WTB Explanation for lag yet again...

Technical Support
Thanks Dank and Hal...ran the MTR again directly connected to modem and experienced same thing albeit less frequency...although I had a random reset on my machine midway through MTR.

I need to crash for tonight but I will run a few more conclusive tests tomorrow evening after my kiddos go to bed.

Gnite and thanks all for your help!!!!
This is just food for thought and random stuff I experienced but maybe you'll find something here useful.

You are showing packet loss starting at your end so its kind of hard to imagine it as only a issue with this product. If you can get your ISP out on a service call, have them check the line from the box to the house. Then check the first splitter and all connections off it.
I recently had my isp out (4 times in a month, so watch out for the worthless tech they send out that spends more time trying to sell you a upgrade then looking at your issue) and boiled down to the line from the box to the house was bad. The first splitter was bad and one wall plate was bad. After fixing that and putting in my own modem and router I solved all my issues.
If you have your isp out and they try to put something that looks like this product on your line, watch carefully exactly what they do so you can remove it as soon as they leave, if you have issues. When the tech put it on my line I suddenly had 20% packet loss @ first hop from the house and my 65 down became 2 down and the 15 up became .5 up.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Eagle-Cable-Aspen-Signal-Combiner-Amplified-4-Way-Splitter/20516059

Looking at the trace route I just assume you are a charter cable user.
Compliant Modems on Charter's Network: http://www.myaccount.charter.com/customers/support.aspx?supportarticleid=2623
Don't want to get on my soapbox about why I speak out against the modem, router or modem+router combination that ISP's push on us.
I just recomend considering picking up your own product and if you do get at least docsis 3.0 compliant (most products are now 3.1 compliant) : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOCSIS
Excellent post. I can tell you from long personal experience that the modems provided by the ISP are often refurbished and/or the cheapest/crappiest ones available.

People often underestimate the impact of physical-level issues with wiring. Wires wear down, break, simply cease functioning properly, get damaged shielding from weather etc all the time. When you take care of a data center with thousands of servers and tens of thousands of cables you see how frequently this occurs. The guys who take care of our networking equipment are down there at least a couple of times a month testing and replacing faulty cat-5 cables I would bet LOL

10/10/2014 12:40 AMPosted by Maverick31
You are showing packet loss starting at your end so its kind of hard to imagine it as only a issue with this product.


Interestingly, packet loss isn't always a problem depending on what you're doing. TCP/IP is designed to be resilient to packet loss, but it wasn't originally designed with gaming connections in mind. Things like streaming video can cache future content, and if you wait 2-3 seconds for a stream to start, it can buffer ahead 10 seconds and while you are watching those 10 seconds it can buffer ahead 30 seconds. Even with packet loss, that will work fine because 10 seconds is plenty of time to re-request dropped packets. Ten seconds in a gaming connection is experience-killing. In a web browser, taking a half second to load a page is barely noticeable. Even a full second. Given the rampant browser bloat, it might take that long just to render the page! But again a full second in a synchronous gaming connection is experience killing...
This game is ruined for me. The random lag spikes is so frustrating I give up.

I can play WoW for hours my latency doesn't move.
I can play Star Trek online for hours my latency doesn't move.
I can play Star Wars TOR for hours my latency doesn't move.

I play D3 and I go from 80ms to 800ms until I die or get booted from my grift. I alt+tab out and do a speedtest and I'm getting 60/60. I fire up WoW and my latency is 80ms, go back to D3 and it's 800.

/Private Hudson Aliens voice "Game over man, game over"
Ganz - Depending on which WoW realm you are on, you may be connecting to a server in a completely different part of the country than D3. They are not all in the same datacenter. Also keep in mind your speedtest server is not the same as your D3 server. The path your data takes to get there is completely different.
10/10/2014 09:12 AMPosted by MissCheetah
Ganz - Depending on which WoW realm you are on, you may be connecting to a server in a completely different part of the country than D3. They are not all in the same datacenter. Also keep in mind your speedtest server is not the same as your D3 server. The path your data takes to get there is completely different.


I fully understand that. My point is that this is an issue with D3 and the ISP's that they've partnered with. I've experienced this with FIOS at home, as well as Verizon business, Cogent, Reliance and Level 3 at work.
There are only a handful of backbone ISP's out there. And again blizzard can't control that. Blizzard contracts with AT&T and has no power over which peering partners AT&T uses for which routes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone#Modern_backbone
Definitely frustrating to have this appear again. Wasn't too bad for me since people started having it occur again, but today it absolutely horrible. So much for the greater rifts I was working on...
Why is noone looking into the previous post i made? I can guarantee you that 90% of all the people that complains about lag are experiencing the lag created by the firebird dot or any other stacking dot effect. This have been posted A LOT but no blue reply on the topic yet. This kind of lag have been here since patch 2.1 and its VERY easy to reproduce in game.

Edit:
1. Bring a grip monk and 2 firebird wizards with fire hydra and fire blizzard to apply the dot.
2. Enter a greater rift 38-50 the higher the rift the easier to reproduce the lag.
3. grab a lot of mobs together and let your wizards build up their dots.
4. Enjoy 2k+ ms for your entire party.

ps. If your ms doesnt spike above 2k I'll give you all cookies.
10/10/2014 12:12 PMPosted by hal8999
There are only a handful of backbone ISP's out there. And again blizzard can't control that. Blizzard contracts with AT&T and has no power over which peering partners AT&T uses for which routes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_backbone#Modern_backbone


Guys I fully understand the concept of peering. 20 years in the business has taught me a thing or 2.

I've played wow in Europe, Mid-East and South America whilst stuck in hotels travelling for work. I doubt greatly that playing from there is any worse than playing D3 from within the US from a non peered provider.

I'm no tinfoil hat type but there's something else at play here.
10/10/2014 12:46 PMPosted by Gottan
Why is noone looking into the previous post i made? I can guarantee you that 90% of all the people that complains about lag are experiencing the lag created by the firebird dot or any other stacking dot effect. This have been posted A LOT but no blue reply on the topic yet. This kind of lag have been here since patch 2.1 and its VERY easy to reproduce in game.


I remember some of the dot lag way back when before the expansion on my WD. I don't know how much it is around now.

I am currently playing Monk and Barbarian on Seasons, and it happens to me plenty. It will happen moving from mobs, doing zero damage. It will happen mid elites or rift guardian, it will happen pretty much any time. While your thoughts may be happening to some people, I highly, highly doubt it is anywhere near 90% of the people posting about this problem.
10/10/2014 01:05 PMPosted by Driftlock
I remember some of the dot lag way back when before the expansion on my WD. I don't know how much it is around now.

I am currently playing Monk and Barbarian on Seasons, and it happens to me plenty. It will happen moving from mobs, doing zero damage. It will happen mid elites or rift guardian, it will happen pretty much any time. While your thoughts may be happening to some people, I highly, highly doubt it is anywhere near 90% of the people posting about this problem.


I am still very confident it all roots to the same thing that causes the lag i talk about. This kind of lag did not exist pre 2.1. We had a lot of rubberbanding, but nothing like this.
Got this from pathping test:

Tracing route to 12.129.209.68 over a maximum of 30 hops

0 user-TOSH.lan [192.168.1.77]
1 192.168.1.1
2 10.254.48.252
3 * 116.93.58.83
4 ip-converge.7.127.121.in-addr.arpa [121.127.7.165]
5 ip-converge.12.127.121.in-addr.arpa [121.127.12.233]
6 ge9-26.br03.hkg04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.252.241]
7 192.205.35.145
8 cr1.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.123.132.138]
9 gar5.lsrca.ip.att.net [12.122.85.33]
10 12-122-254-226.attens.net [12.122.254.226]
11 mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.242]
12 12.129.248.118
13 12.129.209.68

Computing statistics for 325 seconds...
Source to Here This Node/Link
Hop RTT Lost/Sent = Pct Lost/Sent = Pct Address
0 user-TOSH.lan [192.168.1.77]
0/ 100 = 0% |
1 1ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% 192.168.1.1
0/ 100 = 0% |
2 28ms 2/ 100 = 2% 2/ 100 = 2% 10.254.48.252
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 39ms 27/ 100 = 27% 27/ 100 = 27% 116.93.58.83
0/ 100 = 0% |
4 31ms 1/ 100 = 1% 1/ 100 = 1% ip-converge.7.127.121.in-addr.arpa [121.127.7.165]
0/ 100 = 0% |
5 48ms 0/ 100 = 0% 0/ 100 = 0% ip-converge.12.127.121.in-addr.arpa [121.127.12.233]
1/ 100 = 1% |
6 58ms 1/ 100 = 1% 0/ 100 = 0% ge9-26.br03.hkg04.pccwbtn.net [63.218.252.241]
0/ 100 = 0% |
7 204ms 2/ 100 = 2% 1/ 100 = 1% 192.205.35.145
0/ 100 = 0% |
8 --- 100/ 100 =100% 99/ 100 = 99% cr1.la2ca.ip.att.net [12.123.132.138]
0/ 100 = 0% |
9 --- 100/ 100 =100% 99/ 100 = 99% gar5.lsrca.ip.att.net [12.122.85.33]
0/ 100 = 0% |
10 --- 100/ 100 =100% 99/ 100 = 99% 12-122-254-226.attens.net [12.122.254.226]
0/ 100 = 0% |
11 --- 100/ 100 =100% 99/ 100 = 99% mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net [12.129.193.242]
0/ 100 = 0% |
12 --- 100/ 100 =100% 99/ 100 = 99% 12.129.248.118
0/ 100 = 0% |
13 188ms 1/ 100 = 1% 0/ 100 = 0% 12.129.209.68

Trace complete.
10/13/2014 07:06 AMPosted by Jigz
2 28ms 2/ 100 = 2% 2/ 100 = 2% 10.254.48.252
0/ 100 = 0% |
3 39ms 27/ 100 = 27% 27/ 100 = 27% 116.93.58.83
0/ 100 = 0% |


You have 2% packet loss on hop 2 which is either your modem or the first hop of your ISP. It gets worse on hop 3 with 27% packet loss. You need to share this data with your ISP.
|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| WinMTR statistics |
| Host - % | Sent | Recv | Best | Avrg | Wrst | Last |
|------------------------------------------------|------|------|------|------|------|------|
| 192.168.1.1 - 3 | 363 | 353 | 0 | 22 | 899 | 1 |
| cpe-174-100-128-1.neo.res.rr.com - 86 | 91 | 13 | 17 | 38 | 79 | 24 |
| tge7-3.peruoh0101h.midwest.rr.com - 77 | 99 | 23 | 11 | 17 | 31 | 17 |
| 24.33.101.208 - 83 | 95 | 17 | 14 | 21 | 32 | 26 |
| be11.clevohek-ccr03.midwest.rr.com - 82 | 95 | 18 | 15 | 21 | 34 | 20 |
| be25.clevohek01r.midwest.rr.com - 86 | 91 | 13 | 16 | 23 | 36 | 17 |
|bu-ether25.atlngamq47w-bcr01.tbone.rr.com - 82 | 95 | 18 | 39 | 46 | 58 | 39 |
| 107.14.19.160 - 86 | 91 | 13 | 38 | 44 | 57 | 39 |
| 216.50.76.41 - 83 | 95 | 17 | 40 | 45 | 59 | 42 |
| 192.205.36.113 - 82 | 95 | 18 | 38 | 46 | 58 | 44 |
| cr82.wshdc.ip.att.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 110 | 115 | 129 | 117 |
| cr2.wswdc.ip.att.net - 85 | 92 | 14 | 110 | 116 | 128 | 117 |
| cr1.cgcil.ip.att.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 106 | 113 | 125 | 115 |
| cr2.dvmco.ip.att.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 106 | 113 | 130 | 115 |
| cr1.slkut.ip.att.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 104 | 109 | 118 | 115 |
| cr2.la2ca.ip.att.net - 86 | 91 | 13 | 109 | 115 | 128 | 115 |
| gar5.lsrca.ip.att.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 108 | 117 | 146 | 115 |
| 12.122.251.186 - 83 | 94 | 16 | 101 | 143 | 259 | 136 |
|mdf001c7613r0003-gig-10-1.lax1.attens.net - 82 | 95 | 18 | 100 | 109 | 122 | 106 |
| 12.129.248.118 - 85 | 92 | 14 | 102 | 108 | 123 | 110 |
| 12.129.209.68 - 82 | 95 | 18 | 106 | 112 | 129 | 111 |
|________________________________________________|______|______|______|______|______|______|
WinMTR v0.92 GPL V2 by Appnor MSP - Fully Managed Hosting & Cloud Provider
10/13/2014 01:29 PMPosted by TheMadManHa
| 192.168.1.1 - 3 | 363 | 353 | 0 | 22 | 899 | 1 |
| cpe-174-100-128-1.neo.res.rr.com - 86 | 91 | 13 | 17 | 38 | 79 | 24 |


You have 3% packet loss on your router and then 86% packet loss on the hop after it. That is either your modem or your first ISP hop depending on how you are set up. Try the following:

-Power cycle your home network and PC. Yes, this is simple but a reboot fixes many things! https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/power-cycle-your-network-devices
-Double check that all your cables are securely plugged in. They can come loose when you least expect it.
-If you are on wireless try connecting directly to the router via eithernet cable. If that works then you know it is your wireless connection or interference with it.
-Try connecting directly to the modem instead of the router if yours is separate. If that works you know you have a router issue.
-Try running the game in selective startup mode so that all other software is disabled (note antivirus will be off). https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/shutting-down-background-applications If that works then you know some other software on your machine is causing the issue. The most common software issue is security software even if you don't think so. MS updates can play havoc sometimes as well.
-Consider updating your network card drivers and router firmware. I had to update both to fix my own DC issue.
-If nothing else works and your ISP owns that hardware, talk to them and share the data with them.
I connected directly to my modem and the lag was gone. This is the second router in 2 years that this has happened to. What is causing this to happen? Thank you!
If connecting to the modem helps then it tends to be wireless or router related. Try updating your wireless card drivers and making sure you don't have interference. You can also try updating your router firmware. Sometimes it is as silly as a wireless mouse interfering with the wireless connection. Glad you found a solution though!!
10/13/2014 02:21 PMPosted by TheMadManHa
This is the second router in 2 years that this has happened to. What is causing this to happen?


About half of all routers designed for home use are crap. This is one of the reasons behind a lot of ISP's issuing an integrated unit. For years they've had to try and troubleshoot home internet problems that include a piece of hardware to which they have no access, they didn't choose, and generally tends to stink. People tend to think of them as a throw-away $40 charge but you don't really start getting good ones until about double that price, and even then many of them have problems with overheating. Also almost NOBODY updates the firmware once they buy them, and a lot of consumers don't even know how to do so. Frequently these devices are issued many many firmware updates to fix problems.

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