Poison v Fire V Phys Discussion.

Witch Doctor
I noticed a lack of actual element debate or theory crafting. There are posts like "which skill rune" and "poison dog #1 RG slayer" but not any that compare the specs. More or less individual posts and quick questions here or there.

Things that are already established:
-Fire for t6 aoe farm runs.
-Poison DOG #1 elite slayer.
-Phys helps encourage tankier builds (life link) and has the benefit of boosting FS damage.

So what about a full poison or physical build? All pets. I'd like to compare and discuss the benefits of each. Not just "poison dog and random FA" but things like poison dog/garg/head hunters.

For example, running poison with bracers + Swamp walkers + (hopefully soon ring/ammy) with the toxin gem (also benefits, like Pain Enhancer does from phys) lets me run Bad Medicine for a godly team based WD. Toxin 10% + BBV from SMK spam + Piranha if I man up and drop garg. Great team build.

So opinions, thoughts, tests? Let us know here!
I run poison dog and fire fetishes in GRifts as i only have poison dmg on bracers and MOJ makes up more.

I use the fire fetishes to refresh FA the fastest which does more dmg overall for me when i can reposition them more often and the fire breathers fire as soon as you cast them so i cast just after they have attacked, getting another free attack.
Poison is slower in my experience, but I like it more regardless. It's more WD like.
I actually use both poison and physical in my pet build and seems work pretty well with the skills. More diverse and balanced to my skill set.
physical for me since i am using leeching beast and FS...i have lost some +physical gear but its still so-so
Ive done some testing in this area. I tested poison versus physical. I have never ran fire. For me, I think physical wins out in pure dps, simply because it benefits all of your fetishes and not just the 7 or 8 that spawn with fetish army. Poison build will net you a harder hitting dog however, but there are lots of times where the dog simply isnt attacking, or gets stuck behind fetishes. I have both a poison build and a physical build but ive been running physical almost exclusively lately.
Well for harder grifts, maximum DPS is Legion of Daggers, Physical element on bracers/amulet/whatever, and Rabid Dogs.
I've been trying out fire a ton, and it's INSANE with GI and WP. The aoe on tiki torchers and the aoe dog damage makes it so our 'aoe weakness' doesn't even exist. Top that with a bleed enhancer / toxin gem and RoT, and it feels really, really nice.
Until they fix the zombie dog, physical will be the best choice.

The zombie dog needs either greater range, or he should be able to run through fetishes (stand on top of them) - which makes sense considering how fetishes are about the size of his legs. He also needs a longer leash. Right now he's basically AFK 30-50% of the time.

Fetishes are thus more reliable now (especially since their toughness boost). Go physical for stronger fetishes.
Fire, but may go back to physical again.
I agree with your posts about the zdog. It's amazing to watch him crit on elites for 150m+ damage... Except how he almost never gets a space with 23 swarming fetishes. Same with garg.

Even better, it appears they collide with other pets? I've had my dog afk when only having 2 fetishes out buy having m6 pet DHs in my group.

I feel like pet docs could compete with m6 and jade without praying for a god tier rift if our dog had a 95% up time instead of 50% on a good day. 120m base crits are no laughing matter, especially with his attack speed and bbv.
SMK or not will make a difference.

For non-smk my experience is SOLO:

High Grifts:

Need for dps Poison dog, Garg WP, + poison on bracers, uk offhand - Going for time clears

If just want to clear for gem upgrades and ok passing timer on your highest rift then go physical with leeching, slower but safer

T6 farming:

Same as timed clear set up with poison dog/WP but use ToD vs UK. Good with GI for much faster CD generation (ie: more uptime on Garg,BBV)

Again for Non-SMK.
I have tried a number of different builds with each and find purely because Sycophants rely on Physical damage, Physical is the highest DPS build.

I use Piranhas Wave of Mutilation, RoT in conjunction with Bad Medicine for pretty much constant 20% damage reduction to have some extra dmg mitigation, and just let my pets goto town.

I just need a +%Physical on SoJ, and a Hellfire Ammy with a socket, which I just can't get a good roll for the life of me at the moment.

And of course I need an SMK...
09/29/2014 10:25 AMPosted by Crabmaster
Well for harder grifts, maximum DPS is Legion of Daggers, Physical element on bracers/amulet/whatever, and Rabid Dogs.


why do we use rapid dogs vs the other runes for g rifts ?
09/29/2014 03:58 PMPosted by sLywayzz
09/29/2014 10:25 AMPosted by Crabmaster
Well for harder grifts, maximum DPS is Legion of Daggers, Physical element on bracers/amulet/whatever, and Rabid Dogs.


why do we use rapid dogs vs the other runes for g rifts ?


The poison damage stacks/ramps-up, so on high HP elites (RGs) it ends up doing the most DPS.

I can see the 1 extra fetish (LoD vs headhunters) would outweigh a bit of extra damage on the other 7 (assuming +poison) when you already have a MoJ, not to mention going phys would buff all fetish damage across the board (not to mention enforce is non element specific buff to pet damage). Although I do find myself wondering if toxin + LoD + poison dog + poison damage might swing you the other way, but then you'd have to outweigh the +phys on all fetish and pain enhancer.
Take into consideration crowding and small spaces.

In a door and hallway, what use are three more dagger fetishes if they can't get to the target? This is why I love head hunters. But in a wide open a2/1 etc map yea. But people underestimate the range and act like their melee fetishes have reliable 100% up time.
So poison is the best element now, running Legion of Daggers? I have zero complaints with the amazing damage I put out with my fire build. I'm always well over the 2.1m dps mark with Pain Enhancer, Hexing Pants and SMK.
For RGs, not necessarily poison ele, but the TMF Dog. 30% of the damage he does stacking. So lets say my dog did 100m for math's sake. Iirc his damage is bugged (dealing near 30% on the first tick and rapidly diminishing, but regardless, we're looking at 33m>66m>99m infinitely until the RG is dead.

So you can go 50% FireDmg and just run dog damage and be fine. I just like the toxin and bad medicine synergy.

Big stinkers aoe procs gems, Ps. Was shocked testing him til I realized the 6m ticks were including toxin. Also toxin gains %poison too.

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