Breakable Sentries

Demon Hunter
I've offered up so many suggestions man :(
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
I hardly play DH anymore because I don't want to take advantage of this broken game mechanics.


Then go play other DH builds.
Silly question, but could it be as simple as multiplying spender damage by 4X and sentry damage by 1/4, or 3X and 1/3? I think part of the problem is not just m6, but also rucksack. Id have a lot of fun using the new BL quiver, but the missing 2 sentries kill my dps.

I like the m6 build, but there needs to be a way to engage us so we are not hiding behind walls and corners. I think dropping a few sentries then straffing or RFing a pack down would be a lot more fun. I finally found a krider, so I do selfcast all the time, even in my one g39 attempt.

Also, for the love of, get rid of instant unavoidable damage. It kills engagement and fun. Jailer, Frozen, and Tstorm need some serious adjustment. I have no idea why they don't ramp up like desecrate or plague.

edit: The reason I want to massively boost our spender (and generator) damage is so other builds become viable again. The effective dps output of sentries would be the same, but we would become much more powerful than our sentries instead of doing piddly damage compared to them. I really miss my RF/Spike trap build.
They have a very easy to tweak knob in the built in ICD on the spender fire. it's currently at 2 seconds. They could adjust it to 2.5, 3, 3.5, etc on the fire. Whatever they feel is necessary tuning wise.

This would allow them to hit the damage output of M6 while also allowing them to adjust the damage and costs of other skills, such as the spenders which are incredibly weak individually, and offer new legendaries in the next season to make other builds worthwhile.

Example: They could boost the damage of Elemental Arrow to 450% from 300% and at the same time, increase the Marauder's rate of fire from 2 to 4. Not meaning this to suggest exact numbers, but an example of how they could nerf the effect a bit while buffing others and not totally break the bonus.
09/16/2014 02:04 PMPosted by Bullettime
They have a very easy to tweak knob in the built in ICD on the spender fire. it's currently at 2 seconds. They could adjust it to 2.5, 3, 3.5, etc on the fire. Whatever they feel is necessary tuning wise.

This would allow them to hit the damage output of M6 while also allowing them to adjust the damage and costs of other skills, such as the spenders which are incredibly weak individually, and offer new legendaries in the next season to make other builds worthwhile.

Example: They could boost the damage of Elemental Arrow to 450% from 300% and at the same time, increase the Marauder's rate of fire from 2 to 4. Not meaning this to suggest exact numbers, but an example of how they could nerf the effect a bit while buffing others and not totally break the bonus.


Changing the ICD can be tricky and could easily blow up in their face, and I can almost guarantee that is exactly what it will do if they go that route. Remember that they buffed the M6 for that very reason before as as of RoS M6 sucked, it wasn't until 2.05 (I believe) that they fixed things (or broke them depending on who you ask).

They have no need to even touch ICDs , there is an easy fix that almost no one seems to consider. They could simply modify the 6 piece bonus to be spenders fire at 75% damage (or any other value below their current damage level) then tweak up the spenders and generators upward for the class as a whole.

Either way the real problem really has little to do with the damage of M6, it only ramps up beyond the other classes when you manage to get more sentries on the ground, before 3 or so other classes can actually do the same level of damage (or more), ever played with a phalanx crusader? Hell even a shotgun one can clobber things faster if they can stand right in front of their target, and survive.

The developers have the primary issues with M6 nailed, and they have said it, its about survivability, the damn things let the DH stay around the corner filing her nails while they annihilate anything in their own due time. The problem is that the argument starts there and eventually degenerates to the path of least resistance that sentries are too powerful instead of how does one deal with the fact that they act as a proxy without screwing up the set's damage. (not singling out any person in this thread, just noting a pattern on many M6 related threads)

back to the subject at hand, I don't think breakable sentries is the way to fix this, unless the cooldown is dropped from them, as what will happen is you will drop a sentry and it will get annihilated before you can place another, we will be back down to GR34-35 along with the WDs at that point. If you were to remove the Cool Down then your hatred generation would again be important as you would need to keep that globe filled or you couldn't get your sentries down fast enough to keep up with the losses. Hell even Kirus' suggestion of them having a disipline reduction cost, with which I disagree, could be an option as well.

At the moment there is no easy fix for this, even the above one probably wouldn't be a particularly good one, it would still likely put the class at the WD level at best due to the attrition of sentries because of the 30 hatred cost and constant smashing of them by the area's critters in upper GRifts.

The honest fact is that they are going to have to adjust a number of knobs to fix this, not just one. Off the top of my head, and mentioned in this and other threads, Hatred generation, some new sets and synergistic legendaries, dealing with the survivability without catastrophic class problems being created, And the way that the mobs work and a more effective way of difficulty adjustment partially dealing with this hit point/damage upward spiral that the game has become.
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
No sense of achievement, or accomplishment


Even if this game was so hard it had me sweating and bleeding until the end of the fight, I still would not feel like what I did was an achievement.
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
I hardly play DH anymore because I don't want to take advantage of this broken game mechanics


What a gentleman you are, the world is safer place because of you :)
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
That is basically broken game mechanics. All they did was place sentries and hide in the corner. There was no skill no fun no excitement at all. No sense of achievement, or accomplishment for having done ubers at T6. Just place sentries and hide, without firing a single shot themselves.


Breakable sentries is a terrible idea.
it doesn't really solve your concern about the way how sentries build be played.
this only introduce more questions/issue.. how tough we need the sentries be? where/how to draw the line?

if you dont like sentry build, play some other build...if you don't like kite/range, play other class.
playing sader? I think you found your solution already.
09/16/2014 09:22 AMPosted by DomonKassui
Sure as long as the sentries can be healed by teammates and potions too.
That's 5 more pets tanking damage for us.

Plus have sentries proc affixes, plus have them move and block path, just like other pets do.

If they're pets, let's make them pets. I'm all for it.

On the side note, players complaining about sentries and M6 obviously haven't tried them on GR36+ personally.
09/16/2014 09:49 AMPosted by LS1FRC
They would need to completely overhaul the class.

They are so squishy at 35+, you can't even take a second to stop moving to even self cast. Taking away sentries = you basically just may as well delete the class.

And there's someone who actually KNOWS about sentries, M6, and DH in higher GR levels.
09/16/2014 07:05 PMPosted by AOHNH
09/16/2014 09:22 AMPosted by DomonKassui
Sure as long as the sentries can be healed by teammates and potions too.
That's 5 more pets tanking damage for us.

Plus have sentries proc affixes, plus have them move and block path, just like other pets do.

If they're pets, let's make them pets. I'm all for it.

On the side note, players complaining about sentries and M6 obviously haven't tried them on GR36+ personally.


AOHNH, coming out of the woodwork... again.

Making baseless assumptions about people around him... again.
Action, still around, still pointless, still not able to use the grey cells properly.

No surprises here, still the same ol' bs from same ol' bs-ers....
sure OP... just give us instant 4 moving sentries and sentries that can help us tank..
People need to stop looking at leaderboards as a cry for nerf. Every class has players in their 40's now. Grant it, there are a ton more DH's, mostly everyone is playing a DH now and have abandoned all the other classes leaving the playerbase for those classes a lot smaller, so you're going to see a difference in numbers.

And really, who gives a !@#$ if a class is OP. This isn't WoW and there aren't damage meters and if a class, a class where you need very specific gear to do this damage, is killing %^-* faster than you, boo hoo.

And four portals in ten minutes? They must have been undergeared or spent a lot of time doing something else in between the fights. Anything T6 is a joke now.
09/17/2014 08:52 PMPosted by AuJo
sure OP... just give us instant 4 moving sentries and sentries that can help us tank..


They need to have the A.I to strategically place themselves in the optimum position too, i.e. further distance for zei, and close melee for polar sentries.
People stay calling nerf but if you wanna go that rough all classes are sorta crazy now days. Look at the leaderboards on seasons solo wize people are getting stronger and every day so that should get nerfed to righ?
I just really want to see standard DH buffed. Even with top tier gear with RCR out the !@# I still struggle with resources in T6 on my multishot build.

It just makes it so irritating to constantly be out of hatred while generators hit like pea shooters and generate practically zero hatred.

Not to mention DHs are punished for having two resources, stuff like Taeguk doesn't even proc from Discipline abilities even though every other class can use whatever abilities they like.
09/16/2014 01:32 PMPosted by krio
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
I hardly play DH anymore because I don't want to take advantage of this broken game mechanics.


Then go play other DH builds.


He won't be back to read your reply, typical hit and run rant.

I think the non-m6 challenge thread is interesting.
Going to try a few builds and give it a go.
Some guys in the thread are in the low-mid 30s without M6.
Nothing new here...
09/16/2014 09:04 AMPosted by Koleverii
Make those sentries breakable.

You better to be careful because your face ALREADY breakable.

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