Pet constantly dying.

Witch Doctor
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It's fine, right now we're not great, but someone has to be worst class. Just means we'll eventually get buffs. I love pet builds so I'll just tough it out til then.
I wouldn't say it's the worst time to be the worst. Although higher greater rifts represent the current highest difficulty of content, I would still say they're a more lateral addition due to the rewards. Being unable to complete T6 back when RoS first hit would've been a lot worse, but luckily that wasn't the case. With Greater Rifts, there's no incentive for ascension into higher levels besides leaderboard position and upgrading gems, and gems can be upgraded by any class, so there's not much to fret about there.

What I like the most about Greater Rifts is the team aspect; coordination and integration of support-focused builds that were never necessary for T6 unless you were undergeared is fun and refreshing. In teams that contain a good support/mob lockdown player, pets still do nicely and so does BBV buff, so there's that. You can also collect some gear for the Tiklandian Visage support build which is definitely a change of pace.
09/11/2014 03:38 PMPosted by smokeypoo
I wouldn't say it's the worst time to be the worst. Although higher greater rifts represent the current highest difficulty of content, I would still say they're a more lateral addition due to the rewards. Being unable to complete T6 back when RoS first hit would've been a lot worse, but luckily that wasn't the case. With Greater Rifts, there's no incentive for ascension into higher levels besides leaderboard position and upgrading gems, and gems can be upgraded by any class, so there's not much to fret about there.

What I like the most about Greater Rifts is the team aspect; coordination and integration of support-focused builds that were never necessary for T6 unless you were undergeared is fun and refreshing. In teams that contain a good support/mob lockdown player, pets still do nicely and so does BBV buff, so there's that. You can also collect some gear for the Tiklandian Visage support build which is definitely a change of pace.

Oh yeah, I agree. I just 1) love pet class, 2) dislike random multi-player, and 3) like pushing end-game content so I'm kinda left out right now. No big deal, they'll get around to fixing it (or not), there are other things I can do in the meantime.
Hey everyone. We’re in the process of doing a review of Rift Guardian abilities and extremely damaging monster abilities in regards to the amount pets take. Our philosophy on pet survivability can be summed up as follows:

Pets should be roughly as survivable as the player. There’s a lot to this statement so let me clarify a bit:
  • Pets should scale with your survivability stats. They currently scale with most of your stats but not all of them. This is being worked on.
  • Pets should derive their Toughness from yours, and if you skip out on it, your pets’ survivability should be noticeably lower as a result. On the flip side, they should be noticeably tougher if you’ve increased your own Toughness. You shouldn’t skimp on Toughness just because you have pets.
  • We don’t want pets to be invulnerable tanks. In the live environment pets are too squishy, but even after our review is done in a future patch, if your pets are still dying a lot, we want you to be looking to increase your Toughness, which will consequently increase your pets' survivability.

To work towards the first goal, Pets should take reduced damage based on how avoidable the monster attack normally is for a player. This is done instead of giving pets AI to run away from damaging attacks, which would cause them to lose out on DPS time. These monster attacks exist in a spectrum but roughly fall into 3 categories:
  • Full damage to pets - Basic melee/weak projectile attacks, not expected to be always avoided by a player.
  • Reduced damage to pets - Special attacks such as fireballs, which typically deal more damage than a basic attack, are pretty bright and visible, and can sometimes be avoided by the player. Good example are Perdition’s volley attack or Agnidox’s fireballs.
  • Drastically reduced damage to pets - Persistent AoEs for which the player is intended to move out of quickly or highly-telegraphed attacks for which the player is intended to avoid altogether. Examples are Thunderstorm monster affix, Mallet Lord’s arm attack, or Morlu meteors.

We’re not at our goal yet but are actively working towards it. Though the vast majority of monsters abilities in the game already follow these guidelines, we’ve identified a number of monsters abilities (e.g. Mallet Lord’s arm attack and some others mentioned in this thread and elsewhere) which don’t, and we will be addressing them in a future patch.
@John Yang, sounds great. Thank you.

Is there any review on the WD survival himself? E.g. getting 1-shot by Jailer affix.
Thanks for the update.
Since this looks like a non-trivial patch to implement, would it be possible to see a simpler short term solution?

Something as simple as making pets immune to aoe type damage or just buffing enforcer to 75%+ damage reduction?
09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
Pets should be roughly as survivable as the player. There’s a lot to this statement so let me clarify a bit:

Pets should scale with your survivability stats. They currently scale with most of your stats but not all of them. This is being worked on.
Pets should derive their Toughness from yours, and if you skip out on it, your pets’ survivability should be noticeably lower as a result. On the flip side, they should be noticeably tougher if you’ve increased your own Toughness. You shouldn’t skimp on Toughness just because you have pets.


So, how is it right now?

'cause I'm pretty sure I'm running enough armor and allres.
add Executioner's cleave hug to that "Drastically reduced damage to pets" list plz.

and like PaulNG said, anything on WD him / herself?
Can you guys do something about Electrify and Reflect for Carnevil builds?
Scav - He sad they are working on that being the goal so it isn't a thing atm

Sounds like a good philosophy and I'm okay with it.
finally.
But i don't like the idea that pets would scale with players toughness.
If you already tough = pets simply not so "needed". lol. They are specifically meant to be meat shields instead of squishy wd player as well as DPS dealers. They just need to survive more AOEs somehow and maybe divide damage between themselves. For example if mallet lord hits 5 fetishes not all of them get 100% but each gets 20%.
09/12/2014 12:20 PMPosted by MedinaTV
Scav - He sad they are working on that being the goal so it isn't a thing atm

Sounds like a good philosophy and I'm okay with it.


Is it too much to ask to get clarity on that statement at least?

09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
They currently scale with most of your stats but not all of them.
09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
Pets should be roughly as survivable as the player. There’s a lot to this statement so let me clarify a bit:
[ul]
  • Pets should scale with your survivability stats. They currently scale with most of your stats but not all of them. This is being worked on.
  • Pets should derive their Toughness from yours, and if you skip out on it, your pets’ survivability should be noticeably lower as a result. On the flip side, they should be noticeably tougher if you’ve increased your own Toughness. You shouldn’t skimp on Toughness just because you have pets.


  • I'm not sure if you're looking for player feedback on this topic, but to help us understand the current situation with pet toughness scaling vs. where it could potentially be, could you please list the stats which are currently taken into account and those that are not (but you're planning to update)?
    09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
    Drastically reduced damage to pets - Persistent AoEs for which the player is intended to move out of quickly or highly-telegraphed attacks for which the player is intended to avoid altogether. Examples are Thunderstorm monster affix, Mallet Lord’s arm attack, or Morlu meteors.


    Thank you so much! These are the affixes that can wipe out my fetishes in 1 second or less in higher Tier Rifts.

    I always run with 10-12 mil toughness so I'm pretty sure that's not the issue.
    Sounds great, sounds like the main issues are being addressed. Hopefully Jailer is looked at, as well as charging moves such as Anarchs/Corrupted Angels.
    09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
    Hey everyone. We’re in the process of doing a review of Rift Guardian abilities and extremely damaging monster abilities in regards to the amount pets take. Our philosophy on pet survivability can be summed up as follows:

    Pets should be roughly as survivable as the player. There’s a lot to this statement so let me clarify a bit:
    • Pets should scale with your survivability stats. They currently scale with most of your stats but not all of them. This is being worked on.
    • Pets should derive their Toughness from yours, and if you skip out on it, your pets’ survivability should be noticeably lower as a result. On the flip side, they should be noticeably tougher if you’ve increased your own Toughness. You shouldn’t skimp on Toughness just because you have pets.
    • We don’t want pets to be invulnerable tanks. In the live environment pets are too squishy, but even after our review is done in a future patch, if your pets are still dying a lot, we want you to be looking to increase your Toughness, which will consequently increase your pets' survivability.

    To work towards the first goal, Pets should take reduced damage based on how avoidable the monster attack normally is for a player. This is done instead of giving pets AI to run away from damaging attacks, which would cause them to lose out on DPS time. These monster attacks exist in a spectrum but roughly fall into 3 categories:
    • Full damage to pets - Basic melee/weak projectile attacks, not expected to be always avoided by a player.
    • Reduced damage to pets - Special attacks such as fireballs, which typically deal more damage than a basic attack, are pretty bright and visible, and can sometimes be avoided by the player. Good example are Perdition’s volley attack or Agnidox’s fireballs.
    • Drastically reduced damage to pets - Persistent AoEs for which the player is intended to move out of quickly or highly-telegraphed attacks for which the player is intended to avoid altogether. Examples are Thunderstorm monster affix, Mallet Lord’s arm attack, or Morlu meteors.

    We’re not at our goal yet but are actively working towards it. Though the vast majority of monsters abilities in the game already follow these guidelines, we’ve identified a number of monsters abilities (e.g. Mallet Lord’s arm attack and some others mentioned in this thread and elsewhere) which don’t, and we will be addressing them in a future patch.


    How about a review on the abilities and how it impacts the viability of melee classes?
    09/12/2014 12:12 PMPosted by PaulNg
    @John Yang, sounds great. Thank you.

    Is there any review on the WD survival himself? E.g. getting 1-shot by Jailer affix.

    There's a gem for that. Get one.
    If you made "pets" all auto revive like the Ally or DH's pets I don't think we will have this dying problem. But I have to ask: WHAT have you guys done to Mirror Images?

    Those are now USELESS. They used to use basic attacks so at least they taunt some enemies, now they just stand behind me. Aren't they suppose to be my shields?

    Could you at least make them so they have the same APS as me so when I have magic missile they will do something. If I have explosive blast or those blades they should run up to melee range...

    And if you guys are going to make them disappear I don't think they should be destroyed since you don't even give them a proper HP bar. Phalanx is what I want to see out of those. Can't be killed, but can be target and cannot be cc (frozen, etc.) Pretty much like Hydra or Sentry except those can't be target or destroyed or moved = no direct defense support.

    09/12/2014 12:03 PMPosted by John Yang
    Hey everyone. We’re in the process of doing a review of Rift Guardian abilities and extremely damaging monster abilities in regards to the amount pets take. Our philosophy on pet survivability can be summed up as follows:
    Let me ask you game designer guys something if yall dont mind. Has it ever been considered to make pets of some kind available to all characters? Let me explain why.

    I think pets have the ability to have alot more depth then they do. What i mean by that is they should be on the same level item, skill and slot wise as followers. Pets can have specialty items with special powers, they can also have a bit of vanity appeal and customization like transmogs. Want a wolf or alien instead of a fetish? Heck ya get er done!

    So my other question is, is there any considerations being done to bring more depth to pets in this regard? because they have alot of potential for depth, alot of options to explore.
    This is good news for barbs as well, often our ancients out dps the character vs tv.

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