To Everybody That Thinks Demon Hunter Is OP

Demon Hunter
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I don't think clear times are relevant to evaluating the effectiveness of the classes. What level was cleared is a much better metric.

If all classes were say at level 40, then you could say "a WD did it in 14:00 whilst the Barb did it in 14:30 therefore WD is better". You could of course be wrong as time differences may be due to lucky gear drops, lucky rift density, lucky rift guardian etc.

Then perhaps the Barb goes on to clear 41 whilst the WD cannot. The barb does it in 14:45. It wouldn't make sense to say "WD is better cos it cleared 40 faster than barb cleared 41".

Therefore, evaluating the data, you would say that because DH's have cleared the highest level greater rifts that they are the strongest class. It then is a matter of opinion as to if they are so far out in front that they are OP.
09/02/2014 01:45 AMPosted by Madmartigan
Instead of screaming for nerfs, why dont you instead ask for buffs for all other classes? That is what Grifts seem like they were put in for in the first place. They are mile markers for classes and where blizzard should bring all classes up to. Just think about it, "Class X can get to level Y in Grifts. That gives us our benchmark for where we want to bring all other classes.". Great idea isnt it?

Very well said. But do the other classes even need a buff? Like I said, in the grand scheme of things, the classes are just about even. More time is needed to see if the top top position changes hands, and why.

If one class (Monk) consistently lags behind, then that should be the first to be worked on. If the high GRift position changes hands, especially several times, then the traders are probably well balanced, and need no work.

At present, it's too early. Time will tell. There are a lot of Legs yet to be found, and the Seasonal Legs also need to be worked in from the first Season. Then we'll have a clearer view of where we stand.
09/02/2014 02:09 AMPosted by OldPro
Very well said. But do the other classes even need a buff? Like I said, in the grand scheme of things, the classes are just about even.


Classes currently are not even plz dont kid yourself, and no dont just go out and buff stuff, power creep! People in here seriously need to look up power creep and understand what it means...
I would not read too much into the grift scores after this few days.

Demon Hunter:
Found himself in a position where his strongest build is ready to go from minute one. Of course he is going to be in the lead after a few days. M6 players did not have to change a thing about the way they play. Just enter the rift, done.

Monk:
Underwent tremendous changes, most players will have to regear first, then learn to play a new build at peak efficiency and then attack rift scores.

Wizard:
Found out his Mirrorball was nerfed to the ground. Velvet Caramel is now an item which is just exploding his damage, but also super-rare. Got an extra present by Electrocute dealing fire damage to trigger class set, which still needs a hotfix. Even though I have 700h on my Wiz and all the items, I still can't attack rifts as aggressive as my M6 can, due to having to wait for the hotfix.
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
To everybody that thinks the Demon Hunter is overpowered, and so much stronger than the rest of the classes, and that the Demon Hunter class, specifically the M6 build, needs to be nerfed:

Wrong. You are all wrong.

Now that we have data to look at, look at it.

The facts are that in the Americas:

    The top Barbarian completed GR38 in 14:19.

    The top Crusader completed GR38 in 13:34.

    The top Demon Hunter completed GR42 in 11:51.

    The top Monk completed GR37 in 9:47.

    The top Witch Doctor completed GR39 in 11:52.

    The top Wizard completed GR40 in 14:48.

That looks just about pretty damn even to me.

But you can present just that data in a lot of ways. For example, the Demon Hunter completed the highest level by 5 levels above the lowest, a Monk. But the Monk had the fastest time by 5 minutes below the slowest, a Wizard.

All the number one spots are held in a 5-level range of 37 to 42, and in a 5 minute time of 9:47 to 14:48. If I were on the Blizzard development team, I would be pretty happy with those numbers. Any statistician would, given the number of players.

Now, what exactly are all you people complaining about, again?


You can present the data in many different ways. However, unless you're blind or illiterate the only possible conclusion is that DH are way ahead of the curve.

They are 2-5 GR tiers higher if you look at highest level completed. Even if you could look the other way and call this difference fair, it is dwarfed by the fact that if you look at the sheer NUMBER of DH players at higher GR tiers compared to other classes, there is simply no comparison.
09/02/2014 01:31 AMPosted by Hulkina
And its another DH begging not to get nerfed. I lol'd. Data is not the top biggest number. YOU are the one thats wrong. Take the average of the top 100 or something then maybe we can talk a bit...take the average of the top 10,000 and were getting closer to actual "data".

As a DH your playstyle is idiotic and the entire reason people are upset. You run screens away while your stationary sentries do all the work for you. /golfclap There would be less rage if you had to play in the same vicinity as Jailer going off...but you in fact get to skirt just outside that or around a corner.

^^ thats what i'm complaining about.


Diablo 2. Trapsin.
09/02/2014 02:03 AMPosted by DòóM
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
The top Barbarian completed GR38 in 14:19.

The top Crusader completed GR38 in 13:34.

The top Demon Hunter completed GR42 in 11:51.

The top Monk completed GR37 in 9:47.

The top Witch Doctor completed GR39 in 11:52.

The top Wizard completed GR40 in 14:48.


This just shows melee is being !@#$ed over as usual, if you think those numbers are fine you havent played high levels in Grifts, the HP on mobs increase by retarded amounts and so does the damage. The difference between 1 level is quite big at that point.


look at my thread with a better range, the world wide leaderboards give you a better picture, the gap is closing every single day WD jus thit lvl 40 today

heres the latest rankings

DH - 42
Barb - 40
Wiz - 40
Wd - 40
Cru - 38
Monk - 38

the gap has been closing almost every single day, i expect the classes to plateau at 42 and have a gap of 3 rifts with monks possibly being 4 but they do need some more buffs and blizzard is aware of this. Barbs are actually doing pretty good in other regions
09/02/2014 02:10 AMPosted by DòóM
09/02/2014 02:09 AMPosted by OldPro
Very well said. But do the other classes even need a buff? Like I said, in the grand scheme of things, the classes are just about even.


Classes currently are not even plz dont kid yourself, and no dont just go out and buff stuff, power creep! People in here seriously need to look up power creep and understand what it means...


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Power creep is the gradual unbalancing of a game due to successive releases of new content.[1] The phenomenon may be caused by a number of different factors and, in extreme cases, can be damaging to the longevity of the game in which it takes place.

As new expansions or updates are released, new game mechanics or effects are introduced, making it increasingly difficult for older content to remain in balance without changes. Usually, this means new content releases grow successively more powerful while older content becomes regressively outdated or relatively underpowered.

Power Creep has absolutely nothing to do with this.. Power Creep is basically just making old content garbage when new content is released... Which is being done in every single game that has expansions or added content at a new level. !@#$ about your power creep BS.
09/02/2014 02:03 AMPosted by DòóM
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
The top Barbarian completed GR38 in 14:19.

The top Crusader completed GR38 in 13:34.

The top Demon Hunter completed GR42 in 11:51.

The top Monk completed GR37 in 9:47.

The top Witch Doctor completed GR39 in 11:52.

The top Wizard completed GR40 in 14:48.


This just shows melee is being !@#$ed over as usual, if you think those numbers are fine you havent played high levels in Grifts, the HP on mobs increase by retarded amounts and so does the damage. The difference between 1 level is quite big at that point.

I can make it to 33 with the M6 on this account here. I'm working on another account now that is P350ish, so I'm hoping for better on that one.

But even at 33 I have to be careful as heck, because a direct hit from a mortar will vaporize me...lol...I mean death so instant in takes my brain a second to figure out what happened, while I'm still madly hammering buttons! LOL
I don't think you could fail any harder by trying to compare times in different level rifts.

also you appear to main a DH so you aren't even trying to be objective
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
5-level range of 37 to 42

GR34: boss HP = 15B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miB4uS66CkA

GR36: boss HP = 21B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM53Qjf2g0E

GR40: boss HP = 40B
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzCGelp1L_g

So we're talking about more than double monster HP along with an undefined larger mob dmg, which which means something like at least double performance.
In a game that has no real meaning except for enjoyment, there is NO such thing as OVER POWERED!

Nothing is really "balanced" nor should it be, for it is always the differences that make everything work.

To everyone who always call for balancing this or balancing that..... go get a life outside of gaming.

Your playing a game like this has ZERO impact on me and vica versa..... I don't care about ladders/ leaderboards or any other such trivial C R A P!

As OldPro CLEARLY shows.... DH's are not top and are close to par with the other classes.....

So to ALL of you NERF CALLERS....

Go get stuffed! 8P
Sentries should take damage.
Mission accomplished, balance achieved. I'll be expecting my check in the mail, Blizzard.
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
But the Monk had the fastest time by 5 minutes below the slowest, a Wizard.

I need 12 seconds walking from my home to the supermarket. A jet needs 12 hours from Europe to Brazil.

Does that mean that I'm faster than a jet?
09/02/2014 02:14 AMPosted by Azwrath
They are 2-5 GR tiers higher if you look at highest level completed. Even if you could look the other way and call this difference fair, it is dwarfed by the fact that if you look at the sheer NUMBER of DH players at higher GR tiers compared to other classes, there is simply no comparison.

The number of players of a class mean nothing. Just a measure of its popularity.

If DH and Sader could both clear level 45 in exactly the same time, but there were only two Sader players and 20,000 DH players, would you say that the DH is overpowered and the Sader needs a buff?

No. Popularity does not equal performance, and sheer numbers cannot be taken into consideration.
How about we look at it like this.

The LOWEST DH on the leaderboards, #1000 is at wave 36 with a time of 12:45.

The closest wizard to this time is #67 with a time of 12:43.

Being at wave 36 at ALL for wizards nearly puts you in the top 100.

151 DHs have completed wave 39. 2 Wizards have completed wave 39.

Are you getting the point I'm putting across now? Sure, it's POSSIBLE for other classes to keep up, but DHs are still completely smashing every other class hands down.
09/02/2014 03:16 AMPosted by Salzwer
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
But the Monk had the fastest time by 5 minutes below the slowest, a Wizard.

I need 12 seconds walking from my home to the supermarket. A jet needs 12 hours from Europe to Brazil.

Does that mean that I'm faster than a jet?

I merely gave an example of how data could be presented. If you want to use those presentations to make completely irrelevant, irrational, erratic and incorrect conclusions, that's up to you.
09/02/2014 03:05 AMPosted by Santa
In a game that has no real meaning except for enjoyment, there is NO such thing as OVER POWERED!

Nothing is really "balanced" nor should it be, for it is always the differences that make everything work.

To everyone who always call for balancing this or balancing that..... go get a life outside of gaming.

Your playing a game like this has ZERO impact on me and vica versa..... I don't care about ladders/ leaderboards or any other such trivial C R A P!

As OldPro CLEARLY shows.... DH's are not top and are close to par with the other classes.....

So to ALL of you NERF CALLERS....

Go get stuffed! 8P


Several GR tiers is not close. T4 - T6 is just 2 levels. But the actual difference is enormous.

If you actually looked at the data objectively:

Top 151 DH players are between GR 39-42.

Top Crusader is 38.

The only thing that you can possibly conclude is that the "difference" (as you like to call it) between DH and the other classes is that they're better by orders of magnitude.
09/02/2014 03:23 AMPosted by Divine
151 DHs have completed wave 39. 2 Wizards have completed wave 39.

Are you getting the point I'm putting across now? Sure, it's POSSIBLE for other classes to keep up, but DHs are still completely smashing every other class hands down.

How do you know?

Tell me, what is the percentage of the total number of Demon Hunters and the total number of Wizards that have completed wave 39?

The actual number is meaningless. If you want to draw a conclusion from that perspective, you need a percentage of the total. There might be 80,000,000 Demon Hunters and 14 Wizards.

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