Blizzard Devs, did you make to GR100...

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10/06/2014 03:37 PMPosted by Grimiku
There is some confusion that comes up from time to time about the role that Greater Rifts are intended to play, and I’d like to take a moment to help try and clear that up.

For the most part, Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick (or meter stick, if we’re waxing Metric) by which players can measure the power growth of their hero, as opposed to something that is meant to be completed in its entirety. Part of the confusion about the intended role of Greater Rifts might come from the fact that, during the public test phase of patch 2.1.0, there was a temporary cap in place (for testing purposes), and some players were able to reach that limit while the PTR was running. However, we never intended to allow players to reach the maximum level of what Greater Rifts offer once the system went live. In fact, for all intents and purposes, the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.


If it was meant to be a measuring stick then it succeeded however it was a pretty bad idea to turn it into something competitive. A limitless type of progression very clearly illustrates the inequality across all class balance and falsely rewards people simply for playing the "right" class or class combination. It promotes the use of unintended gameplay mechanics (which is never punished) and clunky gameplay styles.

A proper competition puts everyone on the same playing field, uses the same rules, and restrictions. There needs to be a clear goal that every class can reach and the playing field needs more consistency aka less variation of difficulty between rift levels. Rifts should generally allow players to produce consistent results on all randomly generated levels.
Hey everyone remember that an 'infinite dungeon' was asked for. No we have it and people are upset they can't reach then end of it. Irony.

I also find the mob density annoying when trying to beat a close rift but at the same time unless they give us a static map with the same monsters there will always be the 'best/lucky map' and you will always be upset when you don't get it. It's a price we have to pay for variety.
10/06/2014 03:51 PMPosted by NeVeRLiFt
There is some confusion that comes up from time to time about the role that Greater Rifts are intended to play, and I’d like to take a moment to help try and clear that up.

For the most part, Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick (or meter stick, if we’re waxing Metric) by which players can measure the power growth of their hero, as opposed to something that is meant to be completed. Part of the confusion about the intended role of Greater Rifts might come from the fact that, during the public test phase of patch 2.1.0, there was a temporary cap in place (for testing purposes), and some players were able to reach that limit while the PTR was running. However, we never intended to allow players to reach the maximum level of what Greater Rifts offer once the system went live. In fact, for all intents and purposes, the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.


How can random maps and poor density of random mobs even begin to be a metric measurement for the classes?
At this point it just seems like the dev's are smoking crack.

edit: At this point if the developers had any sense and knew what they were doing... you would clearly see how poorly balanced the classes are, how bad the legendary and class sets are and that everyone is running the same builds and using the same items.

Is it too much to ask for some variety and diversity?
Do the dev's ever plan on fixing all the bad class sets and junk legendary items?


It's just a video game....
10/07/2014 01:30 PMPosted by MiddleGate
Hey everyone remember that an 'infinite dungeon' was asked for. No we have it and people are upset they can't reach then end of it. Irony.

[/quote]

But it's not infinite

The very steep difficulty curve makes it extremely finite and it's not really a dungeon but a race to a boss.

What players wanted was a dungeon that essentially went on forever that scaled up in difficulty very gradually. Not something that was never more than 5 or 6 levels where you almost immediately hit a wall.
[quote="147273478443"]
Is it too much to ask for some variety and diversity?
Do the dev's ever plan on fixing all the bad class sets and junk legendary items?


Long answer, c'mon this is blizzard you are talking about

short answer lmao no they have no intention everything is working as intended.
10/06/2014 03:37 PMPosted by Grimiku
There is some confusion that comes up from time to time about the role that Greater Rifts are intended to play, and I’d like to take a moment to help try and clear that up.

For the most part, Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick (or meter stick, if we’re waxing Metric) by which players can measure the power growth of their hero, as opposed to something that is meant to be completed in its entirety. Part of the confusion about the intended role of Greater Rifts might come from the fact that, during the public test phase of patch 2.1.0, there was a temporary cap in place (for testing purposes), and some players were able to reach that limit while the PTR was running. However, we never intended to allow players to reach the maximum level of what Greater Rifts offer once the system went live. In fact, for all intents and purposes, the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.


C'mon Grim,

The only thing that is being measured is the amount of RNG taking place.
Do you honestly believe (or think anyone else does) that Ajijijiji completing GR47 as a solo barb is an accurate reflection of power growth?
I enjoyed Grifting, but after hitting 36 solo it became quite clear that it's RNG to the Nth degree...I like being able to produce similar results on a more consistent basis...not praying to RNGesus for a conduit pylon.

RNG is awesome. The problem with the game right now is that it has too much.

Trial Key--RNG--we hate it
Uber keys--RNG--we hate it
Low density GR--RNG--we hate it

FLIPSIDE

T6 uber run--100% Organ--WE LOVE IT
T6 cache run--100% leg--WE LOVE IT

Why is it so difficult to understand?
This game is dying from too much RNG effecting portions of the game it shouldn't.

RNG was absolutely incredible back when crafting our armor could produce BIS pieces. Why you ask? Because the player could farm tons of mats and "gamble" 10k times in a row.
With Kadala, I can gamble for 10 rings and then start all over....thanks for nothing.

I'm pretty much finished Grifting...it isn't fun and failed to deliver its "intended" goal.

Do us all a favor Grim, walk in on the Devs during a meeting and just launch one out a window...while the others are freaking out and crying "Why did you do that?".....tell them it was RNG.
E uf what? eeee WHAT? I can't even....WHAAAAT?

What do you mean " players can measure the power growth of their hero" WHAT?

WHY THE F>>> DID YOU ADD A RANKING SYSTEM TO IT THEN!!!! DUHHH?

again....WHAT!?
Blizzard, please release x patch that will provide y number of hours of enjoyment before I return to rant on your forum.

Of all the self-entitled...

It's not that our community failed to comprehend the purpose of Greater Rifts. It's that, as our enthusiasm slowed, our deliberate helpmehelpmeness grew to the point of pre-Reaper of Souls. I happen to like this game as is, and yes, I am ridiculously "low" in paragon level. But what is more ridiculous? The notion that I can comment with such a "low" score, or the notion that someone who is paragon 1000, with all the time that took, can expect to have even one iota more enthusiasm for something they have clearly bled dry. A player of that level would be silly to whine about the value of a product, having received many months of play out of it.

If you are bored, consider playing something else. If nothing else can hold your attention, consider knitting. Your extreme dedications to criticism and replay-power could surely be put to a better use, like learning to catch fish with your bare hands, or learning to play the harmonica with your tiny, tiny little mouths.

Do us all a favor Grim, walk in on the Devs during a meeting and just launch one out a window...while the others are freaking out and crying "Why did you do that?".....tell them it was RNG.


PRICELESS XD made my day.

even better and imo a bit less radical :

go inside the devs rooms and slap one of em in the face each day. sometimes chose the same dev 2-5 times in a row during a week. tell em it is RNG. tell em its still RNG when they get hit 3 times on a row. do this for one month. after this month the devs will realize how playing d3 FEELS^^.
10/07/2014 05:16 AMPosted by Grumm
If the maps, mob density, mob type, and elite affixes are all random, how can any measurment of your character be accurate?

How can Grifts be used for more than leveling up gems? The leaderboards are meraningless and have no merit in its current state.

Exactly. I said the identical thing in a previous post:

10/06/2014 08:44 PMPosted by CyberGoat
Remove the incentives entirely - except for leaderboard.

Can't. The leaderboard is meaningless unless every Greater Rift run is exactly the same; same layout, same monsters, same density. Then there will be competition. Until then, Greater Rifts are only good for leveling Legendary Gems, and build testing.

Steve Austin

There will never be any real "competition" in this game until Blizzard makes the map layouts of Greater Rifts, and the monster types, population, and density, standardized and constant through every instance of Greater Rift.

A single field of racecar drivers do not all race on different courses for the same checkered flag.

Until then, there will never be any real "competition" in this game, and the "leaderboards" will measure nothing except who the luckiest player is; the one who found the right gear, got a favorable map with no dead ends wherein the right monsters with easy affixes spawned with good density, and who might have happened upon a Conduit Pylon when a pushover Rift Guardian spawned.

I'll say it again; there will never be any real "competition" in this game until Blizzard standardizes every instance of Greater Rifts.

Steve Austin
10/06/2014 03:37 PMPosted by Grimiku


For the most part, Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick (or meter stick, if we’re waxing Metric) by which players can measure the power growth of their hero


You completely failed at achieving this. I would explain why, but there's no point. You guys dont listen to people during the PTR so why would anyone listen now ?

10/07/2014 01:30 PMPosted by MiddleGate
Hey everyone remember that an 'infinite dungeon' was asked for. No we have it and people are upset they can't reach then end of it. Irony.


This is not it at all.

People are upset because they have to do stupid trials (no one wants to play) that are suppose to "accurately" judge how high of a grift you can do, even though blizzard's own system contradicts this and purposely gives you a lower level key.

People are upset because they go inside a grifts and there's no mobs inside to kill.

People are upset because some classes only hope for completing a higher level grift is spending several minutes running around like an idiot looking for a conduit shrine just so they can kill the RG.

People are upset because the majority of these issues were brought up during the PTR and you know what was done about it ? Nothing.
10/06/2014 03:37 PMPosted by Grimiku
There is some confusion that comes up from time to time about the role that Greater Rifts are intended to play, and I’d like to take a moment to help try and clear that up.

For the most part, Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick (or meter stick, if we’re waxing Metric) by which players can measure the power growth of their hero, as opposed to something that is meant to be completed in its entirety. Part of the confusion about the intended role of Greater Rifts might come from the fact that, during the public test phase of patch 2.1.0, there was a temporary cap in place (for testing purposes), and some players were able to reach that limit while the PTR was running. However, we never intended to allow players to reach the maximum level of what Greater Rifts offer once the system went live. In fact, for all intents and purposes, the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.


No offence intended here, as I certainly recognize that you're not exactly responsible for the design decisions which led to Greater Rifts, but what in the hell was the development team thinking here?

Just a note: none of the pending rant is directed at Grimiku, or any of the other forum blues. That said, here goes.

Firstly, a measuring stick in terms of class performance is only really useful if one of your larger remaining issues in the game is balancing classes against each other. News flash: it isn't. There are a host of issues that are far more important right now, beginning most notably with a massive lack of build diversity.

Beyond that, and discounting problems introduced by Greater Rifts, I think most would agree with the idea that inventory management issues (including auto-pickup options), itemization, monster density in normal Rifts, a lack of PvP, a lack of even limited trading, and a complete lack of incentives to do Campaign or Bounties, are all far more serious problems than class balance.

In short, Blizzard, you have your plate full already. Despite this, your plan for the first major content patch released post-RoS is a measuring stick? And not just any measuring stick, mind you. No, your measuring stick was advertised as new end-game content, despite being riddled with balance issues. It was advertised as the new thing to do, despite being coupled with ridiculously horrible mechanics in terms of monster consistency and rewards.

You wasted months of development time on a poorly-implemented measuring stick. You exacerbated this atrocious decision by misrepresenting it as something that it wasn't. And now you're seeking to clean up our confusion, as if your original intent beyond Greater Rifts has any remaining relevance?

For shame, Blizzard. For shame.
10/07/2014 02:43 PMPosted by Bloodyzbub
the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.

I love this endless dungeon <3
10/06/2014 03:37 PMPosted by Grimiku
However, we never intended to allow players to reach the maximum level of what Greater Rifts offer once the system went live. In fact, for all intents and purposes, the number of Greater Rift levels currently has no limit.


You do realize that while Grifts have "no limit" your itemization and RNGesus does. Eventually someone with max gear will hit GR50 as example and that will be the set limit for rifts this game has. till u make stronger items or decide to fix itemization to where more can be done to raise our stats.
If it was meant to be a decent measuring stick, we should all have an equal stick, not separate ones per class.
Get that Dev here, so he can tell us, what he wanted to invent by making this GRifts.
And let us ask him, if he ever played it too?

GRifts are no measure tool for us, it is another stupid total random thing with no fair chances for everyone and at last it is no way of tool to see, if a player has gotten better.
Because if he played GR10 example and needed 5 MInutes example, then he does GR11 and needed 14 Minutes because of no mobs, terrible stupid maps, then it would mean, he has not gotten better, no in contrary he has gotten worse.
But in next GR 12 he finds lucky good maps with even monsters, so it was easy for him to reach the end in 5:30 Min, it does not mean, he is better now.
It means only he was lucky to have not the stupid maps as before.

This you call measure, sorry failed in total
I have many complaints about the game that range from diversity, classes, point of leaderboards/RNG to the basic design.

However whether you cap out at Grank 40,50 or 100 isn't one of those complaints and that energy could be focused on many more important fronts, i can understand the unavoidable damage complaints but even then you won't make it to Grank 100 because of how the monster hp scales anyway grank 100 would just be tedious (more of the same) so definately not needed although the system could use som fine tuning so that relies less on RNG.

Also if they ever make it so Grank 100 is possible i could almost promise that they would adjust the xp and gold from it since it will be so much easier, blizz have already nerfed most stuff/runs that gives large amount of it so it only make sense.
10/06/2014 06:09 PMPosted by pattycake
You need to add "luck" in that statement.

GR is mostly luck.. at a certain level though, if your hero is stronk then yeah, you dont need luck, but the top 10 of a class is, most certainly, luck based GR.


In general, we use randomness in Diablo III to increase the replayability—Greater Rifts included. At the same time, we don’t want Greater Rifts to be so random that it feels like your success is completely at the mercy of a random number generator. Ideally, the randomness within Greater Rifts should keep each Rift level feeling fresh and provide for some unexpected moments of excitement, as well as test how well a player is able to adapt to controlled amounts of unpredictability (i.e. randomness).

At the moment, though, we do feel randomness plays too heavy a role in Greater Rifts, and will be making improvements along those lines. No firm date on this, but just wanted to note that we’re on the same page. Valid feedback, and thanks!
10/13/2014 12:20 PMPosted by Grimiku
10/06/2014 06:09 PMPosted by pattycake
You need to add "luck" in that statement.

GR is mostly luck.. at a certain level though, if your hero is stronk then yeah, you dont need luck, but the top 10 of a class is, most certainly, luck based GR.


In general, we use randomness in Diablo III to increase the replayability—Greater Rifts included. At the same time, we don’t want Greater Rifts to be so random that it feels like your success is completely at the mercy of a random number generator. Ideally, the randomness within Greater Rifts should keep each Rift level feeling fresh and provide for some unexpected moments of excitement, as well as test how well a player is able to adapt to controlled amounts of unpredictability (i.e. randomness).

At the moment, though, we do feel randomness plays too heavy a role in Greater Rifts, and will be making improvements along those lines. No firm date on this, but just wanted to note that we’re on the same page. Valid feedback, and thanks!


Thanks for listening to (and acting on) our feedback.

Edit: Same goes for our feedback on the Veiled Crystal shortage before it was hotfixed.

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