Sorry guys, Dual Wield WW is dead. 2h > 1h

Barbarian
After extensive testing with WW and all of the weapon options on Gom, here are the results:

1. The Furnace: 43s avg kill time
2. Schaefer's Hammer: 52s avg
3. Odyn+Sunkeeper: 1:01 avg
4. Odyn+TF: 1:05 avg
5. Sunkeeper+TF: 1:11 avg

I don't have a Shard of Hate to test, but I can only guess it would be close to the Odyn+SK combo since its better single target than TF. Uptime on my Wreath of Lightning seems slightly better with dual wield, but the damage it deals is hands down better with 2h.

My AoE damage with 2h is better as well. Not sure how I can test it really, but the base damage is so much higher that the procs from Odyn/TF don't come anywhere near making up for it. I think the proc coefficients need to be bumped higher and the 1s ICD on TF needs to be removed.

Gear/skills didn't change between tests other than the weapons. All were ideal rolls with %damage (elite, elemental, or regular), str, and a socket w/ 130% crit. Most have middling damage ranges. On my profile the WW barb is currently wielding schaefer's, my EQ barb is using my furnace (I have since added a socket w/ ramaldni's but it wasn't there for the test) and my raekor barb's templar has the TF i used.

Also tested Ancient's damage with 1h, dual wield, and 2h.

- 1h: 3m avg crits
- DW: 5m avg crits
- 2h: 8m avg crits

They did attack somewhat faster with 1h and DW, but their damage output seems way higher with a 2h. I may test their kill times on Gom and just stand around doing nothing to make sure.
Don't use with titles like that.

On topic though, the #3 barb on non-season leaderboard is DW. So yeah it's not dead. Ghom tests mean very little, especially when they are done without top end gear.
09/14/2014 04:40 PMPosted by suddenZenith
Don't use with titles like that.

On topic though, the #3 barb on non-season leaderboard is DW. So yeah it's not dead. Ghom tests mean very little, especially when they are done without top end gear.


Ive seen his posts before and PUDGE is the character he used to get to #3. You know, the barb with Furnace equipped and near perfect gear? Sorry there chief, but just because he has a dual wielding barb, that does not mean it is the best, and it certainly is not evidence or even theorycrafting.

You'll have to do better than that.
So you tested a lightning ww build with one gem and determined every other element/gem combo to be substandard?
Looking at my build. Would a Schaefer's Hammer be better?
09/14/2014 04:53 PMPosted by Juggernaut
Ive seen his posts before and PUDGE is the character he used to get to #3. You know, the barb with Furnace equipped and near perfect gear? Sorry there chief, but just because he has a dual wielding barb, that does not mean it is the best, and it certainly is not evidence or even theorycrafting.

You'll have to do better than that.


Take another look. The character you see on the leaderboard uses two swords. It saves the appearance of the build you used to clear the rift. Nice try bro.

Yes raekor barb with 2h is the best. Doesn't mean there aren't good dual wield builds out there. DW is not "dead".

Feel free to continue testing on Ghom, and stay away from Greater Rifts, you might lose all your gold with the repair costs.
09/14/2014 05:56 PMPosted by RagingKoala
So you tested a lightning ww build with one gem and determined every other element/gem combo to be substandard?


I'm pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post. This has nothing to do with elements and gems, its a weapon test for Lightning WW. Did you even read any of it or just jump right in blindly screaming wild accusations?

Also, mirinae+wotb+furnace was the fastest kill at 20s. So no, I didn't run just one set of tests, but my gem testing didn't have much to do with 2h vs 1h and was too short to compare WEAPONS for the ONE BUILD I was trying to test for.

I'm kind of confused, are you guys serious or just trolling?
09/14/2014 06:37 PMPosted by suddenZenith
09/14/2014 04:53 PMPosted by Juggernaut
Ive seen his posts before and PUDGE is the character he used to get to #3. You know, the barb with Furnace equipped and near perfect gear? Sorry there chief, but just because he has a dual wielding barb, that does not mean it is the best, and it certainly is not evidence or even theorycrafting.

You'll have to do better than that.


Take another look. The character you see on the leaderboard uses two swords. It saves the appearance of the build you used to clear the rift. Nice try bro.

Yes raekor barb with 2h is the best. Doesn't mean there aren't good dual wield builds out there. DW is not "dead".

Feel free to continue testing on Ghom, and stay away from Greater Rifts, you might lose all your gold with the repair costs.


So you just admitted that DW is not as good as 2H. Are you even listening to yourself?
09/14/2014 06:38 PMPosted by Juggernaut
09/14/2014 05:56 PMPosted by RagingKoala
So you tested a lightning ww build with one gem and determined every other element/gem combo to be substandard?


I'm pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post. This has nothing to do with elements and gems, its a weapon test for Lightning WW. Did you even read any of it or just jump right in blindly screaming wild accusations?

Also, mirinae+wotb+furnace was the fastest kill at 20s. So no, I didn't run just one set of tests, but my gem testing didn't have much to do with 2h vs 1h and was too short to compare WEAPONS for the ONE BUILD I was trying to test for.

I'm kind of confused, are you guys serious or just trolling?


Nope I read your post, I saw "extensive testing" and also saw the title stating dw with ww was dead. Your extensive testing was anything but that if that's all the weapon combos you tried, and not testing any gem combos also leaves a lot out.

If this was a lightning only comparison, maybe state that in your op. The only time you even used the word lightning was to name the gem.

Try to be clear with what you are posting, try using exact stats instead of "ideal", and "middling" from that I gather your sk was a 22-23% bve with 2k dps which is trash tbh.

Seriously;
"after extensive testing with all weapon options...." followed by;
"I don't have an soh to try, but can only guess...."

Anyways have fun
Dude, do u have any clue on what your talking about....
I have to agree with the OP. While its far from "dead" it is incapable of the same level of survival or damage output as earthquake and raekors.

I can do 5 minute T6 rifts with my mediocre seasonal gear, so it is fun for that at least. I haven't pushed the limits of greater rifts with the build yet, but I'm sure it would cap out at mid 30s.

I cannot see any way to push more damage output without giving up too much survivability.
1H and raekors isnt fun tho.
I tried DW with WW when nubtro came out with the build - sunkeeper / doombringer, bk oath, and 3795k dps stalgards. sunkeeper / doombringer was good on ghom but in every other respect stalgard was superior - especially as density improved.

that said I'm doing DW on lightning raekor and I cleared 30s with it already. I did 33 with fire / maximus - obv. the charge hits harder but it doesn't mean dual wield is dead. Btw, if you go in game, and right click on your pic in top left, you hit view leaderboard, solo barb - you can see all the transmogs people are using and ALX (dw lightning barb) used 2 1-hd weapons - my guess is odyn and t-fury.I know because I was kinda shocked to see it - and kinda happy as well because I had given up on 35+ with DW now I see it's possible.

Is it dead? Don't think so.

Is it the most efficient way to clear GR? Probably not. I find it more survivable (IAS means your charge animation is REALLY fast, i.e., you don't get stuck in bad situations), you can put 10% CDR on mainhand and it's not a big loss (as opposed to 10% dmg on a 2Hd) meaning ~50% CDR w/o gogok. That is really good uptime on WOTB / IP / COTA.
I have tested to the DW speck and what i came up with is the lower DPS on them but on the other hand if u stack a decent LOH it my worth it if u have problems with survivability.
Im confused why people care if they are DW or 2H for raekors. You're still using the build blizzard more or less forced, whats it matter how many weapons you are holding? I tried the lightning DW raekors simply because I only had that at the time, and its still same old !@#$, charge charge charge, just a gimper version.
Does it even matter if one barb out of the top 20 is using dual wield?

He could have 8 conduit pylons and ridiculous density for all we know. (not saying he did, but you have to look at the big picture, not one player out of how many?)

I can get myself a GR37 key from trials pretty reliably, yet i havent been able to solo GR35 yet.

However, i bet if i was willing to bang my head against GR37 repeatedly, eventually i'd get that uber dense rift full of zombies with a conduit pylon near the rift guardian. does that mean whatever build i happen to be running is viable?
I can kill ghom in under 30 seconds with Istvan set. GG

Yup just tested it and I waited till istvan stacks were up popped WoTB and Ghom died when WoTB ended. So my guess it was actually 25 seconds
Thanks for testing juggernaut. My well rolled Schaefer's minus socket felt just as strong as my previous dual wield lightning WW setup using ToF/SoH. I'm hoping I'll notice a nice improvement once I find a gift to use on the hammer.
09/14/2014 06:38 PMPosted by Juggernaut
09/14/2014 05:56 PMPosted by RagingKoala
So you tested a lightning ww build with one gem and determined every other element/gem combo to be substandard?


I'm pretty sure you missed the entire point of the post. This has nothing to do with elements and gems, its a weapon test for Lightning WW. Did you even read any of it or just jump right in blindly screaming wild accusations?

Also, mirinae+wotb+furnace was the fastest kill at 20s. So no, I didn't run just one set of tests, but my gem testing didn't have much to do with 2h vs 1h and was too short to compare WEAPONS for the ONE BUILD I was trying to test for.

I'm kind of confused, are you guys serious or just trolling?


OP: "Dual wielding is dead".

ONLY TRIED LIGHTNING

LOL FAIL

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