Monks better or worse in 2.1?

Monk
What is everyone's opinion on the Monk changes? Will it finally fix this class?
waaaay better, not good enough though. Still a lot of work needs to be done...like getting rid of dodge skills, replacing them with others. Fixing spirit generators and spenders. Adding passives...still a lot to do
Just going to reiterate the person above me:

Better, but instead of skill tweaks, (except for fixing dodge abilities and any of the heals/lps/lpss/loh abilities to be in line with those stat buffs), I think they really need to just fix the items/sets to be inline with other items/sets.
I actually don't think they're waaaaaaay better. I think they've gotten a few QOL changes that should've gone live in RoS release, and they've had main abilities nerfed without any real compensation.

EP change makes every other change for this class, at the moment, a net loss. I also think that the armor change for dex actually makes us more squishy, not less, and Harmony is a far cry from OWE.

There is so much more to do, it's mind-boggling.
Obviously better duh. EP got buffed, you can now cast it without having EP on your bar
07/28/2014 03:01 PMPosted by ZeeBearjew
waaaay better, not good enough though. Still a lot of work needs to be done...like getting rid of dodge skills, replacing them with others. Fixing spirit generators and spenders. Adding passives...still a lot to do


Nobody ever mentions how bad Monk itemization options are...
Way better? You ppl are nuts. The old exploding palm and OWE Were 1000000000x better than what the class is now.
07/28/2014 03:24 PMPosted by Fives
I actually don't think they're waaaaaaay better. I think they've gotten a few QOL changes that should've gone live in RoS release, and they've had main abilities nerfed without any real compensation.

EP change makes every other change for this class, at the moment, a net loss. I also think that the armor change for dex actually makes us more squishy, not less, and Harmony is a far cry from OWE.

There is so much more to do, it's mind-boggling.


EP had to go. HAD to. It was a crutch holding the class back and a broken game mechanic. Sure when everyone was actually able to nuke down a champ target it wasn't so game breaking but as HP scaled off the charts it's absolutely ridiculous.

I agree I feel like I take damage a lot harder now, it is more consistent.. I would have rather the dodge change been to cause a parry or glancing blow effect. Sadly the cummulative effect might have been too powerful overall.

07/28/2014 05:22 PMPosted by Strego
Way better? You ppl are nuts. The old exploding palm and OWE Were 1000000000x better than what the class is now.


The class is WAY better now. Yes EP is gone and yes OWE is gone but harmony is only a slight nerf at most and a net-neutral change at least. EP was broken, everyone knew that. I wager to say it was far more broken than FoT ever was which in my opinion started the decline of the class. The decreased attack speed to combat life steal and life regen effects on our base generators really hurt us.
07/28/2014 05:50 PMPosted by iMind
The class is WAY better now. Yes EP is gone and yes OWE is gone


Nope youre wrong Monks had a role they were best at. Now theyre just the worst of all the classes at damage and have no unique role to fall back on. You really think thats better?
Bout the same from my experience.

You still need double unity to mitigate.

You still do crap dmg and average out around the same exact spot before 2 rounds of tuning changes.

So nothing really has changed.
The class has been brought up to where it should have been at RoS release. This means we're still behind all the other classes who are now getting tweaks on top of already being viable.
07/28/2014 07:12 PMPosted by Ohm
You still need double unity to mitigate.


Everyone except WD uses double unity to mitigate.

This is an issue non exclusive to monk that effects all melee, and its better to focus on problems that ONLY effect monk.

Like itemization
Like our lack of options to deal damage
like our unfixed skills
like our set bonuses that are just BAD compared to other classes.
07/28/2014 05:50 PMPosted by iMind
07/28/2014 03:24 PMPosted by Fives
I actually don't think they're waaaaaaay better. I think they've gotten a few QOL changes that should've gone live in RoS release, and they've had main abilities nerfed without any real compensation.

EP change makes every other change for this class, at the moment, a net loss. I also think that the armor change for dex actually makes us more squishy, not less, and Harmony is a far cry from OWE.

There is so much more to do, it's mind-boggling.


EP had to go. HAD to. It was a crutch holding the class back and a broken game mechanic. Sure when everyone was actually able to nuke down a champ target it wasn't so game breaking but as HP scaled off the charts it's absolutely ridiculous.

I agree I feel like I take damage a lot harder now, it is more consistent.. I would have rather the dodge change been to cause a parry or glancing blow effect. Sadly the cummulative effect might have been too powerful overall.

07/28/2014 05:22 PMPosted by Strego
Way better? You ppl are nuts. The old exploding palm and OWE Were 1000000000x better than what the class is now.


The class is WAY better now. Yes EP is gone and yes OWE is gone but harmony is only a slight nerf at most and a net-neutral change at least. EP was broken, everyone knew that. I wager to say it was far more broken than FoT ever was which in my opinion started the decline of the class. The decreased attack speed to combat life steal and life regen effects on our base generators really hurt us.


I totally agree EP had to go. This is an obvious and tired point. EP is rightfully gone, and yet there isnt anything to offset that loss now. So, as it stands, even though EP had to, we're still worse off without it.

Your entire post talks about how worse monks off are: Harmony is a slight nerf, dodge to armor makes us take more damage. Yet you say we're WAY better? How? Because DS has cooldown reduction?

The argument isn't that EP and OWE should stay. The argument is losing them needs to be compensated for, and then some. And they're not. Not by a longshot. And the new EP is terrible in higher rifts and greater rifts. You have to kill a mob to trigger an explosion that has a 8 yard range and does less damage than a Raiment Dashing Strike.

This class is just broken right now. It was--and Blizzard freely admits this--balanced for old school EP, and even then it was clearly underpowered. Now it doesn't have that, and there's no real compensation for it. How can anyone say it's better off?
Cause it's a step in a better direction and is fun to have more options? It is way better, and I'm hoping will get waYyyyyyyy better than it is now. I'm having a lot of fun on ptr. And yes our itemization does in fact suck.
My opinion:

For casual monk players, current 2.1 PTR monk is better but not by much.

For top monks, current shatter palm monk is much better than any top monk build in PTR 2.1. A decent geared shatter palm monk can 1 carry 3 in T6 (except for the rift guardian, which requires a furnace). In PTR 2.1, monk by all means is at the bottom of solo capability.

For team play, current monk is "GOD" mode, with OWE and str from gear, EP benefits from physical dmg and elite dmg, no matter you go with CDR ZDS or traditional CC but non-CDR ZDS, it is the best build for team play. With incoming nerf of EP on 2.1, monk's role in the team hugely diminishes, a freezing bard or a cc DH could offer better team support in high torment levels.

2.1 PTR so far give the potential for 2 hander TR build, but that's pretty much it and even this all the spirit regen buff, 2 hander monk pretty much tops at GR 30. Stormbreaker monk tops at 34 ish. Both requires some luck and top level gear.
Wasn't Druin suppose to be talking with the devs personally (through email) and streamlining changes?

What happened to all of that?
07/28/2014 10:24 PMPosted by Oxygenetic
Wasn't Druin suppose to be talking with the devs personally (through email) and streamlining changes?

What happened to all of that?


HAHAHAHA you actually believe Druin would do all that? Druin only knows how to tell us to stop whining and be patient.

I have been saying it for a long time: Monks needs more MVPs, and preferably MVPs with more guts and a sense of urgency.

Clueless designers + Brown-noser MVP with no conviction = Totally weak and hopeless class.

If you want to see a real MVP, look at Jaetch (Wizard MVP). He has been aggressive in communicating with the devs. As a result, Wizards have received strong buffs in PTR, and a Blue just announced earlier today that more Wizard buffs are incoming.
I heard we are getting more buffs in 2.242.0 patch.

#hopebabyhope
07/28/2014 11:04 PMPosted by PappaPia
07/28/2014 10:24 PMPosted by Oxygenetic
Wasn't Druin suppose to be talking with the devs personally (through email) and streamlining changes?

What happened to all of that?


HAHAHAHA you actually believe Druin would do all that? Druin only knows how to tell us to stop whining and be patient.

I have been saying it for a long time: Monks needs more MVPs, and preferably MVPs with more guts and a sense of urgency.

Clueless designers + Brown-noser MVP with no conviction = Totally weak and hopeless class.

If you want to see a real MVP, look at Jaetch (Wizard MVP). He has been aggressive in communicating with the devs. As a result, Wizards have received strong buffs in PTR, and a Blue just announced earlier today that more Wizard buffs are incoming.


Tempest Rush was Druin favourite skill in D3 period. Now it will be buffed in 2.1!
All that really needs to be said is that our one viable build, Shatterpalm, has been nerfed into oblivion, with almost nothing to compensate for it. Harmony's worse than OWE, our damage is still pathetic, our sets are pathetic, and we still have the least skills and passives, and of the ones remaining, some have absolutely no benefit anymore given they're meant to buff dodge. It's laughable.

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