To Everybody That Thinks Demon Hunter Is OP

Demon Hunter
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09/02/2014 01:13 PMPosted by OldPro
...

Firstly, nobody cares about your thread. Your analysis is flawed.

I care about his thread, so your statement is not simply "flawed," you are just wrong.

(truncated out, relinked here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14059216736 )

09/02/2014 04:15 AMPosted by Azwrath
Secondly, your thread shows a large gap between DH and the other classes. 2 or 3 GR levels is an ENORMOUS difference.

Then as soon as you look at the numbers of players at each corresponding GR level you will see the real story - a horde of DH players sitting above everyone else.

This gap is not going to close, unless significant changes are made. Instead of wasting everyone's time trying to say "time will fix this" (nope, only a patch will fix this), why don't you enjoy your time with your beloved DH while you can?

At the end of the day I say, so what? Are players of other classes so petty that they simply cannot enjoy playing their class unless they can do just as well or better than everyone else?

It all comes down to what I have been saying all along; the flawed psychology of these few players. Jealously, envy, anger, immaturity, lack of self confidence, poor self-image, and a giant inferiority complex.

It hasn't really got anything to do with the game.


And if the situation the other way around you would be no different. You'd want DH to be better than everyone else (jealousy) lol Don't act like mr. goodbar you are human too and you're just making excuses to not get DH nerfed. To bad so sad though cause IT'S COMING bwwahahahahahah. ;)
09/02/2014 04:59 AMPosted by Pawlus
I say it's not fair when some classes have minions which easily do damage comparable to other classes main abilities which on the other hand have to be pressed manually.

Maybe it's just me but I have a feeling that minions do way too much damage in this game.

There is no doubt about the utility and popularity of player "minions." They do damage, and distract hordes of monsters from the player, so they all don't hit the player at the same time.

Now we get into a discussion of the horrible monster AI in this game that allows 18 Reaper Archers (or Moon Clan Impalers) to all shoot the player at the same time, or 3 groups of elites to spam nonstop unavoidable affixes at the player all at the same time.

So, to help combat the terrible enemy AI, pets are very useful.

I think all classes should have some kind of pets or minions available that are on the same scale as the DH pets when they are using M6 with Cloak of the Garwulf. That's 3 wolves, and every other Companion available to the DH. These don't have a lifespan or time limit, a very short cooldown, and they respawn rapidly when killed.

In the absence of decent enemy AI, if all classes had this type of "pet,"companion," or "minion" available, it would instantly put them 2 GRift levels up just by virtue of distracting half the monsters from coming straight after them.
This data is from yesterday but still shows:

On Normal Non Season there are 771 DH at Grift 37+ next highest class is Wiz at 43 people.
On Normal Season that just started there are 104 DH at Grift 30+ next highest is Wiz at 13 people
On Hardcore Non Season there are 75 Grift 30+ DH and next highest is WD at 22 people
On Hardcore Season there are 62 DH Grift 20+ and next highest is WD at 46 people

or pick other categories.
Highest GR achieved in Seasons, Hardcore, Softcore every single category DH
Number of people passing a point in Season, Hardcore, Soctcore, every single category DH
Highest 2 man DH+Monk 3man DH+monk 4man DH+monk or DH only
L2P ................................ other classes
09/02/2014 05:19 AMPosted by Revolution
What's interesting here is that we have a paragon 200 something OP with terrible demon hunters giving lectures about class balance.

I lol'd.

LOL...well, in my own defense, I do have 2 other accounts; my original, which is at P351, and my brand new one, which is at P61, and the "200 something" of this one is 245. That's a total of 657 P-Levels, but granted, being so low, they are sort of EZ Mode.

But you bring up an interesting point; the "terrible" DH on this account, "Protagoness," that barely does 850K Elite Elemental damage, can solo T6, and the last time out reached GRift 33 in a 4-man group, and 25 or 28 solo.

On my other account, my M6 does 1.25M Elite Elemental damage, and I have not done a GRift with her yet (just got my first Trial Keystone yesterday...lol). But I expect her performance to be even better.

Granted, I am not the most skilled or inventive player in the game, but I have been playing since June, 2012, and I have about 4500 hours into the game, so I think a little bit of what I say is accurate and sensible.
09/02/2014 05:24 AMPosted by Vresiberba
09/02/2014 03:30 AMPosted by OldPro
There might be 80,000,000 Demon Hunters and 14 Wizards.

I have it on good authority that there are at least 1000 Wizards playing, and I think a 1000 is a pretty decent sample size.

It's an illustration....sheesh....

09/02/2014 05:28 AMPosted by Hemi
It will likely end up being some kind of combined solution. Nerfing DH's and buffing the other classes. They probably won't do it for all the classes at once either.

And they definitely won't do anything until sometime after Season 1 ends, and the other classes get used to their new gear and class changes, and their performance can be properly evaluated...
5 untouchable sentry that spam your most expensive spenders as fast as your attack speed allows for 60 seconds with nearly no resource cost.

yeah that aint OP!

as a melee, i cant continue attacking while arcane beams swirl around or they rotate reflect damage and frozen, while you can stand on a corner pressing a couple buttons and win.

i played dh for a while, til the monk changes on ptr. its boring and overpowered. all other classes need that extra item or 2 to make their sets really shine, DH can wear m6 without rorg or TNT and be stronger than all other classes without that extra piece. they don't even need a specific weapon while other classes need some uber rare one.

also, monk needs a set amulet that rolls well or be stuck with rorg farming 33s. we all know what amulets constantly drop with the green text now don't we?
09/02/2014 01:00 PMPosted by Wolverine
09/02/2014 12:56 PMPosted by Tropicalypso
Sadly, what will happen (just like in early D3v) is that DH's will get nerfed, and be irrelevant, while the other classes will figure out their skills/gear/gem combinations, and become incredibly powerful.


Which is good. I'm all for it. :) So let the nerfing begin. Sentries foist please ;))

You are so funny, Wolverine. You are so quick to tear me and Demon Hunters down, but even mention the Witch Doctor pets and you are right there defending every little tihng about them!

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14057706860?page=5#82

"Kill the Demon Hunter!...But don't you dare touch my precious Witch Doctor!" Don't you see how foolish you are?
09/02/2014 01:12 PMPosted by Nasreth
M6 build is boring as all hell to run, just drop sentries and pets do everything for you.

Some play it like that, but as you say, it is rather boring. You'll notice that I use Preparation/Punishment in this build. That's because I get right in there and blast away with Multishot while I am ringing my target in Sentries. It's much more dangerous, I die more often, but man! it's a lot more fun than "plant, run, wait..."
09/02/2014 01:21 PMPosted by PM5K
I don't have anything against DH's, but the build itself would likely remain the only build that players who roll DH's would play.

Wrong. Look at my profile on this account (I have 3 accounts, all with different classes and builds).

I have 3 distinctly different DH builds on this account, and I enjoy playing every one of them. Each has a specific purpose.

Protagoness does T6 Rifts to find Legs (for Souls for crafting and such) and GRifts (to level up Legendary Gems).

SgtStrafer does Normal Bounties, to look for the next RoRG, Gloves of Worship, and Illusory Boots.

KeymonHunter is a general purpose Demon Hunter that I use for anything. She has about 5M Toughness and about 1.2M Damage (but zero elemental damage...lol).

It all depends on the player. If the player is one of those weak-minded jealous types, they'll roll the strongest build of any given class, then cry incessantly for nerfs to all the other classes.

If they are like me, they'll roll whatever they like playing, play it, and to hell with whatever other players are doing; it matters not one bit.
09/02/2014 01:23 PMPosted by Gemonay
Play the game or don't, but don't bag on your fellow player who is in the same boat as you are.

Exactly. This forum is unfortunately populated in part by a certain class of people who display a frightening array of thinking errors, obstinacy, and ignorance.

09/02/2014 01:35 PMPosted by Athiniel
I think that Blizzard should give it another couple weeks, then buff the lowest classes. Or make it less ridiculous for melee to deal with the onslaught of damage in higher rifts.

They very likely will observe, but not do anything until after the end of Season 1.

09/02/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Wolverine
And if the situation the other way around you would be no different. You'd want DH to be better than everyone else (jealousy) lol Don't act like mr. goodbar you are human too and you're just making excuses to not get DH nerfed.

LOL...no, I am a well-adjusted human, and I don't care one bit what other classes or players do. Changes to my favorite class annoy me, for example, the recent Preparation/Punishment 20-second cooldown nerf, but I don't start calling for nerfs to other classes because I am mad about it; I rake Blizzard over the coals.

I also do not sling meaningless personal insults at people (which is against the CoC, by the way), just because they don't agree with me or I disagree with them.

Finally, I have no way of measuring whether Demon Hunters, or any class, is "better" than any other class. It's subjective. It all depends on what you like to play.

09/02/2014 01:41 PMPosted by Malvolio
Highest GR achieved in Seasons, Hardcore, Softcore every single category DH
Number of people passing a point in Season, Hardcore, Soctcore, every single category DH

But the gap is closing, and only after a couple day. A couple days! We'll see where things stand in a couple weeks.

09/02/2014 01:52 PMPosted by plouyd
as a melee, i cant continue attacking while arcane beams swirl around or they rotate reflect damage and frozen, while you can stand on a corner pressing a couple buttons and win.

I remember back in the old days, when we had Lifesteal. My Barbarian could stand on the center of an Arcane Sentry at MP10, while a Woodwraith poisoned me and 50 Moon Clan Impalers hit me with spears at the same time, while I pounded away on some Reflect Damage Elite...LOL...those were the days!

But as I have said, I have Preparation/Punishment in this build, because I get right in the shat and blast a way with Multishot while I am ringing my prey with Sentries. It's much less boring, but much more dangerous, and much more exciting and fun!
the difference between a wizard barely completing a lv40 grift, and multiple dhs easily completing a 42 rift is pretty vast, grifts scale up much faster after 30. but more importantly you can't just look at ONE person and make a judgement from that. the dh leader board as a whole speaks pretty clearly: demon hunter is extremely easy, or extremely powerful, or both.
all your dhs are beyond terribly geared if i was as !@#$ geared as you i wouldnt think my class was that strong either
If they end up going against their new philosophy of buffing instead of nerfing for balance, I'll be done with this game once and for all.
09/02/2014 01:17 AMPosted by OldPro
Now, what exactly are all you people complaining about, again?


What I'd be complaining about is that each class has only one really good build now that just pushes past the rest by miles.

As a DH I'd be complaining about lack of regeneration from our generators (it's sloooooooooow using them, which is why M6 is used so much even though many of us hate Turret Defense 3000 as our playstyle).

As a fresh or HC player, Ramaladni's Gift is pure frustration in a bottle all shaken up with the cork aimed squarely at our eyes. Take my HC DH for example. I had an OK weapon, but it has no socket and I have no CHD bonuses on gear. I'm just not getting any drops, period and it sucks. But oh wait, I could probably go up a difficulty or two for better drops if, oh I dunno, had a socket added to the weapon from the use of Ramaladni's Gift. I've gotten one DH weapon out of 15 or so legendaries (tons and tons of rings which are WAY too heavily weighted on the drop tables), and it's a Dawn with no socket also. Brick walls suck. Torment lockouts on Ramaladni's Gift sucks more because it just exacerbates an already frustrating situation.

In terms of gameplay, those are my gripes about 2.1. It's the last one that really makes gearing up a fresh 70 with no twink gear really sting. The GR situation? That's not caused by the DH being ahead, it's caused by the players getting one shot at those levels and the disparity is caused by each class' general ability to avoid said one shot deaths. In terms of spread, those numbers are actually in a relatively good spot overall. Now the devs need to rethink how they scale in GRs. Drothvader has a good thread on that which I provided input for as well so I won't put it here.

09/02/2014 02:56 PMPosted by Jook
all your dhs are beyond terribly geared if i was as !@#$ geared as you i wouldnt think my class was that strong either


Outside of M4/M6 we aren't in a good spot. We generate so slowly that once we hit empty we're always running on fumes unless we get a health globe to fill us back up again via the Blood Vengeand passive and/or Reaper's Wraps bracers (usually both). Inability to sustain damage manually via our generator/spender cycle is what makes us weak outside of Marauder's.
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09/02/2014 02:17 PMPosted by OldPro
09/02/2014 01:21 PMPosted by PM5K
I don't have anything against DH's, but the build itself would likely remain the only build that players who roll DH's would play.

Wrong. Look at my profile on this account (I have 3 accounts, all with different classes and builds).

I have 3 distinctly different DH builds on this account, and I enjoy playing every one of them. Each has a specific purpose.

Protagoness does T6 Rifts to find Legs (for Souls for crafting and such) and GRifts (to level up Legendary Gems).

SgtStrafer does Normal Bounties, to look for the next RoRG, Gloves of Worship, and Illusory Boots.

KeymonHunter is a general purpose Demon Hunter that I use for anything. She has about 5M Toughness and about 1.2M Damage (but zero elemental damage...lol).

It all depends on the player. If the player is one of those weak-minded jealous types, they'll roll the strongest build of any given class, then cry incessantly for nerfs to all the other classes.

If they are like me, they'll roll whatever they like playing, play it, and to hell with whatever other players are doing; it matters not one bit.


The point I was making is generally, but not always - your eclectic choices for DH's is proof, people make builds to run T6 efficiently. As far as I know M6 is the only one that accomplishes this. I just wouldn't mind seeing a gear buff to some class-only legs. M6 shouldn't be the only viable option for T6.
09/02/2014 01:13 PMPosted by OldPro
...

Firstly, nobody cares about your thread. Your analysis is flawed.

I care about his thread, so your statement is not simply "flawed," you are just wrong.

(truncated out, relinked here: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14059216736 )

09/02/2014 04:15 AMPosted by Azwrath
Secondly, your thread shows a large gap between DH and the other classes. 2 or 3 GR levels is an ENORMOUS difference.

Then as soon as you look at the numbers of players at each corresponding GR level you will see the real story - a horde of DH players sitting above everyone else.

This gap is not going to close, unless significant changes are made. Instead of wasting everyone's time trying to say "time will fix this" (nope, only a patch will fix this), why don't you enjoy your time with your beloved DH while you can?

At the end of the day I say, so what? Are players of other classes so petty that they simply cannot enjoy playing their class unless they can do just as well or better than everyone else?

It all comes down to what I have been saying all along; the flawed psychology of these few players. Jealously, envy, anger, immaturity, lack of self confidence, poor self-image, and a giant inferiority complex.

It hasn't really got anything to do with the game.


I love how the most compelling argument you can put together is "this other thread agrees with me so you're wrong".

Let me get this straight:

You start a thread with cherry picked data trying to suggest that DH isn't miles ahead of any other class (clue: they are).

Myself and multiple other posters call you out on it, with data that shows the real story to support it. Your response is "So what? Other classes should just deal with it".

Did I get that right? Cool.

Now that we're on the same page, let me say that it has everything to do with the game. It has nothing to do with jealousy. There are 6 classes in this game. I want to enjoy the game to the fullest with all 6. Not just DH because Blizzard said so.

Great straw man argument you have going, inferiority complex, flawed psychology and all that.

Why don't we call a spade a spade and just agree that you're trying to protect your beloved class?

I don't support nerfs, but this is getting ridiculous.
09/02/2014 03:09 PMPosted by TheTias
As a fresh or HC player, Ramaladni's Gift is pure frustration in a bottle all shaken up with the cork aimed squarely at our eyes. Take my HC DH for example. I had an OK weapon, but it has no socket and I have no CHD bonuses on gear. I'm just not getting any drops, period and it sucks. But oh wait, I could probably go up a difficulty or two for better drops if, oh I dunno, had a socket added to the weapon from the use of Ramaladni's Gift. I've gotten one DH weapon out of 15 or so legendaries (tons and tons of rings which are WAY too heavily weighted on the drop tables), and it's a Dawn with no socket also. Brick walls suck. Torment lockouts on Ramaladni's Gift sucks more because it just exacerbates an already frustrating situation.

Recall at the beginning when everyone complained that Torment difficulties didn't feel rewarding enough?

Remember how Blizzard removed all class-specific and some other items from all the other difficulties and made them Torment only?

They didn't make Torment any more rewarding; it could already drop all those things. They just made all the other difficulties less rewarding. but look! As if by magic, Torment now feels more rewarding only when compared to non-torment difficulties. Otherwise, it's exactly the same as it always has been. But now, the difficulties you have to play to get to Torment give you less of what you need to get there.

I tell you; these devs just have a bass ackwards way of thinking about things.
09/02/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Wolverine
And if the situation the other way around you would be no different. You'd want DH to be better than everyone else (jealousy) lol Don't act like mr. goodbar you are human too and you're just making excuses to not get DH nerfed. To bad so sad though cause IT'S COMING bwwahahahahahah. ;)


Seriously, for the 9239874687435th time, this is RoS patch 2.1 we are talking about, not your level 60 vanilla so anything you say means horsesh*t.

You don't even know how its like to be level 70 or with paragon levels or have any idea how the items or skills work past level 60, who are you to say anything? Its not even the same game we are talking about.

Take your silly childish comments which holds no weight whatsoever and gtfo.

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