Greater Rifts: Ramblings from a competitive player

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the problem is, this great feedback will fall into deaf ear just like another... :(
+1
Agreed, RNG, RNG and more RNG but even the RNG is tweaked based on an algorithm which is which is not 100% RNG based on a single pool of all things lootable for each class. Notice you always get Blackthorns consistently, based on a given random occurrence. Notice how many mandal heals drop consistently, albeit not back to back.

So there's a tier of consistent random drops then goes up to another tier (i.e. Natalyas rings) then another tier higher which is Taskers etc.

This crap algorithm needs to be completely redone. It should consider Game time + Progress (paragon, stats, etc) into the roll.

Just one of one more flaw out there. Great post again.
Fred
10/12/2014 06:38 PMPosted by nand
Anybody who has been playing Blizzard games for any amount of time has figured out that Blizzard absolutely loves using random number generators as a gameplay mechanic - both World of Warcraft and Hearthstone are filled to the brim with random effects; and Diablo III takes this to the absolute limit, while ignoring the “catch up mechanisms” and “guaranteed progress” of the other two games I named.

If I were to describe Diablo III to a layman, I would call it a “fractal of coin flips”; the same pattern repeats itself no matter what level of detail you choose to inspect; the entire system is based on uncontrollable factors - from gearing up and getting the right maps/mobs/density, right down to which affixes the elites have and where they decide to cast them. Here are some examples:

This is why I decided to just quit Diablo altogether again.

I just can't bring myself to keep playing this game when there's no way I can actually influence my progress by playing the game. I'm investing copious amounts of hours into a game that isn't even fun to play for what reason? To say that I was lucky enough to find what I found? Until the team gives up this notion that 100% random progression is the most fun way to go about slaying demons I don't think this game will have any appeal left.

I was excited for some of these other features that I've been asking for for ages, but at the end of the day the real reason why I loathe this game is because of the progression model. You could play, find that one single item that drastically boosts your DPS, then go months and months without making any one single improvement to your character.

The reason people play a game where they grind like Diablo is because sooner or later that grinding will result in some sort of progress being made either through wealth accumulation or guaranteed progress.

I hate trading, but it was really a means of making sure that grind payed off in some fashion or another. Since Team 3 blatantly refuses to refill this role with something else and since gold in this game literally cannot buy you power, there's really nothing to grind for and the entire game is just about guaranteeing your progress through it via the law of averages.

This game is nothing more than just a massive time sink with no real goals.
10/12/2014 07:56 PMPosted by DreUd
See you in the next patch, they probably wont have half of that stiff fixed though.


I'll settle for 1%, but I'm not holding my breath.
+1

Hit the nail on the head. Now lets see if a blue post is smart enough to actually respond to these points.
I don't like this "I NEED to use TurboHud" attitude that a lot of players have. Let's be honest, you are maphacking and pretending like it's no big deal because Diablo's HUD isn't good enough for you. I don't like when people say they are "competitive" and admit to cheating all in one breath. If you were really a good player you wouldn't be taking unfair advantages.

As per the rest of the post, I totally agree with all your points.
10/20/2014 08:48 PMPosted by ShadowAegis

10/20/2014 06:14 PMPosted by Orrion
There is, again, a vast gulf between your examples. Being competitive should not mean you're limited to 1 or 2 builds - not when build diversity was a selling point of this game and not when there are so many potential builds and the potential for more to be added later.

I'd be happy if even one fifth of possible builds for each class were competitive.


Do you realize how many builds that would entail, that would be in the billions of builds. That would not be possible unless you homegenize the skills/runes, gear, monsters, legendary gems, etc... I would dare say that within the next two years that they might be able to get it where there is around 10 builds per class that could be competitive. More so if another expansion is in the works.


.....................

I'm not sure you know what a build actually is. It doesn't mean "any random combination of 6 skills."
very good thoughts and ideas. i agree with pretty much everything OP said.
nice post. nice ideas. first of all, just remove trials. that would be an big improvement.

I dont care much about the competition to other players in d3, since it is all rng and the para advantages as you said. but thats ok for me so far. still I think you are right its a problem since they indroduced the ladder, so they need to balance even more to give everybody a similar chance to climb the ladder.
10/21/2014 05:37 PMPosted by Orrion
I'm not sure you know what a build actually is. It doesn't mean "any random combination of 6 skills."


You were the one that said possible. But still that could be in 100s of thousands, when you would consider whatever combination of passives a player would love to use. I might want a lot of defense to come from my passives as a wizard. While others might be more of a glass cannon, but both builds still might be a MM Conflag build. Then there would be variations of both builds.

I believe that over the course of the life of this game the devs just might be able to muster around 40 competitive builds per class. More so if they plan on doing more expansions, along with the tweaks to GRs, maybe even a few tweaks to paragon points where we can spend some to improve some of the skills that we use.

Sadly we will have to wait till Blizzcon in order to hear the news concerning what is in the future of D3. I really wish that this game was a little bit like The Secret World. At least that game has a letter from the game director every month. It would be nice to hear every month from Josh on the state of the game and what they plan on doing for this game. But I do not think that would be possible with the way the players are on the forums.
Spot on! Got a +1 from me. It's a shame however that the developers for whatever reason they decide to give will not fix any of this! In reality the effort of fixing alot of the issues you mentioned would require a MAJOR reword of most of the code (I.E. Elite/champions/bosses affixes) That's just something blizzard wont do.

It's really a shame to i've been saying these exactly same things since D3 closed beta! (However not near as well as you have put and i didnt offer any ways of fixing them) They are the biggest things in this game that bother me. I mean im not exactly happy with the skill system and the potions and all that having cooldowns but i could even overlook that if they fixed the elites/champs!

It took me a whole 1 rift to realize that GR's are not for me as the game is now. I refuse to participate in any grift that is above level 33 because I do not enjoy unavoidable damage or the affix spam by elites. I also refuse to rely on perma invulnerability or CC because that severely limits my character build options! So i stick to T6 rifts and GR when i need to upgrade gems.
It's definitely been stated before but the damage from jailer thunder storm and frozen apply a tick before the animation is noticed due to minute amounts of lag. I play at about 70ms and am dead before I can even see the affix displayed.

+1 for a .5 or .75 second delay on damage application.

Edit: if they change anything I can foresee this being atop the list.
10/22/2014 04:52 AMPosted by ShadowAegis
10/21/2014 05:37 PMPosted by Orrion
I'm not sure you know what a build actually is. It doesn't mean "any random combination of 6 skills."


You were the one that said possible


And you're the one who decided to interpret that in the dumbest way you could.

But still that could be in 100s of thousands, when you would consider whatever combination of passives a player would love to use. I might want a lot of defense to come from my passives as a wizard. While others might be more of a glass cannon, but both builds still might be a MM Conflag build. Then there would be variations of both builds.


Again, a build doesn't mean every permutation of every passive and skill in the game. It wouldn't be reasonable to ask for that, let alone asking for that to be competitive. But I do think it's reasonable to have more than 1 or 2 be competitive per class, especially when you have legendary items and set items to target skills and passives.

I believe that over the course of the life of this game the devs just might be able to muster around 40 competitive builds per class. More so if they plan on doing more expansions, along with the tweaks to GRs, maybe even a few tweaks to paragon points where we can spend some to improve some of the skills that we use.


Believe it or not, but 40 is actually way higher than the number I had in mind. I'm not even sure there are 40 builds per class right now. Our divergence is because we apparently have very, very different ideas of what constitutes a build in the first place.
10/22/2014 05:40 PMPosted by Orrion
And you're the one who decided to interpret that in the dumbest way you could.


Since you said possible and even those that have said it before you used Jay's number of somewhere around 1 to 2 trillion builds. Why even I know that 20% which is one fifth would be impossible.

10/22/2014 05:40 PMPosted by Orrion
Again, a build doesn't mean every permutation of every passive and skill in the game. It wouldn't be reasonable to ask for that, let alone asking for that to be competitive. But I do think it's reasonable to have more than 1 or 2 be competitive per class, especially when you have legendary items and set items to target skills and passives.


Exactly and I think that if given enough time and expansions, yes I hope more than one for this game, you could easily have more than enough competitive builds per class. Maybe even more than you could think.

10/22/2014 05:40 PMPosted by Orrion
Believe it or not, but 40 is actually way higher than the number I had in mind. I'm not even sure there are 40 builds per class right now. Our divergence is because we apparently have very, very different ideas of what constitutes a build in the first place.


Let's take a wizard, there are three skills all top level builds that I know of have in them. They are as follows; Energy Armor/Prismatic Armor, Familiar/Sparkflint, and Energy Weapon/Force weapon.

I guess according to you if I wanted to have a build be competitive then Blizz should never make gear that would allow me to fill those three slots with other choices. Because heaven forbid I use something else. I guess heaven forbid anyone wanting to be able to build a tanky wizard. I guess you want all to be glass cannons that fall over when sneezed on.

I would love to have a Dominance/Glavininzing Ward build, that is built all round having a constant shield up at all times. But even I know that in the higher torments the mobs would chew through that shield like it is nothing.

Or even take that barb that I am currently using as a gold farmer and take it all the way to T6 and GR 35+. But I would no doubt have to change some of my skills just to be able to do T6, let alone GRs. But if there is something wrong with wanting that then please by all means tell me what builds you would call acceptable so everyone could conform to your way of building as it would seem you are hinting at.
I'll just leave this here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWF7fNuId5w
How do you 'compete' in something that is 0 skill?
A bit late to the conversation but here are my 2 cents:

The fact that that OP came to the same conclusion after a very short time playing the game as many others who have been playing since launch, my self included, is a clear indication that the game needs a significant change.

That is not to say the game has not improved significantly, it has more content and is more fun that it has ever been, however there are a number of issues that currently are breaking the game, I'd go as far as to say they are killing the game.

The current biggest issue I see is unavoidable damage, there are many other posts that go into great detail as to why this a bad thing for build and class diversity so I wont repeat it here, but in short for me its this simple:

I want a really hard game, let it throw everything it has at me; If I'm skilled enough and geared properly I should be able to have a fair chance at beating it

Being 1 shot by unavoidable damage eliminates the fair chance. yes there are possible ways around it such as an immunity amulet, however this seems like a cheap fix to a broken game mechanic, and it should not be mandatory to play which eliminates the "skilled" part, another solution... go hide in another room, or better yet, run away.... (yes its come to this)

Another solution is having a support class hold the big bad mobs in place for so they don't hit you, this most definitely eliminates the skilled part.

When playing GR40 plus I am reminded of a time prior to patch 1.3, for those of you who did not experience it the game also suffered similar broken mechanics, if you can remember A1 spiders with Fast, Vortex, Electric, Invulnerable Minions affixes then you'll know what I mean, dont even get started on A2, it was insta-death the minute you stepped out of town.

The game was rescued with patch 1.3, and it needs rescuing again, things are dire and I know I'm not the only one looking else where to find that "tough but fair" challenge.

Cheers.
Nice write up OP. I agree with the majority of your ideas other than act specific legendaries. I think that would work better if it were boss specific.

10/24/2014 05:55 AMPosted by OldFashioned
I want a really hard game, let it throw everything it has at me; If I'm skilled enough and geared properly I should be able to have a fair chance at beating it


You should play the Demons Souls/Dark Souls series. Sadly it's only for console but it's exactly what you're looking for and tons of fun.
Awesome post. Totally agree
The RNG in Greater Rifts is fine for the most part. Conduits and other shrine effects need to be disabled when a boss spawns. Low-density rifts with Imps and Gloom Wraiths need to be removed and more "difficult" monsters (Vile Temptresses, Summoned Archers) need to grant more credit towards your completion bar. Rift Guardians need to be retuned; some are complete pushovers while others are almost unkillable for certain builds/classes. Chain Jailing removed, ICD added for blue Jailing packs. Trials removed.

There, a few fixes from a "competitive player" that would make the Greater Rift experience a lot more enjoyable. Nothing else major is necessary. People crying about "skill" games should play Chess or something. The people who perform the best on D3 will always be the people who play the game for what it is, in the most efficient way possible, and will never be people crying on forums for crazy fixes and "skill".

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