/or frustration (tons of CC/haze) to get nothing is burning us out very quickly.
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