Client hangs/freezes on TP or entering rifts

Mac Technical Support
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05/13/2014 11:25 AMPosted by MysticalOS
05/13/2014 10:02 AMPosted by Benhameen
So glad we ignored the problem for the last month, instead of trying to investigate the root cause.

Such an ignorant statement. They know the exact cause of problem. The mac team are also absolutely not ignoring it either, it's just not a problem that mac team can completely fix since the main issue is platform agnostic.
This of course means little to mac end user but the problem is, the issue is that the app is not 64 bit. A problem is that is affecting mac users far worse than windows users. Changing D3 to 64 bit is a massive amount of work and it's quite likely mac users are getting the shaft as the red headed stepchild minority because OUR issues won't get a proper fix (ie a 64 bit app) until it's a bigger windows problem too.

Are you serious? That is SO much bull!@#$, that has absolutely no bearing on this issue at all outside of the tangential fact that with a 64bit app you would be able to address more memory. 32Bit apps are able to address up to 4GB of memory space, that has been what D3 always has been, that is most likely what D3 always will be.

05/13/2014 11:25 AMPosted by MysticalOS
Meanwhile, the MAC team, does everything they can to try and work around the issue on their end. Clearly the last two patches still weren't enough. Maybe now they can pressure the platforms team the importance of 64 bit support. That's probably only way the issue will be fixed properly.
All the mac team can really do is bandaid problem by reducing memory usage here and there.

I also know it can be a tough issue to test because to date I have NEVER seen issue personally and i've done dozens of rifts (with other mac users who also don't have issues either) so clearly the issue is worse for some and even non existent for others. One thing I know for certain is majority of people who have worst crashes/freezes simply don't have enough ram. VM and compressed memory seem to make issue a LOT worse for some reason. That I imagine is in apples court cause that seems a bit off. Like OS X is somehow making app use more memory when there is less real memory, which is odd. Adding more ram has certainly helped a lot of users though.

referring to it as "MAC" rather than "Mac" is a great indicator of who not to listen to :)

I have no idea where you are pulling this crap from but it would be appreciated if you stop, some of us actually understand what you are spouting rather than just eating it up.
Still crashing for me.
The problem is so much worse for me now. Loading screen freezes primarily happen in two instances in my case:

• On town teleport from a rift. The frequency of this for solo games used to be 30-40% in my estimate, and less frequent if I had other players in the game. Right after the 2.0.5 patch hit, I the loading screen now hangs EVERY time I teleport from a rift, whether solo or with other players.

• On entering a game and teleporting to a rift, say when running in a community like rift it forward - this happens on occasion.

iMac i5 32GB running 10.9.2
05/13/2014 11:55 AMPosted by DirkGently
Are you serious? That is SO much bull!@#$, that has absolutely no bearing on this issue at all outside of the tangential fact that with a 64bit app you would be able to address more memory. 32Bit apps are able to address up to 4GB of memory space, that has been what D3 always has been, that is most likely what D3 always will be.

3.5 gigs. 32 bit can address 3.5. You do realize that IS the problem right? These hangs/crashes are out of memory errors, because the app is HITTING the 3.5 gig wall of being a 32 bit binary. You also don't have to take my word for it, it's be confirmed on these forums by the Main Mac developer assigned to this issue, that this is what issue is.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?f=post&a=S4d1k&sort=time

This one may interest you the most
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12089869183?page=8#141

The main mac coder has been trying to reduce memory usage in each patch (2.0.4 and now 2.0.5) to REDUCE frequency of these crashes best he can by making it less likely for application to hit this memory limit. However, as can be seen, despite his efforts, it's still an issue. I'm sure 2.0.6, or 2.0.5a or whatever is next, will continue to work on memory usage until crashes are as infrequent as possible. This ultimately may never truly eliminate the crashes, especially for users playing on high graphics or retina resolutions. Only thing that will address that is a 64 bit binary. Yes, D3 uses that much memory.
I can't even enter rifts at all since the last patch.
this is easily the most frustrating problem the game has ever seen

hopefully its rectified soon(tm)...but i really doubt it

rifts are out of the question for now
05/13/2014 04:50 PMPosted by MysticalOS
05/13/2014 11:55 AMPosted by DirkGently
Are you serious? That is SO much bull!@#$, that has absolutely no bearing on this issue at all outside of the tangential fact that with a 64bit app you would be able to address more memory. 32Bit apps are able to address up to 4GB of memory space, that has been what D3 always has been, that is most likely what D3 always will be.

3.5 gigs. 32 bit can address 3.5. You do realize that IS the problem right? These hangs/crashes are out of memory errors, because the app is HITTING the 3.5 gig wall of being a 32 bit binary. You also don't have to take my word for it, it's be confirmed on these forums by the Main Mac developer assigned to this issue, that this is what issue is.
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/search?f=post&a=S4d1k&sort=time

OS X has been able to address 4GB of memory while running 32bit, this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#OS_X) might interest you as to why.

05/13/2014 04:50 PMPosted by MysticalOS

This one may interest you the most
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12089869183?page=8#141

The main mac coder has been trying to reduce memory usage in each patch (2.0.4 and now 2.0.5) to REDUCE frequency of these crashes best he can by making it less likely for application to hit this memory limit. However, as can be seen, despite his efforts, it's still an issue. I'm sure 2.0.6, or 2.0.5a or whatever is next, will continue to work on memory usage until crashes are as infrequent as possible. This ultimately may never truly eliminate the crashes, especially for users playing on high graphics or retina resolutions. Only thing that will address that is a 64 bit binary. Yes, D3 uses that much memory.

Yet that doesn't seem to correlate whatsoever to the fact of a crash unless you aren't handling malloc returns in the code. Giving something more addressing space doesn't correlate directly to lack of crashes due to running out of memory. If you are leaking then it will still run out of space regardless of how much addressable space you give it.

What i see from the list of posts you linked is a lot of people running under the minimum requirements, which would result in using up all available addressing space then it would start throwing stuff into an on-disk cache (paging) to compensate. Epic slow downs occur because it is trying to move data back and forth between the page file and memory contents.
The game absolutely hangs from running out of memory. Dan has said it MANY times. He even says the best work around is to restart the client when it's riding 3.5 (he doesn't say 4 he says 3.5 gigs). the APP absolutely freezes at 3.5. Whether or not OS X CAN do 4 gigs doesn't matter when 90% of the code is cross platform code that must account for cross platform PAE which has to reserve 500 megs for IO.

Do not forget that this isn't beautifully coded mac app. It's mostly cross platform C written by a platforms agnostic team. Then two more teams (windows and mac) do their respective opengl/direct3d engines on top of it.
05/14/2014 10:47 AMPosted by MysticalOS
The game absolutely hangs from running out of memory. Dan has said it MANY times. He even says the best work around is to restart the client when it's riding 3.5 (he doesn't say 4 he says 3.5 gigs). the APP absolutely freezes at 3.5. Whether or not OS X CAN do 4 gigs doesn't matter when 90% of the code is cross platform code that must account for cross platform PAE which has to reserve 500 megs for IO.

Do not forget that this isn't beautifully coded mac app. It's mostly cross platform C written by a platforms agnostic team. Then two more teams (windows and mac) do their respective opengl/direct3d engines on top of it.


That's ok, I'm just stating facts about the system's parameters. there is no such things as "cross platform PAE" in regards to what we are talking about. The system defines the parameters of memory allocations, not the application. "Cross Platform C", you do realize the entire kernel is written in "Cross Platform C" as is most of the underlying systems of the OS. As for the graphics libraries, that is going to an agnostic API that will target OpenGL or DirectX depending on the build target.

I am really not impressed with the "MVPs" assigned to this tech support forum at all. I've gotten intelligent help from Machkhan in the past, sad to see not more of a presence of official reps on these boards still.
8F72F478-376A-4F34-B886-3A977E6BB2AF

ERROR
05/14/2014 11:18 AMPosted by DirkGently
I am really not impressed with the "MVPs" assigned to this tech support forum at all. I've gotten intelligent help from Machkhan in the past, sad to see not more of a presence of official reps on these boards still.

I'm telling you, the app crashes at 3.5. You're the developer, YOU say why that is.

Also
http://www.diablofans.com/news/48068-patch-v2-0-5a-now-live

2.0.5a is another attempt to fix this "running out of memory" issue. If you still don't believe the patch notes, just like you obviously don't believe the lead mac developer working on this very hang/freeze issue that it's a memory issue, then I'm not sure what else I can say. Most of information I relay is straight from devs. I may screw up terminology or explain it poorly since I'm not a developer, but telling me I'm wrong about it being a memory issue, when there are more than enough facts to prove otherwise, is silly.

YOU were offered a chance to be an MVP, but didn't want it. I think you like complaining more than actually helping people. Have no room to complain about the MVPs though.

05/14/2014 11:18 AMPosted by DirkGently
I am really not impressed with the "MVPs" assigned to this tech support forum at all. I've gotten intelligent help from Machkhan in the past, sad to see not more of a presence of official reps on these boards still.

He moved up in company, because he's so good. he's going places. that of course did leave this forum hurting for quality blue feedback it had before. :\

Back on topic, patch 2.0.5a is live (it may not show up until you hit play but it will show up). Blizzard would be VERY interested if you are still experiencing freezing, to see if they finally reduced memory usage enough to avoid OoM freezes.
Hi all,

We're looking into this issue. I hope to have more information available soon. Stay tuned!
i just got home from work to see if 2.0.5a fixed any long load screens at all when entering a game/tp'ing/ or going from zone to zone, and sadly load screens are still 40 plus seconds. id love to hope it goes back to pre ROS days with 4 second load screens.

Is the memory usage an attempt to fix this, or something completely different? sorry if its a dumb question..i just wanna be in the loop somewhat
05/14/2014 01:40 PMPosted by Noobalo
i just got home from work to see if 2.0.5a fixed any long load screens at all when entering a game/tp'ing/ or going from zone to zone, and sadly load screens are still 40 plus seconds. id love to hope it goes back to pre ROS days with 4 second load screens.

Long loading screens are another issue. That happens when you don't have enough ram and are running 10.9(did you recently install 10.9?). 10.9's compressed memory makes game run really bad.

However, this patch should HOPEFULLy fix the freezing and corrupt graphics issues related to OoM issue.

If you want to improve loading screens, some say doing "sudo purge" in terminal before opening d3 help a lot. otherwise, adding more ram definitely goes a long way. there are ways to turn off compressed memory too since VM actually runs a lot better without it, although that's not a bandaid i recommend over just adding more ram.
Have had 10.9 for about 2 months now maybe just over. i upgraded my ram a month and a bit ago to 2 4gb chips ( on a iMac) and there was no difference at all, thats why i was praying this patch would hopefully fix it.

05/14/2014 01:42 PMPosted by MysticalOS
However, this patch should HOPEFULLy fix the freezing and corrupt graphics issues related to OoM issue.


Did the patch not get released yet then, i was assuming it was patch 2.0.5a?

thank you
and to turn off the compressed memory, could i use this line?

sudo nvram boot-args="vm_compressor=1"
It is released, it does not say 2.0.5a on launcher, it'll say build 24017 though if it's installed.
This post: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/12089869183?page=9#174

Is part of a thread of posts from the Mac developer where he connected rift crashes to memory problems. That thread is about graphic glitching on older less powerful Macs. His, and MysticalOS continuing to connect, all rift crashes to memory problems will be determined to be a mistake once they establish root cause. Even in that post they say they have not been able to crash it.

I think its a very naive approach to problem solving to assume a problem we are experiencing all have the same root cause. It is possible there are many reasons why the loading screen locks when exiting a rift. I also don't think we should give Blizzard slack on this issue. Its been months now.

So, since they can't reproduce it then doesn't that mean it being a general out of memory condition is highly unlikely? Why, can I with the best MacBook pro available, "run out of memory" in one rift sometimes but Blizzard can't make it happen?

Isn't it more likely a hardware/network/configuration issue that is present in the wild but not at Blizzard? So just a normal good ole bug. Something that is probably completely unrelated to anything you would think. Like changing to STEREO in a sound config.

That's why I'm frustrated. MysticalOS, you are harping for a 64-bit client as the answer and frankly I think you should stop advocating that because its an excuse. Until Blizzard can reproduce this in their test environment they don't know the root cause.
05/13/2014 11:25 AMPosted by MysticalOS
05/13/2014 10:02 AMPosted by Benhameen
So glad we ignored the problem for the last month, instead of trying to investigate the root cause.

Such an ignorant statement. They know the exact cause of problem. The mac team are also absolutely not ignoring it either, it's just not a problem that mac team can completely fix since the main issue is platform agnostic.


The ignorant thing here is assuming the two issues are the same without doing the due diligence to be confident it is. I've tried to point out why this hang/freeze issue may be different than the crash but you assumed it was and shut down any discussion. For example, the fact that the client freezes when entering the very first zone as I described here:

1) Kill Rift Guardian
2) Try to TP to town to empty bags
3) Client hangs on loading screen
4) Force Quit and restart client
5) Accept invite, zone into town, click on party member's banner
6) Client hangs on loading screen

Activity Monitor does not show me hitting a 3.5GB limit, but it's possible it's not updating when the freeze happens.

http://imgur.com/dZ1hi14

I understand there is a lot of "noise" in this sub forum, and even in this thread there are clearly some people that are confusing crashes and hangs. However, it was very clear what I was describing and it doesn't match up with the other crash descriptions.

Even if this is due to hitting the 32bit limitation, the fact that it happens as soon as the game launches is a much more serious bug than the one where the client eventually hits the memory limit after hours of play.

And I'm playing on a system that's better than probably 95% of players:
3.5 GHz i7
16GB RAM
GeForce GTX 780M 4GB

All my hangs have happened in a group, and always when playing on my Witch Doctor. Sometimes it will hang multiple times in a row - one time it took me relaunching the client four times before I could successfully zone in and pick up the drops from the Rift Guardian.
05/14/2014 01:15 PMPosted by MysticalOS
YOU were offered a chance to be an MVP, but didn't want it. I think you like complaining more than actually helping people. Have no room to complain about the MVPs though.

Actually I wasn't. But honestly that is besides the point of what i have said time and time again here: I am sick of seeing misinformation being the topic du jour. I am no stranger to wacky fixes that seem like complete crap but actually yield results. However I do often see a lot of bad half-truths get posted as a guise of reasoning to many of the people looking for help here. I am more than happy to be constructive, so long as the environment stays helpful and friendly to a point where this is productive.

You will see me complain here when i see people blatantly talking out of their !@#, so i guess you have seen me complain a fair bit. I have done a fair share of defending the work of the devs as well as calling out bugs and issues that have cropped up. I would like to see this sub forum be more productive, so how about we work on this.

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