2.1.1 Realm of Trial Changes Concerns

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As someone with a melee spec the new changes are terrible ( chain stuns for 2s at a time).

Please stop trying to fix this train wreck. Remove the need to do trials period (let us select the level 1 to our highest) past the first time. We do not need hand holding, we know what we can do.
09/26/2014 12:05 AMPosted by Bodoka
Care to tell us how you gonna stop restarting/quiting/leaving game for good rift fishing without trials?

Only the t6 rift + trial time sink stops average people to reset GRifts constantly.
It does not stop 10 hours/day played players though to cherry pick good maps/mobs as they do t6 in 2-3mins.

I don't want to start at lvl I passed. I want to start at level I did not pass yet. Makes no sense start at lvl I already passed, so I like that I can get trial key up to gr42.


How about filtering the possible monster spawns to have only the toughest monsters appear in them? After all, GRs are supposed to be all about the challenge, right? What good are leaderboards when you know almost everyone at a "high level" just fishes for rifts full of dumb zombies.

As for maps, they should be static maps. You should be struggling against powerful monsters, not against dead ends and endless backtracking. It sucks to get crap maps like the caverns of Aranae or cave levels full of loops and dead ends, finding the path you took led in the exact opposite direction you need to be heading to. I'd go for something consistent and predictable, like the tower of the damned levels, Stonefort or Rakkis Crossing, which happen to be entirely predictable, allowing the player to focus on efficiency instead of being inevitably gimped by !@#$ty RNG.

09/26/2014 07:10 AMPosted by FallenSouls
I have a question, why do people want to start at the very top possible with as little work as possible? Im all for making changes that makes sense, but taking away content just so you can get what you want with very little work is not the point of greater rifts and detrimental to the progress of this game and its content. If you want GR50, do the work, pass the trial test and be rewarded.


Trials aren't "content", and they don't fulfill their intended purpose properly. They're supposed to evaluate your performance and set you in a somewhat fair level. Demonstrably, they do not. What exactly is "work" in repeating the same pattern over and over and over and over and over and over again just to get keys that usually are under your actual potential? It's a poorly designed mechanic that needs to be removed. Besides, nobody asked to be allowed at the top instantly. In fact, people just ask for an option similar to the torment slider, where you can actually evaluate your performance on your own, just like in T1-T6. If you get your !@# kicked, you'll go lower. If you're steamrolling, you'll move higher. Simple. Do you honestly believe any random guy will simply get to GR50 "with very little work"?
Remove Trials and fix Elite Affixes! what the point of different affixes anyway if every ability oneshots you anyway!
Trials is fine for those who want a dps/toughness check and figure out what level grift would be good for them.

But for those who already know and are pushing the limits (the ultimate point of Grifting), its is a huge hassle and hindrance to have to do trials every time. It's like having to watch a tutorial every time you start up a game you've played for years. Why not give us the option to select any level we have previously completed?

This means trials would be required the first time, for anyone who has never done a Grift, and then optional for anyone after who know their level.
1. Remove the Trials.
2. Allow us to select the last Grift level we were able to finish on time.
There has to be "something" that monitors your ability though so...
3. If you do not finish in time, your max level is reduced by one. I know this won't work though because people will just close the game if they won't finish in time to prevent losing a level :/
09/25/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren't achieving this, so we've been working for some time to adjust them internally.

...... and to also test ur patience.....
why not just separate the team obtained stones from solo earned stones?
pls do not worsen the trials as i fear each patch is getting from bad to worse :)
What would be the harm in removing the trials completely? Well one thing is they would have to figure out how you would get into the greater rift somehow. That means rift guardians wouldn't drop trials anymore and then that could be an issue. How about this, find some other way to upgrade legendary gems take out that dam npc at the end of a greater rift.

I think honestly, this could have been avoided by making the rift guardian drop something for access to a greater rift based on the torment that you were on. Maybe like the greater rift would continue on forever without using any freaking keystone at all. So the more greater rifts you did the more mobs you would have to fight maybe even fight 2 greater rift guardians. Having some kind of strategy or way to move faster and think how you would kill certain mobs. Still have it timed and have technically the same idea with the skulls picking them up on elites for more time. Then at the end depending on how far you got or how many ranks of greater rift trials you did that was your rank. Say for instance you completed greater rift rank 10 in torment 6 under 5 hours. We will say this have it though where you could stop at any time by talking to a npc at a certain checkpoint like say halfway or a quarter of the way through the greater rift to clock out your time so it would only give you time for the ranks that you completed. This way there would be no difficulty you would have to worry about and just make it about timing. And yes have the rewards a hell of a lot better then how they are now for greater rift guardians. So you get through 1st rank you get a reward then you get through the 2nd the drops are better the 3rd they get better and so on.

Why I say that is the rank system does not make any sense to me. Having two separate difficulties when you are already in another difficulty is confusing. It's like oh I will do a t6 rift, ok I kill a rift guardian, then it drops a trial. Now I have to do a trial that has some weird already set difficulty to get another ranked keystone for the highest or lowest difficulty ever.
"completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability."

ARGGGGGGGG!!! no, No NO. (Bangs head on keyboard)

If we want to do a lower GR, we will back off when we get to where we want! I do this all the time when leveling gems. Why do a 30-something GR when I need to move along say, a level 3 gem?

When I go all out, as hard as I can (which I do a lot) I want to get a key EXACTLY at my maximum capability.

Sheeesh!
09/26/2014 11:08 AMPosted by MIGHTY
This design concept is so terrible it makes me laugh. If blizzard ever got rid of there forums, I am not sure it would matter or make a difference to be honest. They ask us for (feedback) on something, but do nothing to actually address the main issue.


Nav and others learn this marketing bs 5 years on uni. Always reply thank you for feedback keep it coming.
Then do what ever you want. Most of ppl are already fooled. Removing trials doesnt solve problem that some of players has 50+ gems that are imposible to obtain for others. Thats not fair competition introduced with leaderbords that are liked by so many. Even if you buy special edition of ROS you never get god like item only visials. With recent patch trial nerf you gave god like gems to certain group of players not possible to get to others. And I dont care they spend time on it this is irrelevant. I know I dont want it for free. I want to work towards it too.

I was playing crusader and switched for dh as long as it outpefrorms others not only in trails and can help my other calsses the most. It takes months to get to place where you want to be and bam - all efffort to garbage we did nerf thing you wish too adventage of. Nerfing should be forbidden if we have leaderbords.
09/25/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
I've made some adjustments to the original post that lend additional context. Hopefully that makes some of these changes a little clearer:

The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren't achieving this, so we've been working for some time to adjust them internally.


That said, I appreciate the constructive feedback that's been presented so far. Thanks so much, we'll be passing it on. :)


What an asinine goal. The purpose of GRifts is to progress and push the limit of a build. Why should a player always start a couple of tier beneath their progression tier; does it only serve to waste their time? Does a player need an additional time sink when the content scales infinitely?

It is baffling that this is what the D3 dev team considers content.
Yo Nev, I have a few suggestions for fixing many of the ongoing issues and complaints with trials. This is gonna blow your mind.

1. Rename "Keystone of Trials" to "Greater Rift Keystone." Allow to stack to like 9,999 so it never takes more than one character's inventory slot. Aquisition remains the same.
  • Be sure to remove the star and beam as previously promised, as this causes players to pee their pants without good reason.

2. When a trial key is inserted into the obelisk, the UI displays a list of unlocked levels.
  • Levels are unlocked per character and by group size.
  • On the first time, only trials is available.
  • Trials remains playable (optionally) at any time as a dps/toughness check.

3. Defeating a GR in time unlocks that level for that character and group size, and does not consume the Greater Rift Keystone. Losing a GR consumes the keystone.

4. Urshi, subsequently, is only for gem upgrades. She is also moved slightly as to not be standing right in the middle of my loots!

5. Unlocking each Grift level awards something cool.
  • Common levels award something like a horadric cache.
  • Milestone levels (10, 20, 30, etc.) award more flavorful rewards - surprise us!
  • Common level rewards get slightly cooler after each milestone.
  • Level 35 awards a Legendary Greater Rift Key, which cannot be consumed! (For quality of life, Greater Rift Keystones will no longer drop if the character has one of these in their inventory.)

Pros:
  • Keeps trials while not requiring veteran players to use it pointlessly repeatedly.
  • Removes Grift key clutter in inventories.
  • Allows veteran players to not have to run regular rifts in order to play Grifts.
  • Provides further incentive for all players to play Greater Rifts and push their limits.
  • Addresses many common complaints at once and gives the impression D3 devs are receptive and really do care.

  • Cons:
    • The artist who made all those numbered keystone keys is gonna be pissed.
    • Urshi might feel like she has less purpose in life.
    • The programmer who made trials might be a little bit pissed too.
    09/26/2014 12:26 PMPosted by Caracal
    "completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability."

    ARGGGGGGGG!!! no, No NO. (Bangs head on keyboard)

    If we want to do a lower GR, we will back off when we get to where we want! I do this all the time when leveling gems. Why do a 30-something GR when I need to move along say, a level 3 gem?

    When I go all out, as hard as I can (which I do a lot) I want to get a key EXACTLY at my maximum capability.

    Sheeesh!


    Don't think I could have said it better myself. I don't want to start a few levels below my capabilities. That means I have to run 2 to 4 Grifts to get to where I should/want to be. That is 30 minutes to an hour running Grifts just to get to where I should/want to be! Which is complete and utter BS!
    09/25/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
    I've made some adjustments to the original post that lend additional context. Hopefully that makes some of these changes a little clearer:

    The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren't achieving this, so we've been working for some time to adjust them internally.


    That said, I appreciate the constructive feedback that's been presented so far. Thanks so much, we'll be passing it on. :)


    I think the penalty on levels for doing trials in groups is unwarranted. A solo player can't get as far as a properly made group in greater rifts, it makes sense that they also would be able to get further in trials.
    09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
    The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren’t achieving this, so we’ve been working for some time to adjust them internally.


    Your dev team is so freaking clueless it is laughable. It took you THIS LONG to get to tthe point you are at? People on the beta forums told you time and time again this idea is a flop. You went with it anyways. Now you fubar it even more. NO ONE LIKES TRIALS. The person who thought this was a good game decision should never touch another game as long as he lives. This isn't fun, trials suck balls. Let me complete my GRIFTS in the way I WANT TO COMPLETE THEM. If I want to go to level 50.. and fail.. then let me. It isn't up to you, it is up to me.. the gamer.

    LET ME PLAY THE FREAKING GAME THE WAY I WANT... NOT THE WAY YOU THINK I SHOULD.

    This is the problem with all of your games lately. Force feeding content which YOU think is good and should be played YOU WAY. It is like a fat spoiled kid who will take his toys and go home when people dont want to play his way.
    09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
    The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren’t achieving this, so we’ve been working for some time to adjust them internally.

    [/quote]

    It is for this reason that I have over 300 trial keystones! I do not have a ton of time to play D3, so when Grifts take 10-15 minutes each, having to fight through 4-5 grifts just to get to where I want is pointless and it waists my limited gaming time.

    At this point T6 rifts are more rewarding, better balanced, completed in 5 minutes and not nearly as frustrating, so that is what I will be doing.
    09/26/2014 01:49 PMPosted by Destruction
    Let me complete my GRIFTS in the way I WANT TO COMPLETE THEM. If I want to go to level 50.. and fail.. then let me. It isn't up to you, it is up to me.. the gamer.

    LET ME FREAKING GAME THE WAY I WANT... NOT THE WAY YOU THINK I SHOULD.

    +1
    09/26/2014 02:06 PMPosted by DHAVOS
    09/26/2014 01:49 PMPosted by Destruction
    Let me complete my GRIFTS in the way I WANT TO COMPLETE THEM. If I want to go to level 50.. and fail.. then let me. It isn't up to you, it is up to me.. the gamer.

    LET ME FREAKING GAME THE WAY I WANT... NOT THE WAY YOU THINK I SHOULD.

    +1


    So why do you buy games that other people make? If you want a game made your way for you, then go make one.
    09/26/2014 01:21 PMPosted by Smog
    Yo Nev, I have a few suggestions for fixing many of the ongoing issues and complaints with trials. This is gonna blow your mind.1. Rename "Keystone of Trials" to "Greater Rift Keystone." Allow to stack to like 9,999 so it never takes more than one character's inventory slot. Aquisition remains the same.Be sure to remove the star and beam as previously promised, as this causes players to pee their pants without good reason.2. When a trial key is inserted into the obelisk, the UI displays a list of unlocked levels.Levels are unlocked per character and by group size.On the first time, only trials is available.Trials remains playable (optionally) at any time as a dps/toughness check.3. Defeating a GR in time unlocks that level for that character and group size, and does not consume the Greater Rift Keystone. Losing a GR consumes the keystone.4. Urshi, subsequently, is only for gem upgrades. She is also moved slightly as to not be standing right in the middle of my loots!5. Unlocking each Grift level awards something cool.Common levels award something like a horadric cache.Milestone levels (10, 20, 30, etc.) award more flavorful rewards - surprise us!Common level rewards get slightly cooler after each milestone.Level 35 awards a Legendary Greater Rift Key, which cannot be consumed! (For quality of life, Greater Rift Keystones will no longer drop if the character has one of these in their inventory.)Pros:Keeps trials while not requiring veteran players to use it pointlessly repeatedly.Removes Grift key clutter in inventories.Allows veteran players to not have to run regular rifts in order to play Grifts.Provides further incentive for all players to play Greater Rifts and push their limits.Addresses many common complaints at once and gives the impression D3 devs are receptive and really do care.Cons:The artist who made all those numbered keystone keys is gonna be pissed.Urshi might feel like she has less purpose in life.The programmer who made trials might be a little bit pissed too.


    Great post. Epic Idea. The milestone would be amazing. If all of the Diablo 3 players put their minds together, helped the developers with good ideas like this, would the game be where it is at now, if they had applied those ideas and listened to the community?

    How about this Blizzard,

    09/26/2014 02:09 PMPosted by FallenSouls
    So why do you buy games that other people make? If you want a game made your way for you, then go make one.


    Wanting a game made how you would like it, would be possible in a mmo atmosphere. Blizzard could do this. How you say? They already did some of this by allowing polls in the community forums. More interaction with the community would be cool though.

    By the way would I really want 4 to 6 rare items at greater rift 30+?
    <span class="truncated">...</span>
    +1


    So why do you buy games that other people make? If you want a game made your way for you, then go make one.


    I have the technical expertise, but what I lack is time. Making games is not my job, writing software for enterprise solutions is. I know, as an enterprise level developer, that you need to listen to your customers or you will run out of business. Activision / Blizzard is floating on nostalgia atm; with games like star craft revamped, diablo revamped and grandpa WoW.

    Their "new stuff" likeHearthstone is magic online revamped and Heroes of the Storm is LoL Revamped. They have nothing original coming out and haven't had anything original in almost a decade. They have literally ran out of creativity.

    Blizzard is like the Zynga of the PC Gaming world.
    Trials are utterly pointless.

    What it should be:

    First time players = get a GR Key level 1., work their way up.

    there are no more key levels. each and every grift you enter will be at the level that you just failed.

    in a group situation, The Grift level you enter is the lowest of what all players in game have failed

    i mean you already have the career window, you know what each player is capable of. there is no need to trial over and over.

    if you're gonna trial over and over, then please, since trials take like half the time of a t6 rift these days . I would appreciate several loot drops, legendary drops and bloodshards

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