life and life% suck for monk

Monk
anything over 400 k life is a waste. single res ,armor, damage redection,and dex should be what stats your prioritizing. i wish i could trade the vit rolls on my gear for armor or damage reduction types
yeah, maximize them, then try to go T6 without getting one shot.
Oh guess what, you never come there, so you can't understand why we must stack vit.
Nice hard core player.
05/28/2014 10:10 AMPosted by Ptanhkhoa
yeah, maximize them, then try to go T6 without getting one shot.
Oh guess what, you never come there, so you can't understand why we must stack vit.
Nice hard core player.


uhm, I run 230k hp for T4/T5 and only thing preventing me from doing it in T6 is doing enough damage.

HP is indeed highly overrated and by no means "must" you stack vit.
problem is in T4-5 you can kill mobs fast enough.
In t4-t5, with your current gear, you only need inner cd 1-2 times then you can clear the elites.
while in T6 you can't.
That's why if you want to kill mobs in T6, you need vit.
Or if you keep kiting, till epiphany or inner cooldown, it's ok.
But still, even if inner cooldown, you cannot tank, thus you have to spend all your skill then run away.
.
and away.
.
and away.
.
Then wait for epiphany+ inner cd at the sametime then attack.
.
Then run away.
.
And away....
Zdps build vit because why build dmg? Why build dmg on monk anyways. we pull we palm we win. What else is there?
05/28/2014 09:49 AMPosted by ZACK
anything over 400 k life is a waste. single res ,armor, damage redection,and dex should be what stats your prioritizing. i wish i could trade the vit rolls on my gear for armor or damage reduction types
I actually agree with this statement :)
05/28/2014 10:43 AMPosted by massiveattak
Zdps build vit because why build dmg? Why build dmg on monk anyways. we pull we palm we win. What else is there?


What do we win? Who the heck really wants their toon with 100k dps? Can't do anything by himself, like a cripple.
05/28/2014 10:20 AMPosted by Ptanhkhoa
problem is in T4-5 you can kill mobs fast enough.
In t4-t5, with your current gear, you only need inner cd 1-2 times then you can clear the elites.
while in T6 you can't.
That's why if you want to kill mobs in T6, you need vit.
Or if you keep kiting, till epiphany or inner cooldown, it's ok.
But still, even if inner cooldown, you cannot tank, thus you have to spend all your skill then run away.
.
and away.
.
and away.
.
Then wait for epiphany+ inner cd at the sametime then attack.
.
Then run away.
.
And away....
'

Still don't need vit.

Just need more mitigation. At 99% damage reduced and another 24.35% vs elite ontop of that, no IS, no Unity, no Sankis, no epiph.

Just kill things too damn slow. waiting for fixed raiments/etc. to put us on level playing fields. I'll take 10m toughness with low vit any day any time over some hp inflated garbage wannabe toughness.
@Bacon
Are you saying that you're having 99% damage reduced :o. How.
Well being that i have two monks now, i just rift with the group one when a few of my buddy's are on. And solo play t4-5 with the lightning one to find set craftables Usually i don't join public games with my monks. I've found out that too many people either need to be carried or don't do enough dmg. I just use my summon wd for that. I do like to have vit but on my single player monk i like to max res and get armor on chest/pants.. Only two slots i've found that have the room for it. I guess shoulders but it's a pain to get a pair that is really good.
if you actually test this its pretty easy to see how much better mitigation is than hp get out your stop watch and time how long things take to kill you
Please, you haven't done much math like me yet.
The attack they gain per higher torment is much bigger than your mitigation.
Try to maximize it, you stilll cannot survive 3 hit from (the big monster that I have forgotten name).
I understand that you're thinking the more mitigation, the less damage you receive, thus you'll benefit more from health globe,regen,loh , etc.
Well, it only apply in T4-5. When the mobs cannot combo 1 hit you.
I'm trying to say this many times, if you have only experienced T3, try to get higher torment :(.
doesnt matter what diddiculty your on the math proves mitigation is better hands down you act as is the game mechanics suddenly change with t6 well i have news for you the mechanics are the same in normal as they are in t6 the only difference is that the monster stats get higher. LIFE SUCKS FOR MONKS
its funny theres still people arguing about this, the hardcoe community has known mitigation is better than hp for ages now
"the only difference is that the monster stats get higher"
That's the point dear sir.
While maximize your migitation, the monster nearly get double attack power on T6 in comparison with T4. Thus it's meaningless. While having vit help you manage to survive one more hit, having more migitation means nothing. Lul. Unless you have higher vit + mig at the same time. Now tell me, how much % damage reduce you have when you have +100 all res dear sir ?
05/28/2014 11:56 AMPosted by Ptanhkhoa
Please, you haven't done much math like me yet.
The attack they gain per higher torment is much bigger than your mitigation.
Try to maximize it, you stilll cannot survive 3 hit from (the big monster that I have forgotten name).
I understand that you're thinking the more mitigation, the less damage you receive, thus you'll benefit more from health globe,regen,loh , etc.
Well, it only apply in T4-5. When the mobs cannot combo 1 hit you.
I'm trying to say this many times, if you have only experienced T3, try to get higher torment :(.


if you stack properly, mobs cannot one hit you with proper mitigation. I'd feel safer with about 300k for T6, but theoretically it isn't required. Just need about 600 more armor and 300 more resist all.

Thing is, provided you don't get one-shot, it makes it easier and faster to recover your life, and every point of life becomes worth more. I'm at the point where adding 700 vitality would boost my sheet toughness by 2.6 million, but in doing so, I don't actually take less damage, in addition to making my life per second and life per kill stats less effective, so in short, I don't take less damage and it makes it harder to get back to full life by increasing hit points.

In comparison on my DH which has FAR LESS mitigation, even with a 30% string of ears, gains a paltry 1.4 million toughness for the same 700 vitality, almost half as much.

Mitigation is better hands down, and I'd rather my mallet lords be hitting for 200k hp and it be 80% of my hp, than 300k and it be 70% of my hp.

Vit/life is a noob trap, even on T6. Just have enough to not get 1 shot and stack MITIGATION from there. Your sustain stats will be much better off.

http://prntscr.com/3nh5w7

T6 hell rifts, even with the elites are very soloable with this. I just don't like doing rifts in this get-up, as it takes too long (which is a separate issue with monks and not related to survivability). for party T6 I swap the harrington for a 30% string of ears.

and on a side note, Life per Kill is a very effective and underrated stat.
ive survived 100s of dces on hardcore because i was stacking hi regen and high mitigation, bacon is 100% rite about this issue.also you guys saying i need to play t6 to kow what im talking about thats just dumb thats like me telling you to lvl all hardcore toons to 70 with 0 deaths do that and ill listen but until then your just a noob,news flash mechanics are exactlly the same in hardcore we just have to focus on balance in are gear and builds,anyone can play softcore on t6 woopy

Thing is, provided you don't get one-shot, it makes it easier and faster to recover your life, and every point of life becomes worth more. I'm at the point where adding 700 vitality would boost my sheet toughness by 2.6 million, but in doing so, I don't actually take less damage, in addition to making my life per second and life per kill stats less effective, so in short, I don't take less damage and it makes it harder to get back to full life by increasing hit points.

I understand 100% what you are saying and agree with you that higher mitigation + lower life means healing methods give back more effective health than lower mitigation + higher life.

But saying adding health to your current mitigation makes flat healing less effective is incorrect and misleading. You still get the same amount of health back, it just takes more to get you back to full.

If you were offered 100,000 extra health on top of your current mitigation, you'd be a fool not to take it.
zack is right in that mitigation is more important than HP at above a certain point.

That "point" is going to be where stuff cannot 1 hit you.

So i dont think anyone is actually in disagreement here, pointing out to zack that he hasn't played T6 is moot. His point is that high-regen and high-mit beat huge hp numbers any time.

My only question is why zack suddenly found the need to point this out. This isn't just not-news, this horse has been beaten to death before ROS launch, back in the days when monks and barbs were stuck behind the inferno-wall-of-death at act 2. Monks quickly learned that OWE+Time of need and getting to 1100 all res (700 was the magic baseline number) coupled with decent regen could break the wall. Right up till blizz nerfed the wall anyway.

Here's my take on this "debate" that really isn't going anywhere.

HP is like money. An unspecified currency. Whether you're indonesian Rupiah, Euro, Aussie Dollar or Japanese Yen depends all on your mitigation. Regen and other life sources are your income and incoming damage is your expenditure.

Considering your "salary" is a fixed number (say 10k) regardless of currency, would you rather it be Japanese Yen, or Euro?
05/28/2014 12:51 PMPosted by Bacon
05/28/2014 11:56 AMPosted by Ptanhkhoa
Please, you haven't done much math like me yet.
The attack they gain per higher torment is much bigger than your mitigation.
Try to maximize it, you stilll cannot survive 3 hit from (the big monster that I have forgotten name).
I understand that you're thinking the more mitigation, the less damage you receive, thus you'll benefit more from health globe,regen,loh , etc.
Well, it only apply in T4-5. When the mobs cannot combo 1 hit you.
I'm trying to say this many times, if you have only experienced T3, try to get higher torment :(.


if you stack properly, mobs cannot one hit you with proper mitigation. I'd feel safer with about 300k for T6, but theoretically it isn't required. Just need about 600 more armor and 300 more resist all.

Thing is, provided you don't get one-shot, it makes it easier and faster to recover your life, and every point of life becomes worth more. I'm at the point where adding 700 vitality would boost my sheet toughness by 2.6 million, but in doing so, I don't actually take less damage, in addition to making my life per second and life per kill stats less effective, so in short, I don't take less damage and it makes it harder to get back to full life by increasing hit points.

In comparison on my DH which has FAR LESS mitigation, even with a 30% string of ears, gains a paltry 1.4 million toughness for the same 700 vitality, almost half as much.

Mitigation is better hands down, and I'd rather my mallet lords be hitting for 200k hp and it be 80% of my hp, than 300k and it be 70% of my hp.

Vit/life is a noob trap, even on T6. Just have enough to not get 1 shot and stack MITIGATION from there. Your sustain stats will be much better off.

http://prntscr.com/3nh5w7

T6 hell rifts, even with the elites are very soloable with this. I just don't like doing rifts in this get-up, as it takes too long (which is a separate issue with monks and not related to survivability). for party T6 I swap the harrington for a 30% string of ears.

and on a side note, Life per Kill is a very effective and underrated stat.

I have no disagreement with "if you don't die it's better".
Things is, one shot only apply to DH, or other weak class. While monk can survive for over 2-3shot of mallet lord if stack properly.
But that's the problem, unlike other class, monks have to face tanking, thus it have to deal with 2-3 pack elites at the same time or 2,3 mallet lord at the same time. So basicly it is 2-3 hit at the same time.
.
Now if you're saying that other class have to face the same problem, they are not, since they can attack from far behind, or their main stat help them increase "real" migitation
.
One example is enough.
Suppose you can get 10% damage reduction from armor, etc, if you spend for vit it would be over 20% HP if your current health is 400k, and 40% if 200k, (750-500 vit).
Now assume your hp is 300k, one shot of mallet lord in T6 will take you about 200k (I've count the best migitation I could think about)., then other monster can just hit you then you die. While if you stack vit you can survive 1 more shot. (getting about 500k health) (My monk currently can though)

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