General Discussion
D3v was a fresh game, had the best combat a loot based hack n slash had seen to date, had an interesting trading system whether a player liked it or not and had the promise of having an expansion released that would add the depth it desperately needed.

In RoS all we are left with is the combat. Trading is dead, the game is stale and I think we all know by now that this game will not have any depth or any real excitement added to it. Last time I played this game a few months ago even the tumbleweed was yawning in Sanctuary.
07/11/2014 07:12 PMPosted by KrOmander
Last time I played this game a few months ago even the tumbleweed was yawning in Sanctuary.
I also enjoyed Diablo 3 1.0 up until around the time they removed Normal/Nightmare/Inferno and account bound everything.

Simply removing the auction house (which I also enjoyed using) and not binding items to account would have been fine, but why did they go the extra step and remove trading/economy entirely? Makes no sense to me
07/11/2014 07:13 PMPosted by Jace
07/11/2014 07:12 PMPosted by KrOmander
Last time I played this game a few months ago even the tumbleweed was yawning in Sanctuary.
I hate to break it to you but most people think the game has improved since vanilla. Not saying trading is bad or can't be implemented, but the AH and crappy drops rates are a no go.
If you are referring to perma wotb or cm wiz, i agree that was very fun due to its power and its a level of power/fun we wont ever have again in diablo 3. The reasons that made it fun (trivializing elite affixes, more effective the more enemies there are) goes against the "game is always a challenge, you cant out gear the content" philosophy of the designers.
07/11/2014 07:08 PMPosted by Jace
07/11/2014 06:54 PMPosted by Mordikay
I swear the bring back trading camp gets more stupid by the hour. It's like you people don't want to see the consequences of it and just need something to complain about on the forums. I wonder if in an alternate reality where blizzard brought back trading if it wouldn't be the same people there posting threads about the bot/goldseller/whatever problem to get rid of trading...

Every other online multiplayer game has an economy. They also have third party sites selling in-game currency, items, and carries.

Know what those forums aren't full of? People complaining about it.

Know what those games are full of? People playing the game instead of sitting on the forums.

Only in Diablo do people seem to have a serious problem with what has been a reality in online gaming since the beginning.

If those games are like PoE, then yes, people ARE complaining, and ARE leaving over it. Go to their forums. One of the major complaints is that the game is purely trade to win, to the point that GGG is tinkering with the crafting system.

If the games are like WoW or wildstar, well the best best gear is BoP, kind of like how the best gear in D3 is BoA. Raiding gear? BoP. Gladiator gear? Can't sell that on the AH.

People like BoA because they hated the fact that D3 was really AH3. When the best way to play a game is to not even play the game, but play some made up trading simulator, you have a bad game. My barbarian spent most of d3 in a business suit. When flip to win overshadows farm to win by such a large amount, not trading is as much an option as you feel trading is now.

For better or for worse, blizzard went with BoA and the playerbase that supports it. If you hate it that much, go play PoE. You can spend all the time in the world on PoE.xyz and relive your flipping glory days with chaos orbs. People who like BoA, well we appreciate at least one ARPG isnt a pay2win, flip 2 win, rmt infested cesspool.
Its sad watching the slowly evolving revelation of how BoA didn't fix things.... and even worse watching the pro BoA guys hold on for dear life and tell people if you don't like it gtfo.

Millions of accounts did gfto.... just compare numbers of D3v sales vs expansion.... more and more are gtfo-ing...... but yeah, keep telling people to leave, that will will make a very healthy game full of content filled expansions in the future.

Speaking of the future, if you are really fed up with the incompetence of the dev teams decision making, make the right choice for yourself in the future. Do not buy.... look at the changes they are making, decide if the game will actually be what you desire, and if its not just say no. Around 10 million accounts already did with RoS... Throw a few million more for the next expansion they offer (if they even bother) that takes away options rather than adds to them, and maybe they will get the message when a vanilla game sells 15 million copies and the second expansion gets a million or two.

You have to vote with your wallet to make changes. Its not that hard to just say no. There are plenty of games out there where the devs do not make a point of trying to take away any choice you have and force you into the most boring path there is. Spend the money there. Play the forum game here instead. Its free, you can keep updated on the slim possibility that there will ever be a be an actual successor to diablo 2, and it is vastly more entertaining than grinding for the sake of grinding.
07/12/2014 01:21 AMPosted by Zozza
Sigh, just another CC warrior that is crying that they actually have to PLAY the game to get gear.

BoA is one of the best things to happen to this game.
Deal with it.

I agree that it is good for the game, maybe not for the players. It is a little hard to swallow sometimes but, if you can see the big picture, you will have a deeper understanding of why.
BOA might not be a perfect solution but the RMAH destroyed the game period.
07/12/2014 01:31 AMPosted by Folgrin
BOA might not be a perfect solution but the RMAH destroyed the game period.

They both have their faults but BoA tips the scale more in Blizzard's favor, and less in the botting sites.
@Recluse where exactly are you getting your numbers?

As a not too big Diablo fan on any of the series and yet still played on inferno back in vanilla RoS and how things are now has way more longevity.

It happend maybe once in a blue moon but when i bought RoS little less then 3 weeks ago i was actually possitively surpriced by a game. What the game has become and will become with 2.1 is simply amazing compared to any Diablo series.

Sure if you want to go back to smashing vases for 10 hours a day that's your choice. While i still don't know where you get your numbers and have serious doubt they are even close to true, almost any gaming site and gaming channel agree on that nothing have revitalized a game so hard as getting rid of AH and the comming of RoS.
07/11/2014 07:09 PMPosted by Gungnir
Loot finding in this game works as if trading was still a thing. With or without trading, we need a constant feeling of progression. The trick is finding how to raise the ceiling high enough so that it would take a while without making becoming futile so early.

In vanilla, you could grind and sell junk to increase your wallet size which can in turn polish an equipment slot further. We always at least felt like we were moving. In RoS, even though there's another act and adventure mode, the feeling of progression is taken away too early. The game isn't difficult, it just feels like you're wasting your time.

This is a good post, objective and concise.

We need ways to progress, to polish our lewtz, beyond just higher droprates.
A way to target items as well.
That's what I think.
trading wont come back

deal with it
07/12/2014 02:04 AMPosted by Mordikay
@Recluse where exactly are you getting your numbers?

As a not too big Diablo fan on any of the series and yet still played on inferno back in vanilla RoS and how things are now has way more longevity.

I got my numbers from the sales figures via the quarterly reports of atvi. Granted more people may buy RoS in the coming quarter, but the difference between the initial sales of D3v and RoS where pretty staggering. Given the reactions to RoS, and the lack of any meaningful positive changes to the game, I do not imagine the sales of RoS are going to catch up on a relative basis to vanilla.

Please feel free to look up the numbers yourself. They are all there in the quarterly reports. The exces try to make them sound good (listen to the conference calls, they are kind of sickening with the positive adjectives), but compare for yourself. I pay close attention because I am considering shorting atvi. WoW subs are in consistent decline, Diablo was an initial sales success, but is looking like a future failure and perhaps the death of the franchise. CoD is loosing appeal over time, same with guitar hero.... meh, I am going far afield of Diabo at this point.

Anyway, the point is I did not make up the numbers. Anyone can research them on their own. D3 was an amazing success. And pure sales number RoS was pretty good as well. But the relative numbers are still short close to 10 million. I know we are concerned about a game, not corporate numbers, but relative numbers is what is important in stock prices. Momentum and trajectory are huge. That is why I say people that are unhappy should just not buy.... Even if the next expansion is a top 5 game of the year because the name alone carries it, if the sales numbers are continuing a downward trend (along with the other franchises) the stock will sufffer, and heads will roll until we get start getting games that are the quality we expect.
07/12/2014 02:50 AMPosted by Recluce
the difference between the initial sales of D3v and RoS where pretty staggering.

I read 15m vs 5m last I checked.
It's sketchy, haven't seen anything official.
But a third retention rate for an expansion is very good indeed.
The numbers just shows that D3 and RoS is not going to make up for in profit if the other future invested products fail and what the numbers overall shows is just that there is more competition on the market then there used to be and blizzard can't monopilize all genres they go into anymore.

D3 sales were indeed good and while RoS might not be there yet a lot of it could be based on the fact that D3 vanilla was such a huge fail and people are hesitent going back into the game. This of course brings the matter up of longevity of a game too which vanilla D3 had non of.

Which pretty much concludes the topic of this post. Vanilla while in sales were good but people had no idea of course what they were getting into as a new game, the version was a huge flop fest fail and all the improvements made since with removal of AH and RoS has totally revitalized the game of both people staying with the game and bringing people back with RoS.

I can't produce any proof of course but i'm like 99.99% sure if nothing had changed since vanilla and/or we still had AH diablo now would indeed be dead and not alive like i belive it to be now.

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