Blizzard Devs, did you make to GR100...

General Discussion
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10/06/2014 05:47 PMPosted by Gnosis
Conduit Pylon a very good measure of power growth, No?


Ideally, we don’t want to remove pylons from Greater Rifts, since we like the variety they provide, but we also don’t like the current situation where certain classes and builds are able to defeat a Rift level multiple ranks higher than could normally thanks to a single pylon (in this case, a Conduit Pylon).


I think you mean that certain class and build can ONLY kill the rift guardian of the rift level they can easily clear thanks to a pylon.....

The problem for the class and build you are referring to is not the pylon, but the absolute trash that is single target damage...
Sadly the conduit pylon manage to disguise how completely broken the game is for some classes, especially barbarians. Without pylons barbarians single target damage is pitiful. Being within melee range is pointless because you die. Often and a lot. Which is a problem for a melee class.
10/13/2014 03:14 PMPosted by Rectis


You said Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick to test your character. How does a Pylon show us how strong we are? Do you even Greater Rift?

Not sure if trolling...

Just fix your game.


So lets say you complete a 42 without a pylon, and then really struggle with 43 and can never beat it. One day you end up with a good rift with a conduit and you beat a 43.

From your experience with that don't you know how powerful your character is? You can beat a 42 anyday, but a 43 requires a conduit. Seems like the yardstick is working at least as a yardstick.
10/13/2014 03:23 PMPosted by Numeno
10/13/2014 03:14 PMPosted by Rectis


You said Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick to test your character. How does a Pylon show us how strong we are? Do you even Greater Rift?

Not sure if trolling...

Just fix your game.


So lets say you complete a 42 without a pylon, and then really struggle with 43 and can never beat it. One day you end up with a good rift with a conduit and you beat a 43.

From your experience with that don't you know how powerful your character is? You can beat a 42 anyday, but a 43 requires a conduit. Seems like the yardstick is working at least as a yardstick.


Theres also RNG because of mob types, density.

Why should we also get RNG Pylons then?

Why should you be able to clean a GR45 ONLY with a conduit pylon? that doesn't make sense.
10/13/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Grimiku
As with other factors in Greater Rifts—density, monster types, Rift Guardians, etc—finding a good balance between random vs. predictable is something we’re going to continue to iterate and improve upon for Greater Rifts, and that includes pylons too. Ultimately (as I noted in another post), randomness in Greater Rifts should create positive variety and a sense of excitement. We don’t think we’ve nailed that in all areas just yet, so we appreciate all the discussion and dialog on this topic in the meantime.


Are you guys aware at the current top level of grift high density is actually something people don't want? Your servers cannot process the information and everything that is going on and usually just lag people which leads to death (last sometimes for over 1 minute for the server to catch back up processing all the information).

This is becoming a huge problem for those trying to progress at that level and needs to be taken care of also.

Many streamers who play group high level grifst encounters this daily.
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You said Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick to test your character. How does a Pylon show us how strong we are? Do you even Greater Rift?

Not sure if trolling...

Just fix your game.


Right on the spot. lol
I am missing open Area Maps (Fields of Misery,Weeping Hollow,Battlefields of Eternity,Desolate Sands ...) in greater rifts. Making progress through caves is somewhat boring.
10/13/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Grimiku
10/06/2014 05:47 PMPosted by Gnosis
Conduit Pylon a very good measure of power growth, No?


Pylons can be a hell of a lot of fun to encounter in game, and that’s one of the big reasons we added them to Greater Rifts.

That said, we do agree that pylons, at least in their current form, have had negative effect on Greater Rifts for the top end. Ideally, we don’t want to remove pylons from Greater Rifts, since we like the variety they provide, but we also don’t like the current situation where certain classes and builds are able to defeat a Rift level multiple ranks higher than could normally thanks to a single pylon (in this case, a Conduit Pylon).

As with other factors in Greater Rifts—density, monster types, Rift Guardians, etc—finding a good balance between random vs. predictable is something we’re going to continue to iterate and improve upon for Greater Rifts, and that includes pylons too. Ultimately (as I noted in another post), randomness in Greater Rifts should create positive variety and a sense of excitement. We don’t think we’ve nailed that in all areas just yet, so we appreciate all the discussion and dialog on this topic in the meantime.


There is one thing that completely overshadows everything else here:

Over time, what will happen is that those lucky enough to find a Conduit close to the boss will be the ones populating the top 100 scores on the leaderboards. THAT is what is going to dictate who gets a "top spot". Is THAT something that is an O.K. prospect?
10/06/2014 05:47 PMPosted by Gnosis
Conduit Pylon a very good measure of power growth, No?


Ultimately (as I noted in another post), randomness in Greater Rifts should create positive variety and a sense of excitement. We don’t think we’ve nailed that in all areas just yet, so we appreciate all the discussion and dialog on this topic in the meantime.


Extreme randomness in Greater Rifts does not create excitement, it creates frustration because if you are unlucky you get far worse results. Why should people need to farm rifts just to find a decent one with ALL the rng factors in their favor (density, conduit, no act 5 mobs ect). Remove a few of these variables and make it balanced please. RNG is inherently unbalanced, and we DON'T need layers of it in Grifts. Luck is the best factor right now, and that's just stupid.
10/13/2014 03:32 PMPosted by MisterAjikko
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You said Greater Rifts are intended to act like a yardstick to test your character. How does a Pylon show us how strong we are? Do you even Greater Rift?

Not sure if trolling...

Just fix your game.


Right on the spot. lol


Blunt, but I have to agree.
Pylons and shrines should not belong in Grifts. Grifts should be about playing your character effectively. Randomness does play a factor in what mobs you get but that is the replayability portion of the game.

Furthermore, trials are boring. Vendor Orek please. (You can buy a key from him using a trial keystone as long as you've cleared that grift within the time limit. Trial keystones can still be used if the person(s) desire to do the trial.)
i think at this point i will sh!t a cat if another expansion comes out after grinding to find all the next generation of items. From vanilla to ros was nice and it changed my playing style (not better if i think about it). But it made 99% items useless and to make everything we have all ground for useless would make me a sad panda. I wonder if blizzard and apple share notes? AN EXTRA HALF AN INCH WILL BLOW YOUR MIND ($699+tax)!! I think just keep adding better items and make other sets viable. Slowly give us the opportunity to reach the unreachable. oh well f*ck it they are going to do what ever they want and i'll be looking forward to seeing 60 or maybe 100 gr lvl by spending more money. maybe if we learn how to triforce we get a lvl 60 key......(greatest troll ever)
10/06/2014 06:14 PMPosted by Karnage
Now thank you and have a good day sir!


Thanks, and have yourself a good day too! We’re making sure to pass along all of the feedback we’re seeing, and yours included.
10/13/2014 02:38 PMPosted by Grimiku
As with other factors in Greater Rifts—density, monster types, Rift Guardians, etc—finding a good balance between random vs. predictable is something we’re going to continue to iterate and improve upon for Greater Rifts, and that includes pylons too.


I am okay to see a pylons, mob density and types variation. I agree that these variations give excitement to players. The point is sometimes (kind of frequent actually) you see a rift and the mob density is so low, after DS for 2-3 times (I main as a monk) what you see is just 2-3 skeleton archer or even imps. Then you already know you probably fail in this rift.

I must say the main problem is the mob density sometimes is too low!
10/06/2014 03:39 PMPosted by Ren
they didnt thought about "balancing" because it should be like "here no end" so they just increased dmg not caring if whatever

And that is a part of the problem. IT opens the door to power-cree. It makes it´impossible to balance the game and its damage mechanics properly, with content that never stops to scale, it will mean that people always go for the most powerfull option that is available, and D3s characters are not really that well balanced right now. In the case of D3 you also have a lot of randomness, not only with the items and rolls, but also with the content in front of you because certain monsters, affixes and monster-traits are a lot more powerfull then the rest.

A topless tower, a bottomless pit, this is poor game design
Why do you say that? Because it doesn't appeal to you?
...
So stop trolling and stop using hyperbole like... "oh it's poor design". It's not. Blizzard may have IMPLEMENTED it poorly, but it is not bad design.

Because it makes it pretty much impossible to properly balance the game mechanics. I dont think that people would disagree with unlimited content, that is a nice thing to talk about! But there are not many games out there that can really offer you that, because in reality, this is virtualy impossible to realize, at least outside of MMOs. Diablo 3 as game was never created with the idea that it would have unlimited scaling, either with the difficulty or the monsters. Like said, this means that certain mechanics will always dominate over all the other options, be it with monsters (see the issue with Jailer) or player mechanics and skills. Certain items and skills will be seen as "viable" for the higher rifts while other affixes will be clearly the ignored options.

It is not so much that it is poor design, but it is incredibly difficult to balance a game around this mechanic when the game was never meant to work like that in the first place.
Why don't greater rifts scale quantity of kills required more than monster damage/health?

I'm not saying don't scale HP/Dmg to some degree, but it becomes, literally, insurmountable at and after a certain stage to only those up.

OR

Choose one to scale over the other and defaulting to T6:
a) T6 max damage and scaled HP
b) T6 max HP and scaled damage
10/07/2014 03:55 AMPosted by rozetta
As for what they are intended to be, I am happy with how Greater Rifts work myself. I have found that getting gear upgrades have allowed me to consistently beat ranks I was previously having trouble with, and keep pushing a little further. This has added longevity to the game for me currently.

I will echo the sentiments of many others in stating that empty rifts and long tunnels are not the sort of fun experience I am looking for and I hope you are able to iron out the relevant algorithms and provide a more consistent experience in the future.


It’s certainly our goal to continue to tweak and edit and improve the Greater Rift experience, so thank you for the solid feedback. I’m glad you’re having a great time, though. In addition to beating your own personal best, we also want to make sure the rewards along the way feel worth it. Greater Rifts should be a fun and rewarding activity for all players, even if you aren’t on the leaderboards (or necessarily working your way towards them).
Has predetermined seeds be considered?

For instance at the start of every day a new seed is picked for each level of Greater Rift that applies to all users. Anyone who wishes to play Greater Rift 25 will have the same rift as everyone else and so on. The time period could even be a matter of minutes. If you set a seed to be active for 1 hour then that gives the potential for 4 attempts of a Greater Rift which would give all users equal oppourtunity on higher leaderboard positions while still preserving the RNG to an extent.
10/13/2014 05:29 PMPosted by Grimiku
10/07/2014 03:55 AMPosted by rozetta
As for what they are intended to be, I am happy with how Greater Rifts work myself. I have found that getting gear upgrades have allowed me to consistently beat ranks I was previously having trouble with, and keep pushing a little further. This has added longevity to the game for me currently.

I will echo the sentiments of many others in stating that empty rifts and long tunnels are not the sort of fun experience I am looking for and I hope you are able to iron out the relevant algorithms and provide a more consistent experience in the future.


It’s certainly our goal to continue to tweak and edit and improve the Greater Rift experience, so thank you for the solid feedback. I’m glad you’re having a great time, though. In addition to beating your own personal best, we also want to make sure the rewards along the way feel worth it. Greater Rifts should be a fun and rewarding activity for all players, even if you aren’t on the leaderboards (or necessarily working your way towards them).


So why don't you make more small changes?

No one wants to wait 6 months for a single patch.

Why not remove trials and release it in a smaller patch? It's like you don't even pay attention about things like that
10/13/2014 12:20 PMPosted by Grimiku

At the moment, though, we do feel randomness plays too heavy a role in Greater Rifts, and will be making improvements along those lines. No firm date on this, but just wanted to note that we’re on the same page. Valid feedback, and thanks!


first of all, remove trial rifts. then, make improvements to the randomness.

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