Some math about hydras.

Wizard
I want to share some math about hydras with u. I've made some tests today.
Video was captured with locked framerate 30 fps.
My tnt has 46% increased pets damage.

Blazing hydra:
Char's AS only affects damage from hydras, not their attack speed.
Frames range per attack with TnT = 24 - 30
Frames range per attack without TnT = 44 - 55
So TnT work well here.

Mammoth hydra:
Char's AS doesn't affect it at all.
Frames per attack with TnT = 30
Frames per attack without TnT = 55
Flame River duration around 4 secs and it stacks.
TnT work well here too.

And at the end some damage output tests vs Ghom t6.
Blazing (Firebird,TnT,Cindercoat, Serpent Sparker) - 18,4 secs.
Mammoth (Firebird,Magefists,Cindercoat, Serpent Sparker) - 27 secs
Ordinary Fire build 1 (Firebird,Cindercoat, Maximus) - 26,23 secs
Ordinary Fire build 2 (Firebird,Cindercoat, Magefists, Sunkeeper) - 24,5 secs

So for me damage output from blazing hydras vs Solo target Much Higher in compare with other builds. But need to test it in GR's 38+.

And Yes)) i still have no Furnace. My eu profile here: http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Visss-2815/hero/47730632
10/01/2014 05:21 AMPosted by Visss
Mammoth hydra:
Char's AS doesn't affect it at all.
AS with TnT 1 attack at 1.500 secs
AS without Tnt 1 attack at 1.700 secs


confused at how you're getting 1.7 secs without tnt
BDF pores over your data in 3...2...

_____
-Melk
At the end of the day, it's all A Love Story
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https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeyMayez
-Lock your framerate to 60FPS
-Video Record the hydras
-Count the number of frames between the start of one attack animation, to the start of another attack animation
-Report those numbers
-Report the IAS% on your taskers
Blazing has always done well in Ghom tests, even back in 2.0.
10/01/2014 05:49 AMPosted by Melkor
BDF pores over your data in 3...2...


3 seconds!
Post edited, cause first time i didn't lock framerate.
Anybody know what better for GRs enforcer or zei's with both hydras?
Visss, how did you get the 4s duration for the flame rivers?

After the hot fix for hydras, I became interested in the exact damage potential for the mammoth hydras.

Assuming the flame rivers of hydra last 4.0s, 2.0 APS (achievable with one hand weapons and some IAS), serpent sparker, TnT with 50% PET APS bonus, then for an immobile target, after the build-up the theoretical limit for hydra damage would be:

330% (tooltip) x 2.0 (APS) x 1.5 (TnT bonus) x 2 (SS bonus) x 4.0 (duration) = 7920% weapon damage per second.

Adding the 3000% damage from firebird set, for immobile target a wizard can produce 10920% weapon damage every second. This calculation would depend on the accuracy of the flame river duration though.

Would you mind telling me how you got the 4s number? Thanks.
02/06/2015 12:58 PMPosted by Noctis
Would you mind telling me how you got the 4s number? Thanks.


He has five fingers on each hand?

I'm sorry... I couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, I've calc'd some hydra setups that can pump out over 45,000%+ WD/s with modest buffs in place while the FB DoT still lingers at 10,000%. There is some big damage potential in Mammoth if you can actually bring it all to bear on a target.

-dolynick
Well counting with your fingers can be quite inaccurate... I was hoping he used a more accurate method to calculate that, since the duration is a separate damage multiplier.

Yeah, mammoth hydra can have some really interesting potential. Since dot snapshot has been fixed maybe blizzard should buff wizard simply by extending the duration for the flame rivers. That would make the serpent sparker a very attractive weapon.
It might have dps potential but wouldn't you be giving up too much to run it? I'm thinking hydra on all gear possible, good smattering of fire% and taskers. Or is it just a matter of positioning and pulling groups into the flam rivers with black hole?

I have a few pieces of gear that i might like to try and combo for hydra now that my kite skills have leveled up a bit
02/06/2015 01:09 PMPosted by dolynick
02/06/2015 12:58 PMPosted by Noctis
Would you mind telling me how you got the 4s number? Thanks.


He has five fingers on each hand?

I'm sorry... I couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, I've calc'd some hydra setups that can pump out over 45,000%+ WD/s with modest buffs in place while the FB DoT still lingers at 10,000%. There is some big damage potential in Mammoth if you can actually bring it all to bear on a target.

-dolynick


7920%*1.35 (zei's at high level)*1.3(trapped at high level)*1.6(arcane dynamo)*group buffs. seems legit. sadly, that's still way below DH standards :\ at this point i'm gonna say they need to nerf DH pretty hard.
02/06/2015 02:09 PMPosted by kokopuffs
02/06/2015 01:09 PMPosted by dolynick
...

He has five fingers on each hand?

I'm sorry... I couldn't resist.

On a more serious note, I've calc'd some hydra setups that can pump out over 45,000%+ WD/s with modest buffs in place while the FB DoT still lingers at 10,000%. There is some big damage potential in Mammoth if you can actually bring it all to bear on a target.

-dolynick


7920%*1.35 (zei's at high level)*1.3(trapped at high level)*1.6(arcane dynamo)*group buffs. seems legit. sadly, that's still way below DH standards :\ at this point i'm gonna say they need to nerf DH pretty hard.


What DH standard?
the one where LFB does 1650% base, and with 5 sentries each cluster does 6x that. so 9900% minimum, then you apply skill damage and however many sentries are in range (and they shoot from several screens away). Max DPS potential of a fire cluster lies in the 55k% per shot range, multiplied by group buffs could be well over 100k% per shot...with an aps of 2 fairly easily achievable, with zdog or sader globe generation. mammoth would need at least a doubling of damage. i'd prefer it if DH were nerfed though, because the number inflation is past the point of silly and verging on egregious.

*edit* i'm actually lowballing the DH damage numbers by at least 20% since DH passives are light years better than wiz.
02/06/2015 01:55 PMPosted by Amos
It might have dps potential but wouldn't you be giving up too much to run it? I'm thinking hydra on all gear possible, good smattering of fire% and taskers. Or is it just a matter of positioning and pulling groups into the flam rivers with black hole?


At max hydra, ignoring whatever the difference in weapon is (30% elite or 20% fire, but you lose a primary roll, lower ais) it comes out to:

Losses -gains:
20%fire from Magefist - for TnT bonus
Vit roll on TnT - 1000 vit for ias
Mit roll on chest - 650 vit for +hydra
Mit roll on shoulders - 650 vit for +hydra
Vit roll on Source - 1000 vit for +hydra
Strongarm bonus - for Lacunis for +ias

I'd claim you don't need a cindercoat in that build if you aren't running dis, so no rorg. w/o rorg, and not running solo, CR+TP might be a usable option. Not going to put it in because it complicates things and is a separate decision.

So tons of loss on mit, I would also say you lose an AD/CDR roll on shoulder. Force armor probably needed.
You might not need 1 or 2 ias rolls depending on breakpoints.
So have we confirmed that Mammoth Hydra doesn't benefit from IAS? I thought Mammoth Damage now scaled with IAS?
02/07/2015 05:52 AMPosted by Mochan
So have we confirmed that Mammoth Hydra doesn't benefit from IAS? I thought Mammoth Damage now scaled with IAS?


All hydras, including mammoth, scale with ias, but there are breakpoints, meaning you have to get to certain attack speed for it to do more damage with ias,

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