2.1.1 Realm of Trial Changes Concerns

General Discussion
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09/25/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
I've made some adjustments to the original post that lend additional context. Hopefully that makes some of these changes a little clearer:

The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren't achieving this, so we've been working for some time to adjust them internally.


That said, I appreciate the constructive feedback that's been presented so far. Thanks so much, we'll be passing it on. :)


In our case, the trial realm is HARDER than the accompanying greater rifts. Right now, we're getting keystones like 36, 37 (4 player group), and even with the new hotfix that would be something like 40, 41 keystones if I'm not mistaken.

However, in terms of actual greater rifts, anything below 44 is absolutely boring for us.

We feel that greater rifts are less challenging than their accompanying trial waves, at least if you scale it down this harshly - simply because of the ridiculous HP pools of some of these mobs.

We're even dropping all defensive passives and going for full-on damage output for these trials, which does not mirror what we do in greater rifts at all.

Please, please reconsider the entire trial rift system and let us instead re-use failed keystones or choose which greater rift we want to enter.
Please remove trials. Thank you.
I need to RNG to where I was RNG'ed before and RNG from there onwards. RNG has been brought to a whole new level so that we now have to RNG the very game we open so that we are given an RNG chance to maybe progress. Sure RNG can be evened out by multiple rifts farming and time itself, but do you know how freaking long is it to complete a GR40+ rift??? Do you know there are people who have to work??
I'd also like to see the complete end of trials. They aren't fun, and they are incredibly poor at judging what GR you can handle. I got keys well below what I could handle before, now it's a complete joke. I run through and complete with 8 minutes to spare, and that just gets me a few levels increase. It's maddening.
Hey Blizz,
As far as seasons go, the trials need to be reverted to pre 2.1.1. Once the season is over implement any changes you want. Most of the real outrage came from changing things mid season. In what world do you live in where the rules to a competition change mid game?
THE BEST THING YOU COULD POSSIBLY DO IS REMOVE THE TRIALS.
whatever floats your boat, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I stated mine and got all these wannabe diablo "pros" or whatever upset and instantly dissecting my profile, my "expertise" and whatever else the heck yall think makes gods of boys here. Is my opinion as a customer of this game not valid? please just because i dont spend 20 hours a day at this dont mean im nto entitled to my feedback. Dont be so mad. Lol over what man?! Its just a game, have some fun.

Once again blizzard thank you for not removing content, but instead trying your best to improve upon it. My one grip if any really is make some loot and or gold drop at least. to add to that, maybe get the waves on a equal level to grift keys for those great folks i discussed this with tonight. Seems to be the biggest issue.
I think that it is a good change.
We'll see less people reaching very high level greater rift by farming high level keys and trying again and again this level untill they have an easy one with act 1 mobs and a good density.
The level the players will reach will now be deserved.
Thank you Blizzard.
Thank you for your explanation, but I disagree with the philosophy behind Trials. You mention that trials is used to test our capabilities, but the Greater Rift leaderboard shows that an easy rift puts you at the top of the leaderboard. It doesn't matter how well you do in the Trial, it's about fishing the easy rift. As of now Trials are useless and unfun. You saw that you guys wanted a "safe zone" below our maximum capabilities, but honestly who wants to get a key lower than their capability? Do you guys honestly think that we want to do rift 39, 40, and then try to beat 41? People want to tackle the highest Greater Rift possible. Please listen to the community and remove Trials at the very least.
09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling.


Please explain how a bunch of white mobs (big, small, pooled or not, whatever) accurately assess your potential to deal with the following:
- Overtuned elite unavoidable damage mechanics.
- Map layouts full of dead ends and overall backtracking, resulting in marathonic runs without actually killing stuff. (Trials are a small, static arena)
- Capricious and inconsistent monster density/classing. (Trials have consistent and fully predictable waves)

Basically, trials completely fail at the "intended" function they were created for.

09/25/2014 03:19 PMPosted by Nevalistis
The changes to address these issues are as follows:
We've adjusted how monsters will spawn during a trial. As part of this adjustment, we recategorized monsters into different “pools.” In the case of the Realm of Trials, a “pool” is a set of potential monster spawns that all have a specific theme. Different pools now include low hit point creatures that die quickly, slightly meatier “mid-ranged” enemies, tanky damage-soakers, and more consistent damage-dealers.)
With this, we ensured that least one monster type from each “pool” spawns dependably.
Monsters that run or kite frequently were removed from the spawn pools to improve the experience for melee players. To a lesser extent, this also lowers the need for players to have a “vortex” ability.

I hope you're aware your "fix" made it even more difficult for melee folks to get high-level keystones. Also, fleeing monsters appear in GRs. Why would you artificially skew the test to something you're most certainly going to be facing in the actual rift? It simply doesn't make any sense. This just piles onto the aforementioned factors for inaccuracy in the actual assessment of the players potential by this so-called test.

How about simply allowing the player to select his own challenge. If you can make it, great! If you can't, you'll just use the next keystone at a more appropriate level. You already did it for Torment levels, no? If I wanna push myself at higher torments, I simply move that slider up. If I get my !@# handed to me or happen to be unacceptably inefficient, I just go back to a more appropriate level with my next keystone. Testing the waters, so to speak. Why is it that suddenly you feel the need to put the player through this ridiculously pointless chore just to pretend you added new content? You guys (the designers, not you, the CMs) really have to drop this nonsensical hand-holding attitude assuming people aren't even able to evaluate their own performance based on empirical data. Please, for the love of Diablo, stop insulting our intelligence with nonsense like this. Worst is, it's not even working, at all...

Finally, we realized that the reduction in keystone tier for multiplayer groups was too harsh. It’s intended that you receive a keystone lower than your theoretical maximum. The increased reduction for player groups helps counterbalance the higher capabilities of a group, especially when considering class diversity and buff sharing. We overshot that counterbalance initially, but this will be adjusted with an upcoming hotfix.

How about giving group keystones for groups, and solo keystones for solo players? That way, each ladder will be clearly identifiable. Part of the perceived unfairness going on in solo leaderboards has to do with the humongous advantage people playing in groups have just based on gem upgrades potential alone. There's no way an exclusively solo player can compete with that. Quite an oversight, frankly.
09/25/2014 08:48 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Part of the perceived unfairness going on in solo leaderboards has to do with the humongous advantage people playing in groups have just based on gem upgrades potential alone. There's no way an exclusively solo player can compete with that. Quite an oversight, frankly.

Diablo 3 is not a single player game.
09/25/2014 08:51 PMPosted by myztikrice
09/25/2014 08:48 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Part of the perceived unfairness going on in solo leaderboards has to do with the humongous advantage people playing in groups have just based on gem upgrades potential alone. There's no way an exclusively solo player can compete with that. Quite an oversight, frankly.

Diablo 3 is not a single player game.


yea the solo leaderboards dont exist
For me anyway, a person who has completed Grift 21 tops, the patched trial system works better than before. Right now it puts me 2-3 levels below my max, sometimes in the past it would be as much as 6-8 levels lower and I'd be done in less than 10 minutes.

I just saw someone saying D3 isn't a single player game. That's hilarious. That's how I've played since the start.
Trials are 1) not rewarding due to absolutely zero loot and 2) don't fulfill its purpose of properly assessing a character's actual efficiency. These reasons alone are enough to support the removal of the trial system altogether.

You may try your best to justify the existence of trials but it's blatantly obvious to the community that it's yet another gatekeeper, along with the ridiculous amount of RNG in-built game mechanics, to slow players' progression because we're blowing through the content faster than you think we should.

If you still have even a single shred of integrity as game designers dedicated in providing the best enjoyable gameplay experience to your customers, remove the trials.
09/25/2014 08:47 PMPosted by MONS
I think that it is a good change.
We'll see less people reaching very high level greater rift by farming high level keys and trying again and again this level untill they have an easy one with act 1 mobs and a good density.
The level the players will reach will now be deserved.
Thank you Blizzard.


Who are you to say who is deserving and who isn't? The same RNG in the map still applies, whether you get a map with nice density, Act 5 mobs or elites with frozen, jail and thunderstorm in the same pack. I can roll a horrid map that is slightly lower level than the one I cleared before and still not be able to clear it. I can get Skeleton King as the final boss or I can get Stone Singer. Please post on your main account when deciding who is deserving, stop hiding.
09/25/2014 06:45 PMPosted by Nevalistis
I've made some adjustments to the original post that lend additional context. Hopefully that makes some of these changes a little clearer:

The Realm of Trials is designed to test your limits and, as accurately as possible, assess what level of Greater Rift you should be tackling. However, we also want there to be a small “safe zone” before reaching this limit, so completing the Realm of Trials should ideally land you a couple of tiers below your maximum capability. The Trials, up to this point, weren't achieving this, so we've been working for some time to adjust them internally.


That said, I appreciate the constructive feedback that's been presented so far. Thanks so much, we'll be passing it on. :)


This would be fine if this were the end of a season. If no other message is relayed on to the development team, they need to be made to realize they're killing the competitive scene for the rest of the season. When players are intentionally forced to get keys that are "a couple of tiers below your maximum" they then must go through 3-4 more rifts worth of what is frankly poorly balanced RNG in order to even contend with the top of the leaderboards.
Please remove the trials. With over 200+ keystones, it is really a pain to keep repeating trials with no reward. An extra hurdle with no benefits.

Sentiments shared by gamers for gamers.

Please remove the trials.

Thanks.
09/25/2014 08:53 PMPosted by D2ModPlayer
I just saw someone saying D3 isn't a single player game. That's hilarious. That's how I've played since the start.


I wouldn't disagree with you earlier before the recent patch.

But now, its really not a single player game. At least you need to be in party to get keys in order to obtain hellfire ammy now. You can't do it solo anymore. Which is pretty sad.
09/25/2014 09:27 PMPosted by Blakey
09/25/2014 08:53 PMPosted by D2ModPlayer
I just saw someone saying D3 isn't a single player game. That's hilarious. That's how I've played since the start.


I wouldn't disagree with you earlier before the recent patch.

But now, its really not a single player game. At least you need to be in party to get keys in order to obtain hellfire ammy now. You can't do it solo anymore. Which is pretty sad.


what

this is a new low in reading comprehension. you can get the keys solo just fine. they now also drop for every player in the party when the keywarden dies.
09/25/2014 08:51 PMPosted by myztikrice
09/25/2014 08:48 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
Part of the perceived unfairness going on in solo leaderboards has to do with the humongous advantage people playing in groups have just based on gem upgrades potential alone. There's no way an exclusively solo player can compete with that. Quite an oversight, frankly.

Diablo 3 is not a single player game.


Show me one content/gamemode where more than 1 player needed lol (coop achis are not content). Its a single player game with optional coop.
People only party for higher farming (xp,lvl,item) efficiency.
09/25/2014 09:29 PMPosted by Glorfindel
09/25/2014 09:27 PMPosted by Blakey
...

I wouldn't disagree with you earlier before the recent patch.

But now, its really not a single player game. At least you need to be in party to get keys in order to obtain hellfire ammy now. You can't do it solo anymore. Which is pretty sad.


what

this is a new low in reading comprehension. you can get the keys solo just fine. they now also drop for every player in the party when the keywarden dies.


I haven't even tried hellfire stuff yet since I'm season and really still trying to upgrade my gems. I'm sure I'll get to it at some point. I farmed my first hellfire ring before ROS solo! Took quite awhile, LOL, that because I didn't use the AH either...

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