2.1.1 Realm of Trial Changes Concerns

General Discussion
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With the addition of the new patch, Realm of Trials "more accurately assess an appropriate level of Greater Rift." I agree with blizzard developers that it in fact does achieve this goal however leader boards have already been taken advantage of through clever use of game mechanics that were existent before the patch. People at the top of the current leader boards for greater rifts farmed higher level keys in groups (much higher than achievable for solo play) and then subsequently used these keys to find favorable rifts. They would use one key at a time and open a grift, and then assess whether it would be clearable (presence of unfavorable mobs such as anarachs, corrupted angels and low mob density/linear map grifts would be unfavorable) and if they were not, restart the game and open a new grift and repeat the process until a favorable rift was found. With this change, the leader boards are essentially frozen in place because the majority of rifts past level 40 are not clear able due to mostly low density and linearity of map layouts.

People that were able to find favorable rifts at a high greater rift level before patch and were able to clear it, have their rank essentially frozen due to the low probability of someone clearing subsequent rift levels starting from lets say 40 is very low. Getting a favorable rift and clearing it on levels 40, 41, 42 onwards to the desired greater rift level to challenge a rank is next to impossible due to the RNG of mob type/density and map layout. If you do manage to get to the desired level, if you make even a single mistake, you end up losing enough time to where you fail anyways, causing you to repeat the entire process. edit: This doesn't even include maps that had pylons, specifically conduit, that could help shave entire minutes off of a clear time. This "conduit pylon" problem is an entirely different issue, so I won't be expanding upon it in this post.

Before the patch, the top ranking players could spend the time of a rift clear farming Realm of Trial for their desired level keystones (atleast 3-4 keys in that time period). Afterwards, could spam that level multiple times and find a beatable rift within the allotted time. The only way this change should stay in the game is if leaderboards are reset, and people are forced to play the game as intended within the new trial system. As it stands, most of the higher end ranks will be essentially frozen as it will be very difficult to obtain keystones for the desired level greater rift and be very frustrating for the player base as whole.

As a final note, just wondering what the opinion of the blues are regarding this. A lot of the other patch notes were touched upon by blues, but the most important change from a competition standpoint has not be addressed. Its a good thing that you guys elaborated on bug fixes to shield bash (an ability that most high end crusaders never use) and on key drop changes for the less seasoned player. I'm not asking for immediate changes or anything, but this issue needs to be addressed asap because as it stands, this season is practically over for those of us trying to compete on the leaderboards.
Well put.

Now make a TLDR version for the ADD crowd.
09/24/2014 08:49 AMPosted by Easterbunny
Well put.

Now make a TLDR version for the ADD crowd.


*angry joe voice* They've done fu**** it up (bit altered)

*short reason*

Ontopic abit more: yeah idd i dislike this change very greatly aswell.
Bump

TLDR: Due to the RNG component of successfully clearing subsequent rifts after 40 to get to the desired level, it is not possible to challenge those at the top of leader boards. Those who had access to abundant higher level grift keys pre-patch were able to find favorable rifts and get times that are no longer beatable on the ladders.
Well put.

I really hope the blues read this post, as someone actually took the time to write in a constructive manner. It´s been long enough for you guys to stop dodging this, and give us a straight answer.

I´d like to raise yet another problem though.
Lag

The new trials require more damage than before, and as everyone knows the most damaging DH specs atm is at the 4.15 BP. Now you guys designed the breakpoints but apparently never tested them properly. I can tell you this, in 4 mans, just 1 DH running 4.15 regardless if it is fire, cold or lightning, the game will stall making impossible for anyone to play as the whole game just freezes and only gives you glimpses of what is actually happening. You really need to figure out what is going on with this. Add in a Helltrapper and you won´t see the game move beyond wave 50.
This is also a major problem in higher grifts btw.
09/25/2014 07:53 AMPosted by Kongo
This is also a major problem in higher grifts btw.


never happened to me.
09/25/2014 07:57 AMPosted by Frozenkex
09/25/2014 07:53 AMPosted by Kongo
This is also a major problem in higher grifts btw.


never happened to me.


Well apparently you haven't done a lot of 47+ grifts in groups, while running 4.15 then.
The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren’t achieving this, so we’ve been working for some time to adjust them internally.

The adjustments to the Realm of Trials in Patch 2.1.1 had a few goals. First, we wanted to more consistently test your survivability. High damaging creatures weren't always spawning in each pack, which means your Toughness wasn't always being properly evaluated. Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters. And third, we wanted to mirror the monster variety you'd experience in a Greater Rift as best as possible. While the experience won't be identical, it should be reasonably close.

The changes to address these issues are as follows:
  • We've adjusted how monsters will spawn during a trial. As part of this adjustment, we recategorized monsters into different “pools.” In the case of the Realm of Trials, a “pool” is a set of potential monster spawns that all have a specific theme. Different pools now include low hit point creatures that die quickly, slightly meatier “mid-ranged” enemies, tanky damage-soakers, and more consistent damage-dealers.)
  • With this, we ensured that least one monster type from each “pool” spawns dependably.
  • Monsters that run or kite frequently were removed from the spawn pools to improve the experience for melee players. To a lesser extent, this also lowers the need for players to have a “vortex” ability.

Finally, we realized that the reduction in keystone tier for multiplayer groups was too harsh. It’s intended that you receive a keystone lower than your theoretical maximum. The increased reduction for player groups helps counterbalance the higher capabilities of a group, especially when considering class diversity and buff sharing. We overshot that counterbalance initially, but this will be adjusted with an upcoming hotfix.

[UPCOMING HOTFIXES]

Greater Rifts
  • The Greater Rift keystone reward from completing the Realm of Trials in multiplayer games will be increased
    • 2 Player groups will receive a key equal to their last wave completed minus four
      • Ex. If you completed wave 20, your group will receive a level 16 keystone
    • 3 Player groups will receive a key equal to their last wave completed minus five
      • Ex. If you completed wave 20, your group will receive a level 15 keystone
    • 4 Player groups will receive a key equal to their last wave completed minus six
      • Ex. If you completed wave 20, your group will receive a level 14 keystone
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've adjusted how monsters will spawn during a trial. As part of this adjustment, we recategorized monsters into different “pools.” In the case of the Realm of Trials, a “pool” is a set of potential monster spawns that all have a specific theme. Different pools now include low hit point creatures that die quickly, slightly meatier “mid-ranged” enemies, tanky damage-soakers, and more consistent damage-dealers.)
With this, we ensured that least one monster type from each “pool” spawns dependably.

You guys need to take this approach with Greater Rift tuning as well to help counterbalance them.
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
The adjustments to the Realm of Trials in Patch 2.1.1 had a few goals. First, we wanted to more consistently test your survivability. High damaging creatures weren't always spawning in each pack, which means your Toughness wasn't always being properly evaluated. Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters. And third, we wanted to mirror the monster variety you'd experience in a Greater Rift as best as possible. While the experience won't be identical, it should be reasonably close.

The changes to address these issues are as follows:
  • We've adjusted how monsters will spawn during a trial. As part of this adjustment, we recategorized monsters into different “pools.” In the case of the Realm of Trials, a “pool” is a set of potential monster spawns that all have a specific theme. Different pools now include low hit point creatures that die quickly, slightly meatier “mid-ranged” enemies, tanky damage-soakers, and more consistent damage-dealers.)
  • With this, we ensured that least one monster type from each “pool” spawns dependably.
  • Monsters that run or kite frequently were removed from the spawn pools to improve the experience for melee players. To a lesser extent, this also lowers the need for players to have a “vortex” ability.

Finally, we realized that the reduction in keystone tier for multiplayer groups was too harsh. As mentioned above, it’s intended that you receive a keystone lower than your theoretical maximum. The increased reduction for player groups helps counterbalance the higher capabilities of a group, especially when considering class diversity and buff sharing. We overshot that counterbalance initially, but this will be adjusted with [url="http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14579008081?page=1#2"]an upcoming hotfix[/url].


you ruined monks again
09/25/2014 03:26 PMPosted by Drothvader
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've adjusted how monsters will spawn during a trial. As part of this adjustment, we recategorized monsters into different “pools.” In the case of the Realm of Trials, a “pool” is a set of potential monster spawns that all have a specific theme. Different pools now include low hit point creatures that die quickly, slightly meatier “mid-ranged” enemies, tanky damage-soakers, and more consistent damage-dealers.)
With this, we ensured that least one monster type from each “pool” spawns dependably.

You guys need to take this approach with Greater Rift tuning as well to help counterbalance them.


Agreed. Too many wasted rift floors filled with imps and shadow crap.
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters.


You did the exact opposite, you made it more punishing for melee classes. Do the people at blizzard even play the game they're developing?
09/25/2014 03:30 PMPosted by Unicorn
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters.


You did the exact opposite, you made it more punishing for melee classes. Do the people at blizzard even play the game they're developing?


+1

seriously test your patch before you release them...
no they dont m8 and tbh i dont even think they care about it
@Nevalistis

@ all other blues

@ dev team

Nobody likes trials.

There are currently 2 highly rated topics with over 250 responds each and several other smaller topics stating exactly that.

Trials are pointless, remove them.

Here are the 2 topics I'm referring to:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14525472757?page=10#189

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14059367055?page=14#266
09/25/2014 03:30 PMPosted by Unicorn
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters.


You did the exact opposite, you made it more punishing for melee classes. Do the people at blizzard even play the game they're developing?


Yes.

They play Demon Hunters and Wizards.
09/25/2014 03:30 PMPosted by Unicorn
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
Second, we wanted the Trials to feel less punishing for melee characters.


You did the exact opposite, you made it more punishing for melee classes. Do the people at blizzard even play the game they're developing?
Finally, we realized that the reduction in keystone tier for multiplayer groups was too harsh. As mentioned above, it’s intended that you receive a keystone lower than your theoretical maximum. The increased reduction for player groups helps counterbalance the higher capabilities of a group, especially when considering class diversity and buff sharing. We overshot that counterbalance initially, but this will be adjusted with an upcoming hotfix.


There has to be NO REDUCTION! Groups prior 2.1.1 took adventage of that and if you reduce it we will be left will lower lvl gems!

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