is the FPS issue ever going to get fixed?

Technical Support
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I have an i5 2500k running at 4.5ghz. I have 8 GB of RAM. I have the game running on RAID 0 SSDs. I have SLI GTX 770s. I play on a 120hz monitor. So my rig isn't a PoS. I went as far as doing a clean install of Windows and reinstalled the game. My drivers are all current. My system is in flawless working condition. I have no issues with performance for any other game I play.

Rakkis crossing and the same areas as everyone else, I drop from 120+ FPS down to the 30s and worse. This happens on my wife's system (albeit with a less powerful GPU). This happens on my i7 laptop.

3 different configurations, problem exists on all 3. My job consists of troubleshooting on a daily basis and I know how to build a PC of any spec. I have tried the same things as other people as well as some things on my own and nothing helps.

The people experiencing this problem are not morons. We don't all have bad computers either. There is something screwy with this game, period. For so many people to have issues that only happen in specific places (especially when performance is fine anywhere else) is more than a coincidence and people having crappy PCs.
I have some theories.

1. D3 engine can't handle a lot of sounds at the same time without performance hit. And there is a LOT of sound effects going on.

2. I don't know how D3 engine handles synchronization. Have you ever played POE? That game had gamebraking desync. My guess is - D3 syncing causes performance drops in multiplayer games.
dont let this topic die, up
What @Cupelix says.

Doesn't matter what type of computer you have. Blizzard didn't optimize this game properly, and judging by game's history, never will.
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ Give FPS
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ FPS or Riot ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
10/09/2014 12:37 PMPosted by Kyzonu
10/09/2014 06:43 AMPosted by Streblo
I realize I don't have the BEST computer but c'mon. 2gig AMD700 series graphics card 500gig HD 8 gig ram is more than enough to run this game but I still have to run it with everything off and at 720p just to get 50FPS so the game is playable...no its not my internet either. I've submitted multiple tickets asking for help resolving this but never get a response. Getting really annoying.


so... you call 50 fps "playable"? did you know the human sight can only process 24 fps?


There is always ONE of you.

Just because cinematic movies are filmed at 24 frames per second does not mean our eyes cannot process more frames per second.

For instance, I can most definitely see the difference between 50 fps and 60, as well as seeing the difference between 60 and 120.

Obviously you've never watched a movie on a 120hz display, because wow does it look incredibly different.

The thing with video games though is -- a game is made at a certain range. If a game is made @ 30hz, the animations are only going to contain 30 frames any frames above that are skipped. So if you're playing a game, lets say "The Evil Within" because I'm playing that now and it's a 30hz game, you can cry "Bethesda should unlock the framerate" but even if they do, there is 100% zero difference in 60 fps or 30 fps, because the game looks butter smooth at 30, since all the animation data is designed for 30 hz.

In other words, take a game like Quake, but say we designed it for 30hz. What would happen if we put the game in slow motion and ran it at 25% speed? It would move in chops. You'd shoot a rocket and literally see it move my teleporting small distances until it reaches it's location. If we did the same at 60 fps, you'd still see it teleport if the game speed was slow enough, but at the same speed as the 30hz variant, you'd see it travel move distance before teleporting.

The teleporting happens because the frame data doesn't exist. So the moral of the story is, no matter what the FPS counter says, you can only get the amount of frames that the game was designed in. If your frame rate is higher, lets say in Counter-Strike, since there are tons of people who are like "Oh you need over 100 fps to be competitive" this is absolutely false. CS is a 60 hz game, always has been always will be, so any frames you get over 60 are being dropped/skipped or are duplicate frames.

You need to be able to hit 120 frames per second to have 3D support in a 60hz game, but that's because the game has to render 60 fps twice, once for each eye.

If you wanted 3D in a 30hz game, you'd only theoretically need 60 fps, however, since 3D functionality is only supported on 120hz models and only in 120hz mode, you still need 120 fps for proper 3D, because that's native to the panel.

But yeah man -- when someone throws a baseball at me at 90mph, I see the entire path of the baseball smooth as ever, no chopping -- and you know why that is? Because our eyes can see well beyond 24 frames per second.

Go watch a 24fps movie, and put it in slow motion, you'll see it's choppy. Then go watch a soap opera and slow it to the same speed, you'll see it's smoother, because soap operas shoot at higher frame rates than cinematic movies.

Then go to youtube and watch some 300fps cameras in slow mo, and peep the difference between each.

Now understand that if a game is made @30hz target, it'll do the same exact thing as a movie at 24fps when in slow mo being that there are only 6 additional frames, the speed will be very similar and as a result, when you slow it down, you'll see the same exact animation skipping as in the movie at 24fps.

The opening slomotion scene of Reservoir Dogs shows you this immediately. QT couldn't afford a high frame rate or overcrank capable camera -- so what he did was shoot 24 fps, and play it back slower. There is still only 24 frames per second, playing out over 2-3 seconds each frame, so what you see is the slowmotion scene is choppy and unprofessional. Compare that to the matrix, which has perfectly smooth slowmotion, the only difference is the scenes in the matrix were filmed at MUCH higher frame rates.
On topic, I could identify the problem in 30 seconds or less if Blizzard invited me to their office. What they need to do is check the framebuffer -- when the game chokes out, the frame buffer is failing. If we looked at the frame buffer as well as the data that's loading into the framebuffer, we'd be able to instantly identify what's causing the slow down and why it's happening.

And the whole "We couldn't reproduce it" argument is garbage, because I can reproduce it with 100% certainty on a myriad of machines, both low and high end. I've tried to play D3 on about 15 different computers now, and they all choke out the frame buffer in the same exact situations.

I do however have a little theory of my own, which would actually give Blizzard an excuse for why it's not reproducible. My theory is it's the Always Online DRM that's choking the frame buffer. The reason there is no cracked/pirated copy of Diablo 3 is because the Monster A.I. is streamed in from the server. So if you attempted to decouple Diablo 3 from the blizzard servers, all you end up with is no monsters with a build that you can't even use your skills in. Skill data streams in from the server too. So what's happening, is these parts of the game have density that is so high, that there are a ton of A.I. pathing/attacking request being sent from the server and these are actually coming in slower than the frame buffer fills, the game forces synchronization, as so chokes the game out as it waits for this data to stream in. This is why when you boot up Diablo 3 for the first time, you get hitching and FPS chokes when you cast your skills for the first time. You're choking out from the DRM clearing you to use those skills via encryption keys. These were successfully sniffed in packets and employed offline, this is how I know this is how it works. It's not "Precaching" the skill effects to ram, that's not what the stutter is.

This is why when you play with 4 people, it's worse, as now you have the data for all of their skills, the synch is now being stretched out to 4 machines instead of one, meaning if one person in your game is lagging [internet latency to blizzard servers] it causes the frame buffer to stall for everyone. Say hello to the real reason for 4 player parties, because they can't use their DRM with 6 or 8, because it's already choking on 4.

Areas like Rakkis Crossing/Cesspools/Spire all have more requirements, they have higher density mobs, with more complex attributes/skills and what have you, that have to stream in from the auth servers.

Blizzard is sitting right next to their server -- so they don't have any server latency when they test the game, it's essentially like they are on lan, and so the streaming data can keep up with the framebuffer because their latency is <15ms.

I suspect they know this already and are just playing dumb about it, because if they acknowledged it as a problem, they'd have to fix it, and to fix it, they have to gut their always online policy/rewrite the games DRM, which is probably so heavily rooted in principle code that it would be VERY costly and time consuming to fix.

There are SOME people who can play the game without dropping a frame, locked at 60. You can watch them on twitch -- but all the ones without any issues are all in California. I.E. Very close to the source, and they all have fantastic internet packages, hence how they can stream source quality in real time without crazy compression.

So they all have absolutely amazing internet and they are all sitting directly next to Blizzard HQ.

Furthermore, when the 2.1 PTR came up, for the first couple of days, I didn't drop a frame either, in ANY of those places, Rakkis/Spires and so on, no matter how big the pack was -- I did also notice that my Ping to the blizzard server was between 30 and 50ms. My ping to the live server at the same time was 150-200ms. My ping to the live server now is 150-200ms. Which is absolutely insane -- considering I ping 80 to California and 10 to florida in Counter-Strike GO. [I'm based out of Florida.]

So the problem seems to be that Blizzard can't host servers, they don't have enough of them, they are overloading them, and where they locate them doesn't have a good enough variety.

Flash back to Diablo II, we had USEast and USWest, flash forward to Diablo III and we have "The Americas."

This is the problem.

This also explains why the console versions have better framerates. It's because they aren't Always online, and all the A.I. is streamed in locally on system, like virtually ever other game on earth. The only major difference between the console release and the PC release is the PC versions always on DRM.

Which is terrible. They don't have to have DRM to make characters unhackable, they just need to be saved and loaded from the blizzard server. We don't need monster A.I. to be streamed from the server, that's beyond ridiculous, the only reason to do this is to stop people from being able to make cracked private servers.

I.E.

Activision-Blizzards anti-piracy campaign is ruining the performance of the game for nothing but paying customers. There are ZERO people playing Diablo 3 who pirated it -- and after 2.5 years, there would still be zero people playing diablo 3 who pirated it, if the only online auth check was character saves on blizzard servers.

It's time to remove the DRM. This doesn't mean you have to support offline gameplay, and the DRM isn't what was keeping pirates away, it's the fact that you can't play the game without connecting to blizzard servers that's keeping the pirates away.

How many people pirated WoW? Not many, and the ones that did wouldn't be subscribers anyway. Their game experience is awful to boot, playing on cracked servers overrun by hackers and cheaters. But look at the official servers... Still populated and still unhacked. Same thing needs to be done with Diablo III.

Flash back to Diablo II again, Closed Battle.net = Diablo III, where we save our characters to their severs, Open Battle.net was custom local P2P hosted games matched through Battle.net

Diablo II's closed battle.net didn't need Monster A.I. DRM to stop people from hacking items. The only hacked items in Diablo II were through exploits in the game, the same as Diablo III's item dupes and what have you. So the closed b.net experience was actually better in DII, outside of bot spammers/gold farmers, but DIII takes care of that by employing BoA -- so again, there is zero reason for the DRM. The DRM is what is causing the FPS drops.

The game isn't even good enough for people to even try to waste the time to create "cracked servers" and essentially the game is dead already, so I don't know why we must continue having poor performance because we don't live in california/blizzard can't host adequate servers located throughout the region with viable latency returns.

GUT THE DRM. It's choking the Frame Buffer.
10/10/2014 01:59 PMPosted by Deuss
I have some theories.

1. D3 engine can't handle a lot of sounds at the same time without performance hit. And there is a LOT of sound effects going on.

2. I don't know how D3 engine handles synchronization. Have you ever played POE? That game had gamebraking desync. My guess is - D3 syncing causes performance drops in multiplayer games.


It's not the sound engine -- it IS the synch, but not for the reasons most think. It's the synch + the overhead of the DRM streaming to each individual player added on top of the synch.

Read my above post for more info.

You can shut the sound off and still have the <10 fps issue. Does the sound impact performance, yeah -- but only a few frames. The difference between no sound and 128 channels = 10 fps at max. My computer gets 300 FPS in town, and 10 FPS with 4 players.

Changing the sound channels bumps me from 300 to 296 in town. So it's not the sound engine, also those who have dedicated sound cards wouldn't be having any problems if it was the sound engine. That's just a scapegoat for the DRM, has been for the longest time.

Furthermore, we were told it was asset streaming to ram/disk reading that was the bottleneck, you see people putting DIII on 16gb flash stick and going out and buying SSD's for a placebo effect. As you can very well see from the forums, shutting off the sound and playing from an SSD does NOT alleviate the problem. Not even a "little" bit.

So we know the problem isn't hardware related, it's also not an OPTIMIZATION issue, as the game runs at over 300 fps on most power rigs in desirable circumstances. So this leaves but only one offender, Network traffic. Which normally couldn't kill your frame rate, but because of how DIII synch, and how the DRM works streaming encryption keys and monster A.I. to the end user, when one person chokes, it kills the game speed but dropping frames as it waits for that person to catch up.

This is also why Rakkis alone isn't really troublesome, but Rakkis with 4 people = 8 fps.
Interesting hypothesis. However one thing we can totally agree on is this..

10/17/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Laokin
I suspect they know this already and are just playing dumb about it, because if they acknowledged it as a problem, they'd have to fix it, and to fix it, they have to gut their always online policy/rewrite the games DRM, which is probably so heavily rooted in principle code that it would be VERY costly and time consuming to fix.


They are deliberately being obtuse about this situation, whatever the cause may be. The denial is strong, to strong in fact to be logical. Over the past few months they can not reproduce anything at all...even the new driver issues that has been reported many times over at nividia. I am just not buying it, and knowing the pattern of blizzard this is just a smokescreen. I mean if you think about it...a million dollar company is acting kinda childish. How bizarre..
I can only usually get 20-25 fps max on non-native resolution, high settings; frames drop at certain areas to about 10... but I have a low-end gaming pc anyway and I get those same FPS in WoW simply because my computer is low end when it comes to gaming. These games are definitely playable and I myself wouldn't get up in arms about it. Some people say -30 is unplayable but that's just ridiculous notion.

I understand the frustration of others tho because it seems majority of people can't get high frames in D3 even with powerful rigs. So if I spent hard earned money on a powerful PC and a game doesn't perform well, then it's definitely the way the game was made that is making it run !@#$ty i'd be very frustrated. BUT some other people do get high frames all times and say their game runs fine.. So what's the problem?? Do these people that I just mentioned have specs computers that were made for Diablo? LOL

Since Blizzard is one of my favorite gaming company, it saddens me that they in denial about this topic and wont address it properlly..
10/17/2014 07:50 PMPosted by Shoot2ill
BUT some other people do get high frames all times and say their game runs fine.. So what's the problem?? Do these people that I just mentioned have specs computers that were made for Diablo? LOL


Some people have different tolerance for frame rates. One of my friends that I recently built a computer for the sole purpose of d3..is completely oblivious to frame rate drops. Unless the sound starts to stutter heavily and the game engine just completely stops..he is happy.

Also a lot of people play solo, so the fps issue is not as much as a bother. So they may think the game runs fine..until they hit a 4 player game. Even then..rather than coming to the forums and trying to get it fixed..they just avoid 4 player games completely. I have another friend that falls into this category.

Then there are people that truly cannot tell 24 frames per second to be any different than 100 frames per second. I guess a lot of people may fall into this category. I myself can tell the difference between 60-110 maybe..

I mean the problem is pretty wide spread as far as I can tell. But as laokin has pointed out maybe latency has something to do with it. I am on the east coast here in WV, and all of my buddies are effected by this issue. A wide variety of rigs too, 32 bit, 64 bit, old and new.
Laokin, it was great read. D3 main problems explained in logical manner and it seems verly believable.

Sadly, I have near to no hopes that Blizzard gona ever fix this.
Its pretty sad its nearly 2015 and computer hardware is way more powerful than it needs to be for smooth game play. Nothing sucks more than when game play goes from smooth to choppy. Its the worst thing you can experience in a game other than game bugs them selves.

And I get fps drops in the same places as mentioned in this thread.

You'd think if WoW can do 60 fps with 25 players this game can do that easy with 4 players. For now WoW just has a better engine and its much older.
Bump on this thread, and yes im glad i finally found this explanation, have a totally new computer and bought d3, got boosted by old friends in the same country.... no lag or fps issues at all, (sweden= good isps). But every now and then in public games the fps just drops and i notice that the game isnt actually continueing without me. but i just thought i had something wrong in my directx settings or overheated gpu..

Alas After reading this i really have lost faith in Blizzard, its very true that the DRM is totally obsolete... only reason blizz can have for this is to protect their product and code..... at the cost of players actually being able to play without HUGE problems with freeze lag...Their are plenty of games out there that are massivly popular, with the old real money auction house i can understand the reason but now that everything is BoA ..... Blizz WAKE UP.....Your basicly forcing high end ppl to have to find 3 friends for Greater rifts cause youll just lag up when playing with 3 other public ppl that can have different ISP's..
I had to start playing alone because of fps drops... It's literally unplayable. This makes me sad, had to ditch playing in four man groups with friends. It's hard enough to find people to play with as this game is anti-social and dying fast.
Definitely not a hardware issue, I'm i7 Intel overclocked to 4.5ghz, 32g DDR3, GeForce 780 GTX Ti OC'ed, Samsung SSD EVO. In addition, I'm on a 60mb package for my ISP and I'm based in SoCal, I'm still seeing my framerates drop down to about 8fps. I do not have this issue with any other game. Laokin is absolutely right and we need to push for changes. They can stay up entirely, they can continue running this DRM crap while re-writing the next "big patch" which would completely remove the DRM and implement it during the weekly server maintenance what have you. It's simple, quite honestly I think D3 has come a long way, why Blizzard doesn't make the game better to keep the fans happy is beyond me...

Happy customers = returning customers which means they can cash in or on another Blizzard game or even possible D4? All I know, is the game started out really bad and they have put a lot of time and effort into proving the gameplay, why stop there?
10/09/2014 08:27 AMPosted by MrH
Cesspools, Core of Arreat, Spires of Heaven and Rakkis Crossing all drop me from 60fps solid to sub 10fps every time.

Same here. :/
If physicians would be like a technical support we would have heard "I have exactly the same leg as you and it didn't hurt!"
10/24/2014 11:59 PMPosted by nnr
If physicians would be like a technical support we would have heard "I have exactly the same leg as you and it didn't hurt!"


This. Exactly this!

I hold no hope for any response or even a half-a$$ed investigation from Blizz on the FPS problems.

Hell, I can't even play the game at all right now, so why am I complaining about FPS issues? Step one: lag. Step two: nearly die, because this usually happens during elite fights. Step three: the rubber band dance. Step four: TP to get rid of rubber band dance. Step five: disconnect.

So much fun!

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