Formal Firebird damage formula?

Wizard
Remember seeing one a while ago, but can't find it. Did I get this right as the basis for the Firebird cap?

(Sheet DPS / APS) * Fire Elemental Bonus % * Elite Damage * 30

Three questions for clarity:
1. +% Skill Damage bonuses only apply if they are the like of Magic Weapon or Sparkflint, i.e.visibly affect sheet DPS, correct?

2. Skill specific % skill damage, and situational (i.e. non visible on sheet DPS buffs like Dynamo, Audacity, +% Arcane Orb and etc., Elemental Exposure, etc.) boosts do NOT affect apply to the Firebird cap, but they effectively let you stack up to the said cap faster, right?

3. Does the Firebord DoT snapshot sheet DPS at the initial application of the DoT? Most notably, does stuff like Power Conduit or Unwavering Will.
This is what I've gathered from reading the forums.

The firebird DoT ticks every 0.8 seconds so to find out what it's ticking for on average you would want to multiply by 0.8

1. sparkflint, magic weapon, etc will visibly effect the dps sheet. so do passives except for audacity. if you leave the range for audacity the DoT will decrease in strength.

2. Firebird's dot is %weapon damage so any bonus damage you get from skills likely isn't factored in to the 3000% max, but it speeds up the rate at which you reach that 3000% if you use those skills.

3. Yes, it most likely snapshots your damage at the beginning. Includes buffs from unwavering will or other channelling damage increases.

**Edited a few things I was wrong about.
@ OP pretty much, though there are plenty of damage buffs that don't show on your sheet like cold blooded, strongarms, elemental eposure, bone chill, ect that all stack additively with sparkflint, and magic weapon ect....

08/29/2014 12:12 PMPosted by Nasreth
3. No. It's a fluid calculation.


You sure about this? I thought it snapshotted everything except audacity.
08/29/2014 12:12 PMPosted by Nasreth
This is what I've gathered from reading the forums.

The firebird DoT ticks every 0.8 seconds so to find out what it's ticking for on average you would want to multiply by 0.8

1. sparkflint, magic weapon, etc will visibly effect the dps sheet. so do passives except for audacity. if you move then you lose your unwavering will and the DoT will decrease in strength. if you leave the range for audacity the DoT will decrease in strength.

2. Firebird's dot is %weapon damage so any bonus damage you get from skills likely isn't factored in to the 3000% max, but it speeds up the rate at which you reach that 3000% if you use those skills.

3. No. It's a fluid calculation.


I don't know about any of the other info, but moving with Unwavering Will does not decrease the DoT. Tested it multiple times.
08/29/2014 12:17 PMPosted by BDF
@ OP pretty much, though there are plenty of damage buffs that don't show on your sheet like cold blooded, strongarms, elemental eposure, bone chill, ect that all stack additively with sparkflint, and magic weapon ect....

3. No. It's a fluid calculation.


You sure about this? I thought it snapshotted everything except audacity.


As said, just repeating stuff I've read. I don't have the chestpiece yet and haven't tested so I can certainly be wrong.

I'll edit my post about the unwavering will and snapshot.
@ OP pretty much, though there are plenty of damage buffs that don't show on your sheet like cold blooded, strongarms, elemental eposure, bone chill, ect that all stack additively with sparkflint, and magic weapon ect....

Hm, the addictiveness of those things with SparkFlint/Magic Weapon style buffs is what confuses me, really.

Like, Dynamo is additive, but I most certainly do not see a cap increase in the range of +50% of the DoT. Should be able to test better today now that the DoT is consistent.
08/29/2014 12:27 PMPosted by konfeta
Like, Dynamo is additive, but I most certainly do not see a cap increase in the range of +50% of the DoT. Should be able to test better today now that the DoT is consistent.


Actually I'm pretty sure Dynamo has been changed to multiplicative in 2.1 :P
Ooh, it is. Blazar stacks Firebird in 1 crit with Dynamo buff.
So the firebird dot doesn't increase anymore from the amount of damage dealt?

Like before if you had a massive arcane dynamo blazar crit hit the dot would continue to tick a much larger amount.

So now all that big damage does is get the dot started faster but it still goes back to ticking from that formula?
08/29/2014 12:18 PMPosted by Tommerbob
This is what I've gathered from reading the forums.

The firebird DoT ticks every 0.8 seconds so to find out what it's ticking for on average you would want to multiply by 0.8

1. sparkflint, magic weapon, etc will visibly effect the dps sheet. so do passives except for audacity. if you move then you lose your unwavering will and the DoT will decrease in strength. if you leave the range for audacity the DoT will decrease in strength.

2. Firebird's dot is %weapon damage so any bonus damage you get from skills likely isn't factored in to the 3000% max, but it speeds up the rate at which you reach that 3000% if you use those skills.

3. No. It's a fluid calculation.


I don't know about any of the other info, but moving with Unwavering Will does not decrease the DoT. Tested it multiple times.


Strange because my DOT actually changes as I move around w/ Zei's
Alright, I finally got around to doing some labbing. Also, my Blazar comment was dumb and poorly tested and poorly Firebug's description read. You need to do 9000% damage to do activate the infinite DoT.

(Sheet DPS / APS) * Fire Elemental Bonus % * Elite Damage * 30

This formula is entirely correct for calculating actual final DPS cap of the DoT.

1. It snapshots your sheet DPS, for the purpose of determining final cap of the DoT. There is wonkiness with different skills, however.

2. Audacity and Zei's Vengeance dynamically update the DoT's damage relative to your position. They seem to be using he same code. It's nifty. This means even after the DoT is capped, they alter the tic damage.

Update: Bane of the Trapped dynamically updates the DoT damage as well. Nifty gem.

3. Flameblade's buff affects it; counts for snapshotting.

4. Familiar and Magic Weapon count towards the DoT cap. Bane of the Powerful gem also works fully.

5. % bonuses to specific skill do not affect the cap. Taegguk, Unwavering Will, Spellsteal do not affect the cap either.

6. Firebug performs the snapshot at the roll over point, when the DoT becomes infinite. This is where you want to time your damage amping debuffs to be affecting the target - things like Bonechill, Elemental Exposure, Coldblooded, Timewarp, Galeforce etc. This is important to time, because these things have no impact on the DoT damage after it snapshots into an infinite DoT.

P.S. The DoT's leash range seems to be about a screen and a half? If you go beyond that, the DoT evaporates.
Thanks, definitely some changes from last night. I specifically tested before the hot fix if magic weapon affected it, and it wasn't...
Great work konfeta! Some questions:

1. You say "all other % damage boosts have no effect" - did you test Frost Nova (Bone Chill)? I'm fairly certain that snapshots, but may be wrong.

2. Does this mean Zei's Vengeance is a multiplicative buff that's separate from skill/element/elite bonuses? If so that makes it one of the best possible gems.

3. Same questions as #2 except for Bane of the Trapped.
Deleting this one, tests based on a misunderstanding of the second snapshot mechanic.

The mechanics nerds say that the Zei/Trapped gems are multiplicative.
08/30/2014 01:09 AMPosted by konfeta
Oh, thanks for reminding me, I knew I missed a skill. Frost Nova Bone Chill does not affect the cap.

Really?

I just tested it myself on Ghom. Without Bone Chill I had a permanent 59 mil DOT. With Bone Chill I had a permanent 76 mil DOT.

Could you double check?

EDIT: This is sounding like the same weird (buggy?) snapshot results we were getting in the PTR...
Deleting this one, tests based on a misunderstanding of the second snapshot mechanic.
When are you casting Frost Nova? Are you sure you're doing it just before the cap is reached?

In my own testing I needed 5 seconds of Disintegrate and then a crit Meteor (Molten Impact) in order to reliably reach the cap. Casting Frost Nova right before the meteor hits made Bone Chill snapshot.
I may be wrong, but i am pretty sure it is Raw Damage and not Damage per Second which is used for the cap.

The last time i tested it (2 days ago), i got consistent superior results for my 2H, vs my 1h + Offhand. Despite the fact that the 1h setup had extra 40% fire damage.

Do you mind checking it out.

Also i am pretty sure EE, Spell Steal, Bone Chill and other dynamic bonuses are calculated at the moment of the tick and going over the cap.
firebird dot snapshots when the rolling dot switches to the permanent dot. we already tested all this stuff on the ptr, if you apply your debuffs too early they will wear off before you max the dot, meaning no snapshot

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