Monks Are Not Fine,A Desperate Plea【No More】

Monk
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SALVATION!!!!
Oh! I also extended the posting limit, so you can continue the conversation here.
I don't have anything new to share about whats down the road as far as Monks go


Thx for reaffirming this. Monks gonna be subpar for very long time.
One With Everything is almost useless now. It's so difficult to stack a specific secondary resist. Without TRADE, it is simply up to LUCK to determine if our awesome new drop will be usable due to the secondary resist that it rolls. Enchanting for secondary resist isn't really an option without making major primary affix option sacrifices.

I think most major flaws with Monks can be solved as follows:

1) One With Everything = All Secondary Resists count as 50% All Resist

2) Dexterity = % armor

3) Damage output increase for most Spirit Spenders, including the actual damage multiplier on skills and/or cost reduction (Wave of Light... 75 Spirit?!?)

4) More Elemental build options. Example = Holy is incomplete and doesn't synergize well with the stronger items in the game. Lightning is very limited thanks to Fists of Thunder being effectively deleted from the game.

Please. Monk was so fun but it now feels like a futile effort. Every time I play I feel like I need to cut my loses and just play a different class.
05/02/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Hello, everyone

I wanted to make sure that you all know that we're keeping an eye on this thread. I don't have anything new to share about whats down the road as far as Monks go, but we're certainly keeping an eye on things. Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback, and we really appreciate all of the constructive discussions.


Anytime - we love the class and I have to say this thread has been full of very positive and constructive feedback.
The blue post is just a copy/paste from the Barb forum by the same Blue.

Now they will go back into hiding and we will see in 2.0.5 that monks are still fine.
05/02/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Messiah
I don't have anything new to share about whats down the road as far as Monks go


Thx for reaffirming this. Monks gonna be subpar for very long time.


My exacts thoughts.
really sad that no one at blizz has tried to play monk since RoS, if they did they would understand how not fine it is.

been considering to reroll for a long time now, as ive put in more work into my monk than all my friends have into their classes, yet im still the worst perfoming among any group.

i feel like a walking dmg shrine than an actual member of any group.
Yea thanks for letting us know youre most likely doing nothing for us next patch except maybe threatening to nerf us again because " Dashing Strike is OP" . I know i gave tons of feedback on whats wrong with the class towards the end of beta and now it seems everyone is pretty much echoing everything i said then. So my new feedback is fix the obvious problems and give us something next patch besides a "Please give us your feedback and well get back to you in 3 months"

And incase you really dont know...

Please make our damage comparable to Wand of Woh Wizards, Pet Witch Doctors, Blade of Prophecy Crusaders , Triple Earthquake Barbs. And no Exploding palm in groups with a tank spec/gear does not count.... you cant efficiently solo like that.

Fix dodge and or give us more mitigation.

We have 1 damage amplifying item that is ALMOST comparable to what other classes have and that is the exploding palm fist weapon

Add more support for Spender+Cooldown Builds

Add more support for Sustain builds Aka Buff some generators and add spenders that give us mitigation like the stuns from scorpion sting and blinding light.

Most of our Damage dealing abilities have a small radius aoe and low damage comparatively speaking. That is a very bad mix and results in a weak character

Make Seven Sided Strike not suck... and yes i have the Flow of Eternity Daibo and it still sucks. Easy fix imo is to either make the ability a targeted single target ability " Not Random Targets" or make the ability just do aoe damage in an Area Not random small explosions from FO. Also make 2handers not suck, and yes they do suck dont believe druin.

And if you cant do most of this between now and the next patch dont buff the bloodshard drop rates from increased difficultys
05/02/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Aurelius
The blue post is just a copy/paste from the Barb forum by the same Blue.

Now they will go back into hiding and we will see in 2.0.5 that monks are still fine.

yeah, I feel like this post didn't reaffirm anything.

Here's what I think:

a blue dev could just sit down for 1 hour and talk to a respected member of the monk community (ie druin, davlok), and then post the discussion here later.

it would probably be a more productive use of time than trawling the forums for feedback.

And the devs could actually show us they are payng attention, instead of just telling us that they are.
The biggest thing the class needs is better gear choices so if we want to play zdps support monk we can but if we want to have high damage and sacrifice a lot of that survivability we want that option too. It is no secret that our ability to clear higher torments isn't nearly as high as the other classes out there.

Also changing the elemental types of our skills by giving them more variety would go a long ways with this.
05/02/2014 01:33 PMPosted by TCHUNG
ITS HAPPENING!!!!!


Not really, he basically said nothing, if the devs where thinking of making changes, he probably would have said something like "We are aware of the current issues that exist in the Monk class and are looking at ways of improving it". It would not be hard for him to talk to the Devs and find out if they are even considering changing anything at all with the Monks.

From what he said, I doubt that there are going to be any significant changes to the monks in the next patch.
05/02/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Hello, everyone

I wanted to make sure that you all know that we're keeping an eye on this thread. I don't have anything new to share about whats down the road as far as Monks go, but we're certainly keeping an eye on things. Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback, and we really appreciate all of the constructive discussions.
Thank you! <3
The most striking is really how ridiculously weak the monk sets are compared to the other classes sets. They also don't really synergize with anything like many other sets.
05/02/2014 01:31 PMPosted by Grimiku
Hello, everyone

I wanted to make sure that you all know that we're keeping an eye on this thread. I don't have anything new to share about whats down the road as far as Monks go, but we're certainly keeping an eye on things. Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback, and we really appreciate all of the constructive discussions.


This thread? What about in the game? It's 100% clear that monks are trailing the rest in damage by a considerable amount. And not just in T5/6. Go hop in T2 with me and watch the DH's and Wiz's I play with that has less gear then even I do out damage me by an embarrassing amount.

You know what that means for monks? Less kills, less clears, less loot. The problem doesn't get better its gets worse.

The problem is obvious and all you can say is you have nothing to say what's happening down the road. Well, I guess that means I have to do what I don't want to do and drop the monk for another class. Playing a class doing 50% less dmg then the other classes is not fun.
05/02/2014 02:05 PMPosted by knossi
The most striking is really how ridiculously weak the monk sets are compared to the other classes sets. They also don't really synergize with anything like many other sets.


Check out the barbs in this video, that is how a class set should work!! And what do we get? Do 20% more damage when a 2H weapon is equipt? Or release 100% weapon damage as lightning to all enemies in a radius when telephoning to a target? Or even better gain the BASE effect of all mantras? Witch does not even work!!

Sure there is a Monk in this video, but any monk with BT set and The Fist of Az'Turrasq could do this just fine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ydhfmuzu7w&list=UUFvodJh-euIVJjnxapYiN4w
So a few things:

I think Fists of Thunder skill should have increased skill dmg, and Way of a Hundred Fists should also have a Lightning Option (Blazing Fists I think is the one, that should be anyways). The reason is because we are so limited on spirit builders that are actually viable, we get funneled.

Decrease the amount of spirit that some of the spenders use. It doesn't have to be a major drop, just enough so we aren't almost always spirit starved, especially in group play. Currently there are only two choices I see, ok damage output but spirit starved, or we can be sub-par damage output but have plenty of spirit. I don't think monks should primarily be a support class, I enjoy solo play more-so than group play.

Thousand Storm Set, the 2 piece is fine, the 4 piece is abysmal (15% increase in Lightning dmg) compared to all the other class sets, I think it's very weak. The full set is a joke, it's basically saying we have to take the piece of rubbish Fists of Thunder skill and use that to get the actually teleport dmg benefit? I think that aspect should be reworked and allow some sort of splash lightning dmg to ALL lightning attacks.

As far as builds go, there's really only one complete options with being able to switch a skill back and forth for what we are doing. As far as I see Lightning is the only complete build, while the fire, holy, and physical builds don't really seem "complete". While I personally like Lightning, I basically have to take it anyways. The reliance of Exploding palm for most builds also funnel the options and is ridiculous.

Dexterity gives us an increased chance for dodge? I think Dodge is kind of useless. Most of us have to take One With Everything, I think it should be basically given to monks as part of the 30% less damage taken. Freeing up that passive to allow us to choose something that could maybe benefit our damage output.

These are my thoughts, let's keep up the great suggestions, because this class is dying and we need help!
The OP is spot on on the issues. The biggest problems I have with my Monk are the following:

1- Dexterity being FAR inferior to Strength or Intellect for defensive purposes. On my Crusader, I can stack strength gems, it boosts my dmg AND my survivability at the same time. Same goes with my Wizard. On my Monk, I'm a little at loss there. I take so much more damage than other classes do (except for Demon Hunter that has the same issue) from stuff on the ground and AOEs Monks can't dodge. The dexterity isn't reliable, it makes our health pool spike up and down, if lucky, you'll dodge 1 massive hit, if unlucky, you'll take full dmg from it and there are plenty of things on the ground that simply can't be dodged. This is especially a big problem considering that we're melee and have no choice to fight over zones that are covered with magic stuff on the ground.

Compare this to a Barbarian for example, they can take a passive to take -20% dmg from elements, it also fuels them with Fury allowing them to spam their hammers for high dmg AND lots of healing from a different passive, it all stacks up on each other really well. My Monk probably takes at least 40 if not 50% more dmg from these than a Barbarian does. If I didn't have Maximus (which is starting to be weak at T3-4 because the demon dies fast), I wouldn't have the fire chains to dmg enemies when I have to run away and would be literally dealing 0 dmg a lot of the fights due to this.

Dexterity MUST be changed and reliable on par with Str and Int, that's the number 1 thing to fix to make Monks viable

2- One With Everything passive. While it's a great passive, it also makes gearing up a Monk optimal nearly impossible compared to other classes. Secondary stats become as important as primary ones and you MUST stack 1 specific resistance type. However, when we find good legendary items or set pieces, it's already very hard to get the right primary stats onto them, needing the right secondary pretty much weakens the Monk class by A LOT. Due to the problem number 1, this is mandatory and really hurts the Monk for crafted/set/legendary itemization.

Either allow players to reroll BOTH 1 primary stat and 1 secondary stat (it would still keep the Monks at a disadvantage having to invest more heavily to fix gear) OR, much better, change OWE passive talent to add up all the different resistance types (any type) a Monk has on his gear in order to make all resistances at this number. This would keep the passive mandatory but would help A LOT to let Monks focus on something else than having 1 specific type of resistances onto their gear.

For example, my Monk right now has some items that are ''Best in slot'' for fire. I also got 1 single piece of my Inna's Set the other night. However, those pieces not having cold resistances put me at a severe disadvantage and force me to gem resistances even more out of Dexterity, something no other class would have to do.

3- We're constantly spirit starved and in order not to be, we have to sacrifice way too much. Comparing with every other class, my Monk has to use several passives AND active skills in order to not be spirit starved (leaving me with almost no attacks OR/AND without heals). I'm working on crafting Reaper's Wraps ATM and getting a Cindercoat but it still probably won't be enough. The spirit regen is horrible, even with the spirit generator abilities.

4- Spirit generator abilities ALL feel almost exactly the same and are really boring to use. When I play different classes, the ressource generators feel different or are even sometimes useful. For the Monk, I normally DON'T use them because they're part of my build or because they're any good, I use them ONLY because I'm forced to, cause I'm out of spirit and then I deal pathetic dmg with them while rebuilding spirit. They take too long to cast and give too little spirit.

For example, on my Crusader, when I use Punish in some of my builds (melee attack that increases block chances by 15%), I'm building Wrath but ALSO am gaining something out of it, it boosts my defenses and with certain runes, it'll give me +15% chance to crit on my next special attack. Otherwise, I can use a slash that stuns nearby enemies at the same time it gives me wrath or I can attack from range with the hammer throw. On my Wizard, I can have magic missiles that light enemies on fire for some buffs and so on. On my Monk, it's all so weak and all feels so much like the same that I end up normally having to use one that gives me more spirit back.

There is only ONE fire option out of the entire punches and runes (that's something like 20 possible options if I'm not mistaken?). They're all melee punches. They all feel like the exact same and are boring as hell, there's no flavor at all about these, the damage is pathetic and we're forced to use it only for spirit. It would be nice to have effects or options that truly feel different from one an other or that even if I'm full on spirit, I might want to use once in a while for a buff (at the limit, there's one that boosts dmg by 15% for 3 seconds but that doesn't allow many attacks and takes so long to do all of the punches that it's not always even worth it).

5- There aren't enough options for different elements. I'm glad Blizzard wrote that they might look into this (not only for Monks and it's not a Monk-only issue). Some abilities are exclusively or almost exclusively based off a certain type of dmg which makes it impossible for us to use them depending on what items the game gives us. For example, I wanted to play a Lightning Monk but the game gave me a lot of really good fire Monk items and no Lightning item at all. So I'm forced into fire. I used to love the bell abilities (I forget the name, big burst) and Seven Sided Strike is one of my favorite abilities in the game. I have +75% fire dmg on me right now, the bell costs way too much spirit and does ridiculously low damage compared to my kick (so no point using it... ever). I'm stubborn and insist on using Seven Sided Strike but there isn't even a single fire rune for this ability so I'm missing out on a ton of potential dmg (everyone uses the exploding Holy one). If I wanted to use Cyclone Strike, I'd use the cheaper cost (always spirit starved) or the larger pull, not the fire one that makes me run out of spirit right away. As mentionned earlier, there's only 1 spirit generator that's fire based and all it does is that it deals fire dmg.... so we're hurting ourselves even more if we want to use it. No fire dashing strike, etc. etc.

Overall, I end up playing fire and using at best, 1-2 fire ability in my entire build despite having TONS of extra fire dmg on my gear. It limits us greatly in our possible different builds and makes it boring spamming nonthing but kicks all day long.

6- The abilities cost too much spirit for too little dmg (similar to my Crusader at the exception of when I use my Fate of the Fell legendary flail with a specific rune to crit mobs for 45 million+ back to back).

Overall, the main issues are Dexterity being too weak defensively, Secondary stats on items being impossible for us to stack to boost one specific resistance type and we're always running out of Spirit (oh and our sets are complete junk compared to other classes). Running out of spirit and being too fragile because of dexterity/nearly impossible itemization forces us to spend every passive talent and special abilities into something defensive or to regen spirit, leaving us with very boring and bland builds that aren't very efficient and only have 1 or 2 (if lucky) attack moves in the entire build. The spirit generator all feel the same and are inefficient and we're very limited in build options as we get special gear because we don't have enough options with different dmg types.

All of these problems weren't as obvious before the expansion because we could just boost our damage like crazy and have life leech onto our weapons to deal high dmg while keeping good survivability. With life leech being gone, all of these problems become much more obvious.

My Crusader also has some issues (mostly the fact that he's running 15% slower than everyone else for no reason at all) but I can work around a lot of them. Monk is very clunky and inefficient at the moment. It's hard to believe that Blizzard actually wrote that they're in a good spot last patch considering that most of them are doing nothing at all than running support builds to AOE pull mobs onto themselves and their allies to do the job/fun play of killing them.
05/02/2014 02:46 PMPosted by zerg
The OP is spot on on the issues. The biggest problems I have with my Monk are the following:

1- Dexterity being FAR inferior to Strength or Intellect for defensive purposes. On my Crusader, I can stack strength gems, it boosts my dmg AND my survivability at the same time. Same goes with my Wizard. On my Monk, I'm a little at loss there. I take so much more damage than other classes do (except for Demon Hunter that has the same issue) from stuff on the ground and AOEs Monks can't dodge. The dexterity isn't reliable, it makes our health pool spike up and down, if lucky, you'll dodge 1 massive hit, if unlucky, you'll take full dmg from it and there are plenty of things on the ground that simply can't be dodged. This is especially a big problem considering that we're melee and have no choice to fight over zones that are covered with magic stuff on the ground.

Compare this to a Barbarian for example, they can take a passive to take -20% dmg from elements, it also fuels them with Fury allowing them to spam their hammers for high dmg AND lots of healing from a different passive, it all stacks up on each other really well. My Monk probably takes at least 40 if not 50% more dmg from these than a Barbarian does. If I didn't have Maximus (which is starting to be weak at T3-4 because the demon dies fast), I wouldn't have the fire chains to dmg enemies when I have to run away and would be literally dealing 0 dmg a lot of the fights due to this.

Dexterity MUST be changed and reliable on par with Str and Int, that's the number 1 thing to fix to make Monks viable

2- One With Everything passive. While it's a great passive, it also makes gearing up a Monk optimal nearly impossible compared to other classes. Secondary stats become as important as primary ones and you MUST stack 1 specific resistance type. However, when we find good legendary items or set pieces, it's already very hard to get the right primary stats onto them, needing the right secondary pretty much weakens the Monk class by A LOT. Due to the problem number 1, this is mandatory and really hurts the Monk for crafted/set/legendary itemization.

Either allow players to reroll BOTH 1 primary stat and 1 secondary stat (it would still keep the Monks at a disadvantage having to invest more heavily to fix gear) OR, much better, change OWE passive talent to add up all the different resistance types (any type) a Monk has on his gear in order to make all resistances at this number. This would keep the passive mandatory but would help A LOT to let Monks focus on something else than having 1 specific type of resistances onto their gear.

For example, my Monk right now has some items that are ''Best in slot'' for fire. I also got 1 single piece of my Inna's Set the other night. However, those pieces not having cold resistances put me at a severe disadvantage and force me to gem resistances even more out of Dexterity, something no other class would have to do.

3- We're constantly spirit starved and in order not to be, we have to sacrifice way too much. Comparing with every other class, my Monk has to use several passives AND active skills in order to not be spirit starved (leaving me with almost no attacks OR/AND without heals). I'm working on crafting Reaper's Wraps ATM and getting a Cindercoat but it still probably won't be enough. The spirit regen is horrible, even with the spirit generator abilities.

4- Spirit generator abilities ALL feel almost exactly the same and are really boring to use. When I play different classes, the ressource generators feel different or are even sometimes useful. For the Monk, I normally DON'T use them because they're part of my build or because they're any good, I use them ONLY because I'm forced to, cause I'm out of spirit and then I deal pathetic dmg with them while rebuilding spirit. They take too long to cast and give too little spirit.

For example, on my Crusader, when I use Punish in some of my builds (melee attack that increases block chances by 15%), I'm building Wrath but ALSO am gaining something out of it, it boosts my defenses and with certain runes, it'll give me +15% chance to crit on my next special attack. Otherwise, I can use a slash that stuns nearby enemies at the same time it gives me wrath or I can attack from range with the hammer throw. On my Wizard, I can have magic missiles that light enemies on fire for some buffs and so on. On my Monk, it's all so weak and all feels so much like the same that I end up normally having to use one that gives me more spirit back.

There is only ONE fire option out of the entire punches and runes (that's something like 20 possible options if I'm not mistaken?). They're all melee punches. They all feel like the exact same and are boring as hell, there's no flavor at all about these, the damage is pathetic and we're forced to use it only for spirit. It would be nice to have effects or options that truly feel different from one an other or that even if I'm full on spirit, I might want to use once in a while for a buff (at the limit, there's one that boosts dmg by 15% for 3 seconds but that doesn't allow many attacks and takes so long to do all of the punches that it's not always even worth it).

5- There aren't enough options for different elements. I'm glad Blizzard wrote that they might look into this (not only for Monks and it's not a Monk-only issue). Some abilities are exclusively or almost exclusively based off a certain type of dmg which makes it impossible for us to use them depending on what items the game gives us. For example, I wanted to play a Lightning Monk but the game gave me a lot of really good fire Monk items and no Lightning item at all. So I'm forced into fire. I used to love the bell abilities (I forget the name, big burst) and Seven Sided Strike is one of my favorite abilities in the game. I have +75% fire dmg on me right now, the bell costs way too much spirit and does ridiculously low damage compared to my kick (so no point using it... ever). I'm stubborn and insist on using Seven Sided Strike but there isn't even a single fire rune for this ability so I'm missing out on a ton of potential dmg (everyone uses the exploding Holy one). If I wanted to use Cyclone Strike, I'd use the cheaper cost (always spirit starved) or the larger pull, not the fire one that makes me run out of spirit right away. As mentionned earlier, there's only 1 spirit generator that's fire based and all it does is that it deals fire dmg.... so we're hurting ourselves even more if we want to use it. No fire dashing strike, etc. etc.

Overall, I end up playing fire and using at best, 1-2 fire ability in my entire build despite having TONS of extra fire dmg on my gear. It limits us greatly in our possible different builds and makes it boring spamming nonthing but kicks all day long.

6- The abilities cost too much spirit for too little dmg (similar to my Crusader at the exception of when I use my Fate of the Fell legendary flail with a specific rune to crit mobs for 45 million+ back to back).

Overall, the main issues are Dexterity being too weak defensively, Secondary stats on items being impossible for us to stack to boost one specific resistance type and we're always running out of Spirit (oh and our sets are complete junk compared to other classes). Running out of spirit and being too fragile because of dexterity/nearly impossible itemization forces us to spend every passive talent and special abilities into something defensive or to regen spirit, leaving us with very boring and bland builds that aren't very efficient and only have 1 or 2 (if lucky) attack moves in the entire build. The spirit generator all feel the same and are inefficient and we're very limited in build options as we get special gear because we don't have enough options with different dmg types.

All of these problems weren't as obvious before the expansion because we could just boost our damage like crazy and have life leech onto our weapons to deal high dmg while keeping good survivability. With life leech being gone, all of these problems become much more obvious.

My Crusader also has some issues (mostly the fact that he's running 15% slower than everyone else for no reason at all) but I can work around a lot of them. Monk is very clunky and inefficient at the moment. It's hard to believe that Blizzard actually wrote that they're in a good spot last patch considering that most of them are doing nothing at all than running support builds to AOE pull mobs onto themselves and their allies to do the job/fun play of killing them.


You missed one very important topic, SETS!!

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