Holy cause sucks!

Crusader
So I found a weapon that has a socket and the damage can be rerolled to holy and I get excited. The damage is a firm +1700 black when it drops. Its a stalgrade and the damage when found was around 2700.

Needless to say I get a crappy rare weapon to test with holy damage and put on the passive to see if it does more damage. As soon as I put the passive on it raises my sheet damage in game. Great! I'm happy!

So I reroll legendary weapon until it gets holy damage. I get +1670 holy damage which is awesome because its almost as high damage as the black damage!

Problem? Even with the passive I LOST damage from the 30 weapon DPS I lost switching from black to holy. What that crap?

Needless to say I rerolled until I got high damage again which happened to be black.

So the only way the passive is any good is if I roll holy damage, and its higher than the current damage the weapon deals.

So if you have two weapons, one holy with lower dps, one black with higher dps and neither of them can reroll damage affix. The one with higher damage is better regardless of the fact the lower damage one is almost as much damage as the higher one.

This skill needs to be changed so its useful. Holy skills do 10% damage would be a nice replacement.
If anyone finds differently, post.
The healing seems more useful than the bonus holy damage, to be honest. It gets more useful if you're using entirely holy damage and you have good mitigation.

Though the bugfix to +% damage that's coming up in the next patch may help Holy Cause a bit, too.
Elemental dmg on weapons is currently bugged and is rolling too low as a result - I think that's the effect you are seeing..
What again was the Beta for? ^^ So many bugs and big issues that are not solved.
04/24/2014 12:10 AMPosted by Sage
Though the bugfix to +% damage that's coming up in the next patch may help Holy Cause a bit, too.

Legit? Wow I'm so happy turns out my overall DPS now will be better after the patch.
04/24/2014 12:10 AMPosted by Sage
The healing seems more useful than the bonus holy damage, to be honest. It gets more useful if you're using entirely holy damage and you have good mitigation.


This, in my experience, is what makes Holy Cause really great. In conjunction with FotH divine well it puts out a lot of healing.
wait what? Did you even use it for healing?

That healing thingy is ONLY an addition to your Life on Hit, not per hit.

That means you still have the dreadful Proc of LOH to deal with to get that heal.

That whole skill really needs some serious rework.
04/24/2014 03:34 AMPosted by Wormrex
wait what? Did you even use it for healing?

That healing thingy is ONLY an addition to your Life on Hit, not per hit.

That means you still have the dreadful Proc of LOH to deal with to get that heal.

That whole skill really needs some serious rework.


After removing Life Steal LoH and Life Regen just need a rework period, without our Wrathful passive which is stupid strong I have no idea how people are supposed to reliably sustain above T4 without it.
So I found a weapon that has a socket and the damage can be rerolled to

Problem? Even with the passive I LOST damage from the 30 weapon DPS I lost switching from black to holy. What that crap?

Needless to say I rerolled until I got high damage again which happened to be black.

So the only way the passive is any good is if I roll holy damage, and its higher than the current damage the weapon deals.


If you could please actually test your DPS with the passive not just the numbers you see on the screen. Easy test is to go to Ghom on a difficulty wehre he has a lot of health but you don't die and divide his health by the number seconds it took to kill him. I find it hard to believe that it was doing less damage when holy + holy cause for the simple math involved:

Let's say you have a maxed out + damage at 1177 - 1788. You then reroll it to holy damage but at a small cost....you get 1059 to 1670 now. With the holy cause passive that increases the base holy damage the weapon does from 1177-1670 to 1165 -1837. This means that you have a higher damage range and can actually hit higher numbers. With this your min damage drops by 13 but your max damage increased 49 points OVER the CAP of ta two handed weapon.

This is why I find it hard to believe you actaully lost damage. Holy cause doesn't show on the actual weapon dps only on the character sheet. I'm assuming you didn't know this and mistook the weapon dps as with holy cause.

04/24/2014 03:34 AMPosted by Wormrex
wait what? Did you even use it for healing?

That healing thingy is ONLY an addition to your Life on Hit, not per hit.

That means you still have the dreadful Proc of LOH to deal with to get that heal.

That whole skill really needs some serious rework.


Uhhhh only in additions to life on hit? Do you mean it follows the same skill proc coefficient that everything else does in the game? This means that if the skill you are using has a .5 proc coefficient then you will only get .5 of the healing from Holy Cause (half a percent of your TOTAL LIFE per hit) With people running around with 500k life 1 percent of that is 5000 half of that is 2500 so you gaine 2500 life per damage hit of a .5 proc coefficient spell. I don't see how that's bad. even if it is .33 it's still pretty damn good. Holy cause is MUCH better than life on hit.
Basically you are getting 1% of your life as LoH using Holy Cause. Wth a 400k life, im getting 4k LoH from Holy Cause. The passive is decent if you have a holy weapon to boot with but if you are using Holy Cause just for the secondary healing effect, it feels underwhelming for a passive to give a 4k LoH boost.
Mortal Drama: 2666.8 dps 1385-1726 holy damage

DPS without holy cause: 970k
DPS with: 1,033,933

This is a 6.2% increase in overall dps.

Holy cause also works with your proc coefficient. I use blessed shield: shatter, which has a 10% proc coefficient. So, each time a shield lands I have a 10% chance to heal for 1% of my life. It isn't amazing, but it doesn't outright suck either. Can be better with skills that have higher proc coefficients.

You can use holy cause 3 different ways
    1. Use a holy weapon and not holy skills. Use holy cause just for a damage buff.
    2. Use a non-holy weapon and use HC just for the heals.
    3. Use a holy weapon and holy skills and gain damage and heals.
04/24/2014 07:18 AMPosted by Amiar
Mortal Drama: 2666.8 dps 1385-1726 holy damage

DPS without holy cause: 970k
DPS with: 1,033,933

This is a 6.2% increase in overall dps.

Holy cause also works with your proc coefficient. I use blessed shield: shatter, which has a 10% proc coefficient. So, each time a shield lands I have a 10% chance to heal for 1% of my life. It isn't amazing, but it doesn't outright suck either. Can be better with skills that have higher proc coefficients.

You can use holy cause 3 different ways
    1. Use a holy weapon and not holy skills. Use holy cause just for a damage buff.
    2. Use a non-holy weapon and use HC just for the heals.
    3. Use a holy weapon and holy skills and gain damage and heals.


Nope, thats not how holy cause functions. Holy cause isnt a 'chance on effect' type of skill but instead functions like LoH. Everytime you deal Holy damage, the passive returns (1% total health * proc coefficient) as health back.
04/24/2014 07:18 AMPosted by Amiar
Mortal Drama: 2666.8 dps 1385-1726 holy damage

DPS without holy cause: 970k
DPS with: 1,033,933

This is a 6.2% increase in overall dps.

Holy cause also works with your proc coefficient. I use blessed shield: shatter, which has a 10% proc coefficient. So, each time a shield lands I have a 10% chance to heal for 1% of my life. It isn't amazing, but it doesn't outright suck either. Can be better with skills that have higher proc coefficients.

You can use holy cause 3 different ways
    1. Use a holy weapon and not holy skills. Use holy cause just for a damage buff.
    2. Use a non-holy weapon and use HC just for the heals.
    3. Use a holy weapon and holy skills and gain damage and heals.


04/24/2014 07:18 AMPosted by Amiar
Mortal Drama: 2666.8 dps 1385-1726 holy damage

DPS without holy cause: 970k
DPS with: 1,033,933

This is a 6.2% increase in overall dps.

Holy cause also works with your proc coefficient. I use blessed shield: shatter, which has a 10% proc coefficient. So, each time a shield lands I have a 10% chance to heal for 1% of my life. It isn't amazing, but it doesn't outright suck either. Can be better with skills that have higher proc coefficients.

You can use holy cause 3 different ways
    1. Use a holy weapon and not holy skills. Use holy cause just for a damage buff.
    2. Use a non-holy weapon and use HC just for the heals.
    3. Use a holy weapon and holy skills and gain damage and heals.


Nope, thats not how holy cause functions. Holy cause isnt a 'chance on effect' type of skill but instead functions like LoH. Everytime you deal Holy damage, the passive returns (1% total health * proc coefficient) as health back.


I was going to put this in but I wanted to make sure I tested it first.
04/24/2014 02:16 AMPosted by Mikelodeon
04/24/2014 12:10 AMPosted by Sage
Though the bugfix to +% damage that's coming up in the next patch may help Holy Cause a bit, too.

Legit? Wow I'm so happy turns out my overall DPS now will be better after the patch.


AND Blizzard claims this patch will be retroactive...which means, any items you already have with this bug will automatically be fixed.

Let's hope...
First of all sorry about my English. I hope u will understand me ^^

Can you remove "Holy" tip on Holy Cause skill?

I have 100 Hour playing time with my crusader and i only get 1 good weapon with fire damage.

Holy,Arcane,Fire,Cold,Lightning,Poison and White Damage... 1/7 chance to get weapon with Holy Damage... so i need 700 Hour playing time? Oh wait we can Re-roll stats. But we need Socket,CDR,STR too :)
04/24/2014 08:21 AMPosted by Wayloly
04/24/2014 07:18 AMPosted by Amiar
Mortal Drama: 2666.8 dps 1385-1726 holy damage

DPS without holy cause: 970k
DPS with: 1,033,933

This is a 6.2% increase in overall dps.

Holy cause also works with your proc coefficient. I use blessed shield: shatter, which has a 10% proc coefficient. So, each time a shield lands I have a 10% chance to heal for 1% of my life. It isn't amazing, but it doesn't outright suck either. Can be better with skills that have higher proc coefficients.

You can use holy cause 3 different ways
    1. Use a holy weapon and not holy skills. Use holy cause just for a damage buff.
    2. Use a non-holy weapon and use HC just for the heals.
    3. Use a holy weapon and holy skills and gain damage and heals.


Nope, thats not how holy cause functions. Holy cause isnt a 'chance on effect' type of skill but instead functions like LoH. Everytime you deal Holy damage, the passive returns (1% total health * proc coefficient) as health back.


Hmm, tbh I wasn't 100% sure how it worked. Granted the two should math out to be the same in the long run. But using BS:shattered I get back .1% of my total health, or 480 hp every hit.
For some rough math, the damage roll on weapons is around %60 for 2H and %80 for 1H. So for Holy Cause purposes this translates to around a %6 increase for 2H and an %8 increase for 1H.

As for the healing from Holy Cause you will get more mileage out of it with generators and faster attack speed. Meaning that if your build centers around only cooldowns the healing will suck hind teat. Due to the proc chance Justice works wonders with Holy Cause, builds my wrath back up, giving me sustain and also proccing AC-Rally so I can ensue with another round of Judgement-Resolved/FotH nuking. Skills and passives will generally suck if you don't consciously build towards their strengths.

A lot of folks say that 1H are terrible, but Holy Cause seems to be made to give 1H an extra edge.
Just posted on the bugs forum asking for a blue to look and respond to this passive's issues:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12647044712
04/23/2014 11:53 PMPosted by Ashes
So I found a weapon that has a socket and the damage can be rerolled to holy and I get excited. The damage is a firm +1700 black when it drops. Its a stalgrade and the damage when found was around 2700.

Needless to say I get a crappy rare weapon to test with holy damage and put on the passive to see if it does more damage. As soon as I put the passive on it raises my sheet damage in game. Great! I'm happy!

So I reroll legendary weapon until it gets holy damage. I get +1670 holy damage which is awesome because its almost as high damage as the black damage!

Problem? Even with the passive I LOST damage from the 30 weapon DPS I lost switching from black to holy. What that crap?

Needless to say I rerolled until I got high damage again which happened to be black.

So the only way the passive is any good is if I roll holy damage, and its higher than the current damage the weapon deals.

So if you have two weapons, one holy with lower dps, one black with higher dps and neither of them can reroll damage affix. The one with higher damage is better regardless of the fact the lower damage one is almost as much damage as the higher one.

This skill needs to be changed so its useful. Holy skills do 10% damage would be a nice replacement.

It depends on if you weapon had a % damage increase in general. I found that really doesn't affect elemental damage right now from what I've seen so your dps will drop if you have that and reroll from black damage to an elemental one.

I actually rerolled the fire damage on my maximus to holy element (and overall higher amount as well) and the damage was higher. Factor in holy cause and it's even higher than before.

04/24/2014 12:10 AMPosted by Sage
The healing seems more useful than the bonus holy damage, to be honest. It gets more useful if you're using entirely holy damage and you have good mitigation.

Though the bugfix to +% damage that's coming up in the next patch may help Holy Cause a bit, too.

The other forms of healing passives are better than it actually so for it to actually be worth it, you need a holy damage weapon to make it worth using.

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