Patch 2.1.2 Focused Feedback

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12/03/2014 03:32 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've got another update coming regarding the Sunwuko set. A slight change will be coming to the 4-piece bonus in the next PTR patch:

  • Monkey King's Garb
    • 4-piece set bonus has been slightly redesigned
      • When your decoys explode, you gain a buff that increases the damage of Cyclone Strike, Exploding Palm, Lashing Tail Kick, Tempest Rush, and Wave of Light by 500% for 3 seconds.

This should help make this damage boost feel a little less clunky and more reliable to use in practice. As always, thank you so much for your feedback and we look forward to hearing your thoughts as we move on to the next phase of PTR testing!


Compiled a list of buffs and debuffs as it related to Monk damage to highlight some mechanics on why Bane of the Trapped would be so good.. if only it worked on proc damage.

Class A : regular buffs/debuffs/skill
A1: Items that buff sheet dps - Sunwuko 2pc / Hexing pants /
A2: Legendary Gems - Bane of the Powerful, Gem of Efficacious Toxin, Taeguk, Simplicities Strength
A3: Self Buffs towards sheet dps - Assimilation / Foresight / Faith in the Light / Blazing Wrath / Fire Ally / Determination / Relentless Assault / Combination Strike / Unity / Momentum
A4: Most classical debuffs towards mobs from items or skills - Strong arms / Mantra of Conviction / Breaking Wave / Flesh is Weak / Forbidden Palace
A5: Skill damage affixes - +WoL, +DS, +LTK, etc

Class B : + Elemental Damage (+pets)
B1 : Elemental % affixes - SoJ/Amulet/Bracers
B2 : Pet % (Enforcer)

Class C : Elite Damage
Damage dealt to elites/beasts/demons/humans/etc

Class D : Bane of the Trapped
You deal X% more towards cc'ed enemies.

Class E : Zei's
You deal X% more towards enemies Y yards away.

Class F : Mythic Rhythm
Spirit Spender damage boost after using generator.

Effective DPS = DPS * (A1+A2+A3+A4+A5)*(B1+B2)*C*D*E*F

Currently Sunwuko on PTR is it's own category. G.

Effective DPS = DPS * (A1+A2+A3+A4+A5)*(B1+B2)*C*D*E*F*G

If the proposed change goes thru and the 500% 'Buff' is considers a standard buff in category A, it will be a SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION in damage output overall... even if the set will be easier to activate.

if we see this image below next PTR, most likely it will be in Category A : http://i.imgur.com/gArxYRr.png
A 3 sec buff seems like a nerf to me.... so explain why the set is better now with the changes to it please. And on a side not please for farks sake change the lousy 5 sec stacking buff on Rolands to 10-20 secs so it can become usable it makes no sense that you get stacks for fast attk speed which just causes you to instantly lose all your resource and then be stuck doling out trash dmg and being starved for resource.. At least if the stacking attk speed buff lasted longer it could be used to generate resource with a generator.

Instead im stuck tossing out endless pony barrage to the point where it has killed my intrest in playing Crusader.

Buff the Flail that provides wrath on hit more......
Give it a Proc.
Add a 6 set effect that makes you cast shield glare or iron skin every so often.
Make the set not suck you dry of resource and leave you helpless.
12/03/2014 03:32 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've got another update coming regarding the Sunwuko set. A slight change will be coming to the 4-piece bonus in the next PTR patch:

  • Monkey King's Garb
    • 4-piece set bonus has been slightly redesigned
      • When your decoys explode, you gain a buff that increases the damage of Cyclone Strike, Exploding Palm, Lashing Tail Kick, Tempest Rush, and Wave of Light by 500% for 3 seconds.

This should help make this damage boost feel a little less clunky and more reliable to use in practice. As always, thank you so much for your feedback and we look forward to hearing your thoughts as we move on to the next phase of PTR testing!


Please for the love of god, you finally are starting to improve monk in so many ways. Please, PLEASE make sure the buff STAYS multiplicative because it is a huge deal for us. We are not top damage dealers, we are not broken, we are starting to see some diversity and some very good moves by blizzard into fixing monk. IF this buff is ADDITIVE and not MULTIPLICATIVE, all your work towards fixing monk will go 1 step back AGAIN. Please again asking you to check this and inform us about this. Thanks in advance
We've got another update coming regarding the Sunwuko set. A slight change will be coming to the 4-piece bonus in the next PTR patch:

<span class="truncated">...</span>
This should help make this damage boost feel a little less clunky and more reliable to use in practice. As always, thank you so much for your feedback and we look forward to hearing your thoughts as we move on to the next phase of PTR testing!


Compiled a list of buffs and debuffs as it related to Monk damage to highlight some mechanics on why Bane of the Trapped would be so good.. if only it worked on proc damage.

Class A : regular buffs/debuffs/skill
A1: Items that buff sheet dps - Sunwuko 2pc / Hexing pants /
A2: Legendary Gems - Bane of the Powerful, Gem of Efficacious Toxin, Taeguk, Simplicities Strength
A3: Self Buffs towards sheet dps - Assimilation / Foresight / Faith in the Light / Blazing Wrath / Fire Ally / Determination / Relentless Assault / Combination Strike / Unity / Momentum
A4: Most classical debuffs towards mobs from items or skills - Strong arms / Mantra of Conviction / Breaking Wave / Flesh is Weak / Forbidden Palace
A5: Skill damage affixes - +WoL, +DS, +LTK, etc

Class B : + Elemental Damage (+pets)
B1 : Elemental % affixes - SoJ/Amulet/Bracers
B2 : Pet % (Enforcer)

Class C : Elite Damage
Damage dealt to elites/beasts/demons/humans/etc

Class D : Bane of the Trapped
You deal X% more towards cc'ed enemies.

Class E : Zei's
You deal X% more towards enemies Y yards away.

Class F : Mythic Rhythm
Spirit Spender damage boost after using generator.

Effective DPS = DPS * (A1+A2+A3+A4+A5)*(B1+B2)*C*D*E*F

Currently Sunwuko on PTR is it's own category. G.

Effective DPS = DPS * (A1+A2+A3+A4+A5)*(B1+B2)*C*D*E*F*G

If the proposed change goes thru and the 500% 'Buff' is considers a standard buff in category A, it will be a SIGNIFICANT REDUCTION in damage output overall... even if the set will be easier to activate.


Thanks for bring this over from the monk subforum.

Neva (or other blue), can you chime in on this? Can we get confirmation if the buff will essentially work the same way the debuff did (in terms of interacting with other damage buffs and debuffs)?

What we're saying is that:

1. We like more damage better than less damage

2. We like the way the 4 piece set bonus synergizes with other damage buffs/debuffs

3. If changing the conditional 4 piece bonus to a player buff from a monster debuff means that the damage bonus is moved to "category A", #1 & #2 would be getting overlooked. And this would be an unfavorable change.
12/03/2014 03:32 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've got another update coming regarding the Sunwuko set. A slight change will be coming to the 4-piece bonus in the next PTR patch:

  • Monkey King's Garb
    • 4-piece set bonus has been slightly redesigned
      • When your decoys explode, you gain a buff that increases the damage of Cyclone Strike, Exploding Palm, Lashing Tail Kick, Tempest Rush, and Wave of Light by 500% for 3 seconds.

This should help make this damage boost feel a little less clunky and more reliable to use in practice. As always, thank you so much for your feedback and we look forward to hearing your thoughts as we move on to the next phase of PTR testing!


Now this.....this is what i'm talking about. Would love to see more of this approach to dynamic set bonuses. Great looking idea.
They said it was a slight change. I doubt the multiplier type will change.
If Sunwuko now grants a buff to the player that increases skill damage far beyond the damage of the clone, the clone seems mostly incidental now. Maybe a redesign is in order for the 2 piece set bonus as well?
For the purposes of the lore I like the clone. I'm just as happy if it stays the way it is, honestly.
12/03/2014 03:32 PMPosted by Nevalistis
We've got another update coming regarding the Sunwuko set. A slight change will be coming to the 4-piece bonus in the next PTR patch:

  • Monkey King's Garb
    • 4-piece set bonus has been slightly redesigned
      • When your decoys explode, you gain a buff that increases the damage of Cyclone Strike, Exploding Palm, Lashing Tail Kick, Tempest Rush, and Wave of Light by 500% for 3 seconds.

This should help make this damage boost feel a little less clunky and more reliable to use in practice. As always, thank you so much for your feedback and we look forward to hearing your thoughts as we move on to the next phase of PTR testing!

PLEASE add Seven Side Strike to the list.

PS: Why not just:
- When your decoys explode, you gain a buff that increases ALL damage from Skill that spend Spirit
??
So if I understand right we lose the 3500% clone damage for the 500% other skills buff, correct? Or do we still get the 3500% clone buff AND the second buff?

I'm confused. :/
12/04/2014 05:56 AMPosted by WolvenShadow
So if I understand right we lose the 3500% clone damage for the 500% other skills buff, correct? Or do we still get the 3500% clone buff AND the second buff?

I'm confused. :/


you are right, but the consideration is as now the 500% is multiplicative.
SO, if your chosen skill (LTK, CS, EP, TR, WoL) rune is, in example, 700% weapon damage, your chosen skill will deal 700%x6, i.e 4200%.

this more damage than old SWK clones, and you can choose any of those 5 skills to perform this damage.

bottom line: more damage + more versatility
Now it makes sense. I thought it was a serious debuff, I think this is a great change!!!
this change to the 4-set bonus is pretty good in many ways. now you get actually to choose which target you wanna kill first instead of the random clone explosion.
if you want to go further and improve the set maybe remove the random clone pop-up explosion for abilitys like tempest rush and add an explosion around the player with the same dmg. this change would also make the explosion dmg less clunky and more focus oriented dmg rather then a random clone nearby close target
a realease date for the SWK 2.1.2.2 set ?
I can understand the reason behind the M6 change, to keep players more engaged in the game, to be honest if I have a choice I'd prefer to shoot things myself instead of using the sentries too. But I don't think the current proposed solution (+100% dmg to only "some" selected hatred spender for each active sentry) is the right way to go, as there surely are players who'd prefer the passive play style the live M6 gives.

The problem does not lie in which style is *right*, there will always be people who prefer one over the other. The problem lies in the lack of choice we have.

Players in games like D3 will always try to be as powerful and as efficient as possible, that's just human nature. Given that currently M6 set is the only viable one (no other set even comes remotely close in competency), of course everyone will use it. Even if people wanted to play another play style, they wouldn't because no one wants to deliberately gimp themselves (and go play in a lower difficulty) in order to keep their preferred play style.

So I think ultimately the problem lies in not having any other build that is comparable in efficiency (aka gear design imbalance. Class imbalance, skill imbalance, gear imbalance are all symptoms of poor design and planning), so instead of "fixing" current gear, I think it would be better to offer new gears of upgrade other existing gears to make them just equally efficient (or at least roughly so) so that players can all choose the build that fits with their preferred play style and still be just as efficient as the current M6 build.

As it is currently, everyone who wants to be good, NEEDS to use M6+RoRG+TnT+Kridershot with EA+CA... What if someone don't want to use pets? Someone don't want sentry? Someone who likes rapid fire? RoV? Archon build? Any possible setup that's equally strong compare to M6? If the answer is no, then Blizzard designers really should go back and think about what's happened to this game.

11/24/2014 10:11 AMPosted by BogdanStefan
Also it seams to have -500 DEX as set bonus compared to live. Dex was a defensive and deps option for the set and all other sets also have +500 man stat. Can we please have it added to the 2 set bonus ?


Seriously, 500 DEX may seem unimportant in the midst of all the other changes being thrown out on the M6 build, but still I would like to keep my +500 DEX please.

11/24/2014 03:13 PMPosted by AlterEgo
I know the philosophy is for the DH to do actual fighting, but its so vulnerable when its not kiting, that forcing it into a more static gameplay, is just wrong.

You wanna give it 50% of the total damage? then boost its god damn toughness!!!


This, totally agree.
I dont think this change was done because of our feedback...
Don't have time to read the entire thread, so I'll just post this anyway.

I've been trying out Chakram with the new Cold rune and Spines of Seething Hatred. For me, it's a fun build, if not the best, but I really think that you should add a chill/slow effect to the rune, much like the Frost Arrow rune of EA.

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