Tyriddik's State of the Monk 2.0.4

Monk
First I would like to briefly introduce myself. I am Tyriddik, a 28yo software engineering major and long time gamer. I have not wrote many post to forums in the past so this may not be the best read. Also being a programmer I don’t care much for english grammar, so I apologise for bad grammar. I writing this post to let others know my opinion of the monk in the current patch 2.0.4. I am the type of poster or never reads others post and if anything I say or question has already been addressed I again apologise.

First I would like to say to all those saying “Monks don’t belong over t4” that I have done t6 rifts and t6 Ubers with a party as their tank(Palming/Pull monk) and felt very useful. Gear isn’t even a huge problem while tanking. I will link my builds for both for others to explore.

T6 Rifts - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bSPfVk!XYbT!ZYa.ab
T6 Ubers - http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bSdjVQ!XYbc!ZYZcab

Now then even though I have done t6 I still feel as if monks are missing out on somethings. I have to spam shields from MoH to stay alive in Ubers and in rifts I feel that the only real damage is coming from EP. I believe Blizzards don’t want monks to be a burst class and I feel increasing the damage of their abilities directly would not be the answer. I feel a better answer would be to increase spirit regen letting them use their abilities more often. Monks currently have several ways to increase their spirit across a several different abilities, but in most cases you have to sacrifice damage and toughness to do so. If monks had a less options to increase their spirit regen but they was more potent than the current version could be a decent fix.

More on monks damage, its low. Without EP… clearing anything over t3 is slow compared to other classes. Also because I feel our single target damage is our weakest point. While elemental damage is a good way to fix this, our builds can be lackluster of the way some would like to play the game. Even making a good skill kit by singling out a single element leaves your Monk with an awkward mix of runes, none other than maybe fire working well. And fire is only at the top because of how strong I feel Epiphany is with fire and CDR. On the CDR note I want to start some of the pin pointing. If i don’t mention something then I probably believe it is in a fine state.

CDR - I honestly feel this is a game breaking mechanic the way it stands now. Look at the perma Epiphany, Pet, Berzerk, and Arc builds.. I feel all of them are broken or gimmick at best. A few ways to fix this.
-To again increase the DR on CDR.. but then it would be a wasted stat on many items and would only cause grief upon rolling it.
-Put some kind of cap on it around 40-50%.. League does it! ^.^
-Reduce the amount of items it appears on. I like this idea the best.

Crit Damage - I hate crit Damage.. it inflates your DPS more than it should and should be nerfed hard. In 99% of all cases if you don’t have a CHD gem in your weapon.. you are doing it wrong. As a monk I still don’t have enough max emeralds to put in all my slots.. I would like to see the amount emeralds give to weapons nearly halved.

2 Handed Weapons - I feel they are still lacking and would like to see them with 2 gem slots instead of only 1.

Skills

Generators - I feel that most of the generators are fine. I would like to see a tad bit more spirit gained as well as more elemental options on them.

Secondaries - LTK LTK LTK.. This is your go to spell when you are attempting to dps. With it being less than half the cost of WoL, over 100% more damage, and can still AOE, there is no reason to look at WoL. That is why I feel WoL needs a major cost reduction.

Defensives - I feel that these do what they need to do and work well with weaving into certain fights or builds.

Techniques - I’ll have to go over all 3 individually here…

Dashing Strike - Lets be honest… everyone is jealous of this skille. It even outperforms teleport! A nerf here would be expected. Maybe 8 second charge timer up from 6?

Exploding Palm - In higher tiers.. this is nearly* a must have. A nerf here would be expected as well. I would be ok with the exploding damage being as low as 30% base.

Sweeping Wind - This is one skill i feel just needs a base damage buff.. it is just too low to count for DPS. Lightning monks can still make decent use of it however. Maybe a small buff up to 105% WD?

Focus - I feel CS and MA both are in a decent place atm. However, I believe SSS has too long of a cool down to use in a dps build and Epiphany is lacking direct dps increases other than its fire rune.

Mantras - I think these could be tweaked here and there.. but I don’t see any of them as a major problem currently. Maybe a slight nerf to Dishearten, that slow just feels OP in higher tiers. And i’m not sure Convictions is increasing the damage as it says.

Passives - I like the new adds to more DPS related passives, I still feel as if we are missing a stronger one like many other classes have. I also look at OWE and see that it is in a good place. If you get lucky you can be very tanky from it, but if you are not lucky with you loot drops then it is not even worth it. If OWE is something you want to use it make finding gear on a game with no economy harder than other classes. So I was thinking of a DPS passive that would increase our DPS and even out the added difficulty of finding gear with OWE. Basically the opposite side of OWE. It could replace Guiding Light and read something like this..

Elemental Mastery - Added elemental damage will now affect all you abilities regardless of their elements.

If this proves to be too OP you could always set it back a notch by making it only work with other elemental types and exclude Physical.

Earlier I mention adding a bit of Spirit regen, one way I feel Blizzard could do this would be to increase the spirit regen on Exalted Soul to 3-4 and remove the spirit regen from Chant of Resonance replacing it with a buff that would double the time of the activation bonus of your montras.

I feel that if some of these changes works together and could put monks in a better place than blizzard thinks they are in now without making them OP like WDs and DHs. I hope this was a good read for some and not too long. Thank you all for your time and feedback.

P.S.
With the “right” gear being so hard to find and ppl wanting more drops. Why not just make it so you can trade Kadala the legendaries you don’t want for more shards?
So...your solution to monks being underpowered is to nerf a bunch of skills, buff wol and sw (which were both mandatory in vanilla and got overnerfed) and nerf chd and cdr...I see a lot of nerfs and very little buffs there..
04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
as their tank(Palming/Pull monk)


stopped reading there. i bet there's more baloney down the rest of the post.

if i see a low dps monk in t5/t6 in pub game, i'll gonna initiate a vote kick to kick you out even if you are a "useful tank/pull" coz this is what most players of the other classes do to zdps monks.
04/24/2014 10:55 PMPosted by Messiah
04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
as their tank(Palming/Pull monk)


stopped reading there. i bet there's more baloney down the rest of the post.

if i see a low dps monk in t5/t6 in pub game, i'll gonna initiate a vote kick to kick you out even if you are a "useful tank/pull" coz this is what most players of the other classes do to zdps monks.


Wow, what a jerk move. I hope you are a minority in your vote kicking. I'd hate to think everyone doing T5/6 acts like that.
04/24/2014 11:57 PMPosted by SynthFEtish
Wow, what a jerk move. I hope you are a minority in your vote kicking. I'd hate to think everyone doing T5/6 acts like that.


you're like a frog in a well. actually i dun votekick like these but to proof a point i will. it's not me that will kick you out dumb !@#, the other retarded players especially wiz WILL KICK YOU OUT because they are profile stat hoes and don't understand how zdps works.

go try playing in a pub t6 game as zdps. HIGH CHANCE YOU WILL GET KICKED. Even if you try to form your own team, getting players from forum, they WILL CHECK YOUR SHEET DPS and if you aren't up to it, high chances they won't accept you EVEN IF U ARE AN EFFECTIVE ZDPS.

I'll keep on kicking and encourage others to kick. Some people need a painful lesson before they understand.
04/25/2014 01:18 AMPosted by Messiah
04/24/2014 11:57 PMPosted by SynthFEtish
Wow, what a jerk move. I hope you are a minority in your vote kicking. I'd hate to think everyone doing T5/6 acts like that.


you're like a frog in a well. actually i dun votekick like these but to proof a point i will. it's not me that will kick you out dumb !@#, the other retarded players especially wiz WILL KICK YOU OUT because they are profile stat hoes and don't understand how zdps works.

go try playing in a pub t6 game as zdps. HIGH CHANCE YOU WILL GET KICKED. Even if you try to form your own team, getting players from forum, they WILL CHECK YOUR SHEET DPS and if you aren't up to it, high chances they won't accept you EVEN IF U ARE AN EFFECTIVE ZDPS.

I'll keep on kicking and encourage others to kick. Some people need a painful lesson before they understand.


Thats such a terrible mentality to adopt, I'd rather be kicked out of a game then play with people who are acting so exclusionary with a game about co-op fun. I would never vote kick someone for not having high enough damage. All are welcome to come along for the fun, even if they can't contribute much. Thats what the game is about right? Having fun and smashing demons.
04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
First I would like to say to all those saying “Monks don’t belong over t4” that I have done t6 rifts and t6 Ubers with a party as their tank


04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
that I have done t6 rifts and t6 Ubers with a party as their tank


04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
tank(Palming/Pull monk)


No thanks, I'm not a tank Monk, and I find it bullsht the community expects me to adhere to such pidgin holing.

Monks are sacred warriors who channel divine power through sheer force of will. Healing waves, mantras of protection and attacks empowered with holy might are all within their purview.

Skilled monks deliver rapid-fire attacks unarmed or with a variety of well-balanced weapons. In combat, they emphasize high maneuverability over staying power, darting in and out of melees and avoiding protracted slugfests.

Monks’ attacks are primarily melee-focused. They can eliminate single foes with extreme damage, or deliver short-range area-of-effect assaults with waves of elemental power that emanate from palm strikes or crescent kicks.

Source: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/class/monk/

extreme damage
<span class="truncated">...</span>

you're like a frog in a well. actually i dun votekick like these but to proof a point i will. it's not me that will kick you out dumb !@#, the other retarded players especially wiz WILL KICK YOU OUT because they are profile stat hoes and don't understand how zdps works.

go try playing in a pub t6 game as zdps. HIGH CHANCE YOU WILL GET KICKED. Even if you try to form your own team, getting players from forum, they WILL CHECK YOUR SHEET DPS and if you aren't up to it, high chances they won't accept you EVEN IF U ARE AN EFFECTIVE ZDPS.

I'll keep on kicking and encourage others to kick. Some people need a painful lesson before they understand.


Thats such a terrible mentality to adopt, I'd rather be kicked out of a game then play with people who are acting so exclusionary with a game about co-op fun. I would never vote kick someone for not having high enough damage. All are welcome to come along for the fun, even if they can't contribute much. Thats what the game is about right? Having fun and smashing demons.


Well said dude, totally agree with you! These T6 players think they are all high and mighty and elite in a game that requires zero skill and some luck.

At the end of the day if you choose to play in a public game you have to accept the fact that anyone who joins has just as much right to be there as you. If you want to put yourself on a "Elitist" pedestal then play in private games with your friends.

Just because someone doesn't have high DPS does not mean they are not useful in a party. A classic case of e-peen over common sense.

Anyway, if anyone is looking for someone to do some casual rifting / bounties with feel free to add me (fubar#2395). I have moved from the EU servers to the US / AUS ones so am currently friendless haha :)
I don't play public games, but my alt monk is a support/tank/pull-EP-IS-shield-spamming monk and that's the monk my clanmates want me to play when we do T5/T6 runs.
Party run can help you sustaining longer in T6 indeed. The real tank monk should play T6 solely without assistants.
04/24/2014 10:55 PMPosted by Messiah
stopped reading there. i bet there's more baloney down the rest of the post.

if i see a low dps monk in t5/t6 in pub game, i'll gonna initiate a vote kick to kick you out even if you are a "useful tank/pull" coz this is what most players of the other classes do to zdps monks.


Tyriddik took a lot time to write down his thoughts and you basically just dont respect him only because he is a tank monk?
I also dont like to play as a tank monk but the build is viable and it is a possibility for not so well geared people to play a part in higher torments. I can hardly believe your observation that tank monks will be kicked out often because of missing dps. When i watch the community chats i see a lot requests for pull/tank monks because they definitly bring alot to the table for groups. They keep mobs together, EP is a major dmg factor and they provide a shield.

I am pretty sure Blizzard knows how the monks do right now and they will react. I personally think we are not that bad. If you compare to other classes we do less damage but its also a matter of how well we are geared. We definitly need more love into gearing than others.
The feedback is nice; but you have one misconception.
Diablo (even diablo 3) remains a single player game. Ofcourse playing in groups is encouraged, but playing alone should be a possiblilty, therefor monks NEED buffs, and more than you are suggesting.

WoL needs a buff - spirit cost reduction or damage increase
Seize the initiative needs to be buffed from 30% to 50% (when solo). Dodge is an unreliable mechanic that is also forwarded to as 'fake toughness'. Especially vs elite packs; you can't dodge multiple affixes (arcane for example). This allows monk to build more damage that makes up for the loss of the 4man Unity passive buff.
Monk needs viable t4+ sets. Inna's is -not NICE-. Andariels/Thundergods alone > 4set Inna's.

Your suggestions are solid; but every tank can play t6. Even wizard tank. Or barb/crusader.
It's not hard building a tank........... And if that's the only way that monk works in t6, being a 'group tank' I'm heavily mistaken by the arpg genre and sincerely am sorry that I did not see that Diablo is an MMORPG..............
04/25/2014 02:42 AMPosted by Evoldo
I can hardly believe your observation that tank monks will be kicked out often because of missing dps.


i've played the monk long enough to know these kind of things happen, even to me when i play as zdps. deluding yourself won't help you. im stating facts that most people are ignorant about monk builds and judge everyone's character by their sheet stat (the numbers which they see when they view another player's profile). They see a low number, they'll look down upon you like you're some scrub, spit at you, blame all the bad things on you, talk sheet/boss you around and even kick you out of game.

If you wanna be a slave for these retards, go ahead and make a zdps. However monks should be able to stand on their own, on equal grounds as others. Not just limited to being a support tank class. This is an arpg/hackslash. NOT AN MMO.
04/24/2014 10:55 PMPosted by Messiah
04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
as their tank(Palming/Pull monk)


stopped reading there. i bet there's more baloney down the rest of the post.

if i see a low dps monk in t5/t6 in pub game, i'll gonna initiate a vote kick to kick you out even if you are a "useful tank/pull" coz this is what most players of the other classes do to zdps monks.


Considering your gear I'd hope you aren't in anything above t1.
04/24/2014 10:37 PMPosted by Orakil
So...your solution to monks being underpowered is to nerf a bunch of skills, buff wol and sw (which were both mandatory in vanilla and got overnerfed) and nerf chd and cdr...I see a lot of nerfs and very little buffs there.


I'm in this camp. Don't nerf. Buff. We still need all the other skills to work too. Stop cannibalizing.
One thing that I thought was insightful was noting the heavy dependence on Crit Hit Damage. The balance between attack speed and crit damage has always been lop-sided. I was really confused when I started playing a monk and noticed that attack speed seemed to always play second fiddle to crit damage. I feel like the base damage boost of Rubies has a place, but not one that competes with Emeralds. Since Topaz in a weapon is utterly comical, why not change the in-weapon attribute of Topaz to increased attack speed. I suck at math, but I'm sure there is a number that would be proportional to the benefit of increased critical hit damage.

This would allow for higher spirit generation with the right selection of gems and would offer an alternative for people who don't have a love of big numbers. Five normal hits for 10dmg, or one big crit for 50dmg. It's all the same in the end, isn't it?
OP: Lot's of things I agree with in your post.

This one is flat wrong.

04/24/2014 06:13 PMPosted by Tyriddik
Dashing Strike - Lets be honest… everyone is jealous of this skille. It even outperforms teleport! A nerf here would be expected. Maybe 8 second charge timer up from 6?


Wizards can get ~3s Wormhole. That's about 9? times the mobility of Dashing Strike. (150 yards every 3 seconds + 30% mobility boost while on cooldown with Illusionist).

They do this by stacking CDR and using -4 Oculus.

Monks can't do this for DS because it is unaffected by CDR.

IF ANYTHING, DS charge time should be reduced by 1-2 seconds and/or max charges increased.
No thanks, I'm not a tank Monk, and I find it bullsht the community expects me to adhere to such pidgin holing.

This times 1 million. We pull, we tank, we palm, because we don't scale with gear appropriately.

This needs to be fixed or monks are done, especially with ladders/tier'd rifts imminent.
And, all this support/ZDS mumbo jumbo....

A tank monk that does not help party kill any faster is bad.

A monk that helps party kill faster is good.

It's as simple as that.

Support/tank monks can help the party kill much faster even with 0 dps. This mostly from positioning, EP, buffs, and dmg prevention/sustain (which let's others spec more offensively). It's NOT from being able to sit in lazer beams and farts all day.

There are bad DPS monks and bad support monks. There are good dps monks and good support monks. Let's not stereotype.

Unfortunately, a bad support monk is really bad. These days, this comes down more to play style than to an optimal gearset. A good support monk must understand game mechanics (esp EP, CC resistance, area dmg bonuses) more than any other class/build in game, or they will probably suck.

A good support monk will pre-clump/lock/debuff/palm mobs before group even gets there. They'll run only as much survivability as they need to get that job done and done well. Excess fat in toughness is lost spirit gen and lost efficiency.

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