@Blizzard Please Change Jailer!

General Discussion
I am glad other feel the same about it.
09/09/2014 12:52 AMPosted by Noomi
The REAL problem is the devs don't experience this because they don't play the game.. and when they do its sub GR 20 where all damage is meaningless and thus think its fine.. and even if they did.. they'd just say well thats what the cameo is for.. which totally invalidates the hellfire amulets they spent however much development time on.. lol?


Yeah... many flaws that exist in D3 really do make you wonder if they ever play their own game. And if they do.. how much / far in do they really play!?
09/09/2014 12:34 AMPosted by OldPro
It was a "by comparison of design." The reason Diablo's jail attack works the way it does is because it has been working like that since it was originally designed. This dev team has not changed it, thus, it still works.

What I was saying had more to do with the context of storyline. If an elite's jail can 1-shot (without telegraphing) and Sheablo's cant, wouldn't Sheablo demand to be taught its secrets? Why would she even mount an assault on anything if her skills were sub-par?
Trade for a "julias cameo" dumbass!... Oh wait -.-
Bump
Jailor + Frozen is quite strong at the moment. Makes it quite risky to swap out Saffron Wrap. At least that can be countered somewhat with CC reduction.

There is currently no counter to Vortex. Should probably make CC reduction work on the pull distance of Vortex I think.
Vortex isn't that bad as it doesn't damage half as much damage jailer does. I do agree the Frozen DoT as it charges up is very strong, but even then if you have good enough reflexes you could dodge of out it.

Electrified for melees is deadly, I have seen electrified get out of control and fill the map with bolts, but even then you can counter it.
09/10/2014 01:22 AMPosted by Techi

Electrified for melees is deadly, I have seen electrified get out of control and fill the map with bolts, but even then you can counter it.


Okay i'll bite, how do us melee characters counter electrified because i'm really interested to know? (or firechains for the matter)
The worst part is that the mechanics for a viable and interesting alternative are already there in the form of Diablo's telegraphed bone prison.

While we're on the topic of changing elite affixes... Electrified is completely out of control for melee characters. Your options for high GR electrified enemies are as follows.

1. You skip the pack completely.

2. You die horribly if you so much as sneeze near them.

Electrified needs some adjustments made to make the experience interesting as well as challenging, instead of just frustrating and unbeatable. Either it needs to be a buff that actually has a cool down, like reflects damage or shielding. Or it needs an ICD, or it needs to release bolts in a pattern ala Attenuation (Imperial Vizier Zor'lok from HoF in WoW). Or for the buff to be shut down while they're hard cc'd. Or something along these lines.

Simply blowing you up because you're melee is not fun, not fair and not even challenging - we just skip literally every single electrified pack in GR30+ because it's utterly pointless to try. There are literally no viable options apart from Xeph - which is not an option for most us, because it's rare as !@#$. Not a good design decision. Tsk tsk, Blizzard. How this made it through your lengthy beta is completely beyond me.

End rant.
if it was that bad people wouldn't have been able to progress to grift level 42 or so.

so it's l2play issue
09/08/2014 07:20 PMPosted by Techi
I would like a blue post on this.


"So melee classes have a hard time avoid damage taken. Because they’re right in the middle. Ranged classes can deal damage around corners, with pets while they’re far away and avoiding trouble, etc. We don’t like that. That’s very specifically why things like Thunderstorm and Jailer do damage immediately. If a DH or Wizard can get to GR40 with all DPS and 5m toughness, we don’t like that. That’s unfair since the melee classes can’t do that.

So we want to paper cut you. So all complaints about Jailer doing too much damage? That’s on purpose. It’s how we even out the disparity between the classes."

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-3-developer-live-stream-transcript

I think his logic is silly as jailer oneshots melee too, but there you have it.
09/10/2014 02:03 AMPosted by shadey
if it was that bad people wouldn't have been able to progress to grift level 42 or so.

so it's l2play issue


Haha obviously you haven't gotten to that point yet. Most of the Top GRift runners are spamming Trials to look for that one good one with slow attacking, slow moving zombies plus conduit shrines.

Trust me, they failed a lot before they got to that point and I bet you they couldn't deal with Jailers that easily.
09/10/2014 02:06 AMPosted by Glorfindel
09/08/2014 07:20 PMPosted by Techi
I would like a blue post on this.


"So melee classes have a hard time avoid damage taken. Because they’re right in the middle. Ranged classes can deal damage around corners, with pets while they’re far away and avoiding trouble, etc. We don’t like that. That’s very specifically why things like Thunderstorm and Jailer do damage immediately. If a DH or Wizard can get to GR40 with all DPS and 5m toughness, we don’t like that. That’s unfair since the melee classes can’t do that.

So we want to paper cut you. So all complaints about Jailer doing too much damage? That’s on purpose. It’s how we even out the disparity between the classes."

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/diablo-3-developer-live-stream-transcript

I think his logic is silly as jailer oneshots melee too, but there you have it.


Ya Jailers one shot melees too. If that is the case I have another suggestion:
Give a visual warning/telegraph but make it so either the visual warning/telegraph procs faster when you are further away or make it a bigger area the further away it is.

So melees can dodge jailers easier than ranged can.
blizzs concept
players with the bag open permantly while timing resistance amu according to affix

moving around to avoid damage is too easy in blizzs point of view
09/10/2014 03:51 AMPosted by Ren
blizzs concept
players with the bag open permantly while timing resistance amu according to affix

moving around to avoid damage is too easy in blizzs point of view


Sadly that isn't possible in GRifts
Jailer would be bad enough without the damage.. It always seems to pair up with jailer / freeze or jailer / mortor.

It does make me laugh sometimes. I used to play my old 0 dog and and freeze wizard. Those builds were removed / nerfed or whatever since they were not intended game play design (aka. exploit builds). Yet, the new elite affixes can be just as bad at times. Get a horde pack or multiple elites and at low levels you can sometimes almost be perma jailed, wallers can completely trap you and mortared to death / desecrated / arcaned or all of them.

There are quite a few times these affixes create impossible scenarios that don't have any possible way to escape it. So is this intended game play design?

I see more times an efficient group is one that has enough DPS to clear an elite pack in the first 30 seconds before they start deploying their attacks. A weaker group pays the price since they are in battle longer and eventually sucumb to these affixes. Or you tank out so much that you have no damage to complete a high level anyway. There is not strategy in that. Sometimes yes but a lot of times it's demolish or kite.
09/10/2014 04:16 AMPosted by Shockwave
Jailer would be bad enough without the damage.. It always seems to pair up with jailer / freeze or jailer / mortor.

It does make me laugh sometimes. I used to play my old 0 dog and and freeze wizard. Those builds were removed / nerfed or whatever since they were not intended game play design (aka. exploit builds). Yet, the new elite affixes can be just as bad at times. Get a horde pack or multiple elites and at low levels you can sometimes almost be perma jailed, wallers can completely trap you and mortared to death / desecrated / arcaned or all of them.

There are quite a few times these affixes create impossible scenarios that don't have any possible way to escape it. So is this intended game play design?

I see more times an efficient group is one that has enough DPS to clear an elite pack in the first 30 seconds before they start deploying their attacks. A weaker group pays the price since they are in battle longer and eventually sucumb to these affixes. Or you tank out so much that you have no damage to complete a high level anyway. There is not strategy in that. Sometimes yes but a lot of times it's demolish or kite.


The thing about Jailer is the fact that it is unavoidable damage. No matter how skilled you are at whatever class you are playing, there is no way for you to avoid Jailers. Mortars are the perfect example on how these affixes should like interms of it showing where you need to be to avoid the damage. Mortars are so much weaker than Jailers but yet you get the chance to avoid them when Jailers are just a random one shot?
Jesus! So that's why my character dies when jailed. I just thought I got hit by something else. Damn!
Blizzard never tests the stuff they make anyway.

If Boon of Hoarder + Goldwrap is working as intended ... well ... I guess I will just forget resistance and armor for everything except GR.
09/10/2014 04:24 AMPosted by Techi
The thing about Jailer is the fact that it is unavoidable damage.


I have a set of ice climbers that's immune to jailer. I don't remember if it avoids the damage though. I'll try that next time I play.

That with the new set bracers (Krelms Buff) to be immune to knockback and vortex. I think we might have to run the ammy for cold immunity also. I can get away with this those and still maintain my set bonus on Wizard but lose some fire damage on my gloves with swapping in a firebirds set piece.

I have those items in stash (except bracers) but unfortunately they are bad rolls and lose a lot of DPS in the process.

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