To those who wanted an endless dungeon

General Discussion
10/09/2014 11:22 AMPosted by JimmyJump
Its exactly how I imagined it. What were you thinking it would be?

Personally I wanted a MOBA style game implemented, maybe another time.


Will get flak for this, but personally, I LOVE the way Kino Der Toten map was implemented in the call of duty series. Basically, the created a zombie survival mode in teams of 4 players. You start out with basic weapons, and the more you kill the more currency you have to buy better temporary weapons and ammo. From the first wave of zombies, all enemies one hit you on contact. There are three changes for every wave.

1- The density increases greatly as the waves increase.

2- The health per zombie increases greatly as the waves.

3- You got better weapons to counter the health rising if you were smart, but not to counter the density. Density had to be defeated through skill.

GR30 is a little like wave 30 in kino der toten. Enemies start to be OP, and they can't be killed on sight anymore. In COD, a trail had to be done, to run in cercles while avoiding all zombies, and trying to get a few shots in. My max was wave 50 after 8 hours of non stop play. Can't pause. I slipped and make a tiny footwork mistake, a zombie bit me and I died, game over. Wave 40-50 lasted about 30 minutes to one hour each wave, because of the massive, massive health. I was going about this the most efficient way, I checked all time/dmg, vs ammo/time and cash/time, cash/bullet, etc.

Skip ahead if you don't want to read my experience

It may not compare on every level, but this is what I was expected from Greater Rifts. Enemies dealing the same dmg as T6, only shortly getting stronger, while their HP increases at every greater rift level. I didn't want a timer. If I can make it to the end without dying once, I can level up my gems *AND* keep going to the next level. This promotes many kinds of builds, and allows players to keep lvling their gems infinitely. Yes, mobs will keep getting stronger, but so do your gems!!! Keep in mind that in COD, there were no RPG elements. Every time I die, I would restart from scratch. I would play all day, non stop, everyday if I could play this system on my favorite arpg, d3.
I was expecting an actual endless dungeon.

I was expecting level 1 to be grift level 1.
Level 2 to be GR2, Level 20 to be GR20, and so forth.

That is the design philosophy I would have gone with.

I would also have gone with a location where you can hit a waypoint and travel to a GR Waypoint where you wanted to start. If you felt like tackling something hardcore today, you could start at 40 and enjoy the constant instagibbs.
10/09/2014 11:26 AMPosted by Snapshot
10/09/2014 11:07 AMPosted by DoomBringer
Does GR meet your expectations?

It certainly did not meet mine.

Out of curiosity, how come? They provided a series of "dungeons" which go on endlessly and scale in difficulty. They gave you leaderboards for any required epeen purposes. They even gave some really sweet loot. To help you love greater rifts it appears they even nerfed regular rifts. What's not to love?

This.

The only other part of an endless dungeon that I would have liked to see would be something that's truly endless but on a static difficulty. Floors of monsters and truly random zones where the next floor is just another mix. This would be something you could farm away within for hours if you wanted to rather than short bursts.

- Every floor cleared of 80% of it's monsters could reward the player with some bloodshards.

- Every 2nd floor would spawn a keywarden who rewards with a random key

- Every 3rd floor down would enter a boss room (read Rift Guardian or proper campaign boss battle. Players would get enhanced rewards from this fight such as a guaranteed legendary or perhaps a bounty cache)

- Rinse and repeat forever.
My idea of what an endless rift should be,

  • Similar to a regular rift, except there is no completion bar that summons a rift guardian at the end.
  • Most rifts have 2-5 levels with a town portal obelisk at the end, but an endless rift would have an infinite number of levels. You would never stop going deeper into the rift.
  • Each level in the rift is a random generated map from any act in the game. (just like a normal rift)
  • Every 3-4 levels, put a rift guardian near the entrance to the next level.
  • Monsters do not get more challenging from one level to the next (maybe slightly)
  • Each level you go deeper into the rift, legendary drop rate increases by a small amount.
  • This would be an actual endless rift. It ends whenever you decide you don't want to continue anymore. Legendary drop rate increases would be noticeable at lets say around level 20, which would be the players reward for playing an endless rift for 2 hours straight (or however long it would take someone to get to level 20)
    If someone would want to play the endless rift for like 6 hours straight and get to level 80+, then they would be seeing great legendary drop rates, but as soon as they log out, their progress is lost and they need to start over from level 1 next time.
    To be honest I envisioned it being like this prior to the release update but we got grifts.

    10/09/2014 07:19 PMPosted by Cepitore
    My idea of what an endless rift should be,

  • Similar to a regular rift, except there is no completion bar that summons a rift guardian at the end.
  • Most rifts have 2-5 levels with a town portal obelisk at the end, but an endless rift would have an infinite number of levels. You would never stop going deeper into the rift.
  • Each level in the rift is a random generated map from any act in the game. (just like a normal rift)
  • Every 3-4 levels, put a rift guardian near the entrance to the next level.
  • Monsters do not get more challenging from one level to the next (maybe slightly)
  • Each level you go deeper into the rift, legendary drop rate increases by a small amount.
  • This would be an actual endless rift. It ends whenever you decide you don't want to continue anymore. Legendary drop rate increases would be noticeable at lets say around level 20, which would be the players reward for playing an endless rift for 2 hours straight (or however long it would take someone to get to level 20)
    If someone would want to play the endless rift for like 6 hours straight and get to level 80+, then they would be seeing great legendary drop rates, but as soon as they log out, their progress is lost and they need to start over from level 1 next time.
    @Cepitore: Something like this would be a nice addition to the game and if I understand how the game is built it might not be overly development intensive to do. Nice post.
    Was expecting the difficulty increase to be more linear.

    The trials aren't perfect, but do a FAR better job at increasing difficulty. You don't do trial 42 then ask youself why it was way easier than lv 39. In GRifts sometimes you're left wondering why your lv40 GRift was so much easier than the lv36 you did 20 minutes ago.
    Endless dungeon wouldn't have a timer dependent on crappy density RNG.
    My idea of an endless dungeon would be this.

    - Dungeon levels are the same as what we have in greater rifts now with no loot/gold dropped.

    - Every 5 levels you encounter a rift guardian which needs to be defeated before you can progress to the next set of 5 levels.

    - Once you can complete 5 levels within a certain time, the difficulty and xp gained from monsters increases upon entering the next set of dungeons. If you don't complete the 5 levels in time, the difficulty does not change and you have to run the next 5 levels at the same level of difficulty.

    - Loot drops from each rift guardian the same as it does now. You can head back to town after defeating one to sell up etc. The timer does not start for the next 5 levels until you enter the area.

    - 5 levels at a time should be a good number to allow for monster density etc.

    - After defeating a rift guardian, you only get to upgrade legendary gems.

    - If you log out, you lose your progress in the dungeon. The cost to enter this dungeon would be 10 rift fragments, to continue your progress the cost is 15 fragments.

    - Greater rift fragments would be made obsolete.

    - Normal rifts would continue to operate how they always have.

    Any thoughts?
    Damit, someone posted with the same idea and beat me to it :P

    Kudos Cepitore :D
    10/09/2014 11:07 AMPosted by DoomBringer
    Does GR meet your expectations?

    It certainly did not meet mine.


    Is not exactly what we asked for... So no

    There is no bottomless dungeon
    Personally I was wanting an Endless Dungeon to be the sort of thing where you just keep going and killing until you die, where the loot and rewards you get are directly in relation to your kills and how far you got.

    Quitting out of one would just save your progress there, just make it a third gamemode next to Adventure Mode and Campaign.

    Then make the first 20 levels themed to Diablo 1 :3 <3

    Buuuut... GRs did surprise me and they did seem awesome, but now with the fact they need to eliminate the Realm of the Banished ENTIRELY and add in areas like the witch's cellar, and no exit 1 entrance only small areas, only add in an exit just via a portal, and stuff those ABSOLUTELY FULL WITH ELITES OR MONSTERS OF ANY KIND.

    Just give us that atleast, would make monster density crap itself, and would be pretty funny xD

    Oh also GR checkpoints for large areas don't exist and that itself is... well... the REASON we have revive at corpse. There are none aka. GRs suck sometimes because HUGE areas have 0 checkpoints between entrance and exit areas.

    Oh also GRs are usually winding, they're usually half-filled with monsters when they should be absolutely full with monsters, like how T6 should also be with everywhere.

    I also forgot to talk about how some GRs like the terror demon guy, and eskandiel (The corpse raiser boss who pushes you away with the light thing... practically makes a 30 second fight into a 5 minute one with melee characters.).

    Just some little things though. Since... you know... there hasn't really been much of a peep as to fixing Rifts and eliminating or changing things to make them more enjoyable, which is MORE of a QoL change than tweaking potion drop rates.
    id like an actual endless dungeon, but instead of being rift maps it would be just huge zones full of different things like say field of misery but randomized. when you go into another location on the map you go through one of those caves and wind up in another big cool map. or you could say go up to a castle and fight through that instead and hit a portal on top. boom next big cool place.

    there should be cool stuff to do on these maps too. there should be vendors you have to rescue so you can salvage and repair on the go, and every once in a while ubers should come crashing down on you to help their monster friends.

    no timers or anything, if you want to have a timer make it so the dungeon is falling apart and you got to get through it or die, like that a2 dungeon. there should be really tough boss mobs scattered about in unexpected places, like open a breakable door and the whole wall comes crashing down, seigebreaker time! stuff like that, click a chest have the floor cave in dumping you into a pit full of ghoms. make it so that every location on a map goes someplace else that is randomized and connected via caves or dungeons and youll have an endless experience.

    make it like a legendary item, maybe acquired through a quest or a drop and when you right click it in the uber room it takes you to the endless dungeon. if you want to really get slick have it tied into achievements such that when you get a specific achievement it unlocks a different zone or event in a zone, adding it to the pool it can roll with. that will give each player different experiences as well. someone might say, yo my dungeons got this unique encounter come check this out! if you want to get really slick let them add or remove global mods at the mystic. like gf or mf, only demons or beasts, or undead. that would encourage people to play multiplayer as well.

    really the possibilities are endless, and thats why endless dungeons are what people wanted. the current grift experience is too gamey, like a contestant in a gameshow rather than an adventurer. yes its obviously a game, but its straying too far from what at least in my opinion diablo is and should be and more toward a sport with rules and goals.

    anyway an endless dungeon would be sick.
    Actually, Blizzard did better on Rifts/GRifts than I expected them to do... still could have done much better though..oh well.

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