kridershot + frostburn = dramatic difference

Demon Hunter
Hopefully no one already answered this, but awhile someone asked about polar station vs. spitfire runes. For me, I noticed that they are completely different playstyles. Spitfire kills faster, and polar helps your CC. For bounties, and low level rifts I tend to use spitfire. For higher levels, I use Polar.
An average player giving average input on what may work on live patch based off average PTR play...

yea.
12/08/2014 07:06 PMPosted by RobertsMac
An average player giving average input on what may work on live patch based off average PTR play...

yea.


^^ A person who doesnt bother to read or interpret OPs comments and provides no value whatsoever to the thread.

Yeah...
Im not sold yet that frostburns is completely useless yet. But im surprised no one has mentioned using leorics crown with a diamond for 20ish % total CDR if you use cdr on another item.

The trend right now last time i was on PTR was to pop prep punishment whenever you were out of hatred to lob out 2-3 more cluster arrows. Even getting to CDR of 25% brings sentries to 6 secs , prep to 15 and companion to 22.5. Might make a difference.

I see prides fall being too reliant on not taking any damage from the elite before you get your sentries out which doesnt always happen. But i see the benefit it would provide in situations where you got the initial attack.
The Kridershot/Frostburn combo doesn't have to be BiS. It just has to be fun. I have a Frostburn with gold find that will fit in very nicely with my gold find Krider build:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Treleth-1141/hero/50012098

The Frostburn leaves me with a 5% PDPS loss but provides a 15% bonus to cold dmg. Combine all of that with the chance to freeze on hit and I have what will continue to be a nice T6 gold/exp farming build. I'd call that a win.
: )

Edit - If this turns out to be true, then Frostburns may become quite a bit more interesting:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/15537524540
12/08/2014 02:58 AMPosted by Impreza
Trust me, theres just no way a gen-spender-gen-spender build can kill faster than a no-gen build. the Rapid fire no gen build has been there since forever. It was only until ROS release that it became obsolete. The reason why blizz is nerfing Slow-ball is that they don't want 6 year olds complaining that they can't press SS every 1.4 seconds.


12/08/2014 03:44 AMPosted by DiEoxidE
This is just flat out not true, save M6 being the outlier for the obvious. It's been shown/done twice since RoS, with Ninchakru in normal T6 runs before GR's, and with the non-M6 challenge where Nyan, who was the only other person close at 35, went pure MS arsenal with no generator while I topped off at 37 while using a generator.

While generator based builds may be a pain in the !@# to construct and pull off effectively, thus a rarity, it's not correct to say they're inferior in general, again save M6 obviously. Generators do need some QoL love though, and I mean badly as a whole, as the options for generators in generator based builds were extremely limited :/


Going back, historically look at :

1. Nubtro's DE challenge
2. Boss Kills : Azmo, Ghom, Belail, Butcher....... pre ROS never have I seen anyone kill faster than RF only build.

ROS :

1. Leaderboards
2. I could probably run a gimmick no-gen SS/Mirnea/Wreath build to clear a 35 easy....

- - -

This has nothing to do with player/skills per se... its just how the game works as it is. Players (like me) will always go to a build thats most effective, powerful for the highest content this game we play has to offer.

We make do with whatever arsenal our class has access to, unfortunately for me, generators isn't included in there. (Might change on the upcoming patch) Pretty sure you're excited like many Pew-Pew-Boom-Boom players like yourself.

Leaderboards will be wiped out eventually, I'm quite happy as to what I have accomplished this chapter. I'm looking forward to greater challenges ahead since Blizz is cutting down most gimmicky* builds.

GL : HF

ps : sorry for a bit off topic to the OP
my own take on frosties (i own a decent pair of them):
it may backfire on occaion where you don't really expect and this is QoL. m6 has 6 pieces, so if you swap anything, this brings RoRG into the equation.

now, RoRG may have it's own issues (tough to get a GG one and settling to IAS that might not do any good), it cancels out use of unity/soj combo on solo, which gives far superior perfomance and QoL to average player.
no ring can match SoJ for deeps..
no item (and even multiple) can match Unity (double with follower cant die item) on toughness part, and Unity is kick-arxe dps ring on it's own.

for highly skilled player, this is less of an issue, because skilled player prolly tries to not to get hit in the first place, but average joe (who wants to have fun) is nowhere near as good.
also, it's not a party issue, but you'll have a CC guy upfront anyway, so frosties use shrinks..
12/09/2014 02:06 PMPosted by highq
my own take on frosties (i own a decent pair of them):
it may backfire on occaion where you don't really expect and this is QoL. m6 has 6 pieces, so if you swap anything, this brings RoRG into the equation.

now, RoRG may have it's own issues (tough to get a GG one and settling to IAS that might not do any good), it cancels out use of unity/soj combo on solo, which gives far superior perfomance and QoL to average player.
no ring can match SoJ for deeps..
no item (and even multiple) can match Unity (double with follower cant die item) on toughness part, and Unity is kick-arxe dps ring on it's own.

for highly skilled player, this is less of an issue, because skilled player prolly tries to not to get hit in the first place, but average joe (who wants to have fun) is nowhere near as good.
also, it's not a party issue, but you'll have a CC guy upfront anyway, so frosties use shrinks..


I agree with you here on group use of frostburns. But it appears blizz is trying to show some love to the item, as someone posted in another thread that frostburns now procs off ANY cold attack, not just ones that chill.

This is an interesting move, because if you notice they also changed grenades to be cold damage (which have higher proc coefficient). This could make for some interesting builds I might try out.
12/09/2014 05:25 PMPosted by V1cV1per
12/09/2014 02:06 PMPosted by highq
my own take on frosties (i own a decent pair of them):
it may backfire on occaion where you don't really expect and this is QoL. m6 has 6 pieces, so if you swap anything, this brings RoRG into the equation.

now, RoRG may have it's own issues (tough to get a GG one and settling to IAS that might not do any good), it cancels out use of unity/soj combo on solo, which gives far superior perfomance and QoL to average player.
no ring can match SoJ for deeps..
no item (and even multiple) can match Unity (double with follower cant die item) on toughness part, and Unity is kick-arxe dps ring on it's own.

for highly skilled player, this is less of an issue, because skilled player prolly tries to not to get hit in the first place, but average joe (who wants to have fun) is nowhere near as good.
also, it's not a party issue, but you'll have a CC guy upfront anyway, so frosties use shrinks..


I agree with you here on group use of frostburns. But it appears blizz is trying to show some love to the item, as someone posted in another thread that frostburns now procs off ANY cold attack, not just ones that chill.

This is an interesting move, because if you notice they also changed grenades to be cold damage (which have higher proc coefficient). This could make for some interesting builds I might try out.


Yeah too bad it's not enough but whatever floats your boat dude. I'll revisit if they change something else about this glove that might make it viable for competition.
12/09/2014 12:22 PMPosted by Impreza
Going back, historically look at :

1. Nubtro's DE challenge
2. Boss Kills : Azmo, Ghom, Belail, Butcher....... pre ROS never have I seen anyone kill faster than RF only build.


I'll give you #1. Number #2 it's happened, hell check out the mp 10 butcher thread where my SCH was faster than every person that attempted RF except for yours, so yes, you have seen faster than most RF only builds. Given similar gear expense, it says a lot that you were the only one on the forums able to optimize RF enough to pull ahead of my SCH in specific scenarios other than nyan "nyaning". This is partly what made D3V fun for me personally :P

12/09/2014 12:22 PMPosted by Impreza
ROS :

1. Leaderboards
2. I could probably run a gimmick no-gen SS/Mirnea/Wreath build to clear a 35 easy....


1. You can't leave out the first half of RoS but yet include vanilla :/
2. Well why didn't you in the non-M6 challenge thread? Not like you to "let it be", and even then you'd still have to make up 2 levels to tie vs a gen based build. You slippin man :D

12/09/2014 12:22 PMPosted by Impreza
This has nothing to do with player/skills per se... its just how the game works as it is. Players (like me) will always go to a build thats most effective, powerful for the highest content this game we play has to offer.

We make do with whatever arsenal our class has access to, unfortunately for me, generators isn't included in there. (Might change on the upcoming patch) Pretty sure you're excited like many Pew-Pew-Boom-Boom players like yourself.


Of course, I'm not arguing that at all, in fact I agree with you. The only point I was making is that you made a generalized statement:

12/09/2014 12:22 PMPosted by Impreza
Trust me, theres just no way a gen-spender-gen-spender build can kill faster than a no-gen build


In which I stated isn't entirely true and gave you examples that showed gen based builds pulling ahead of non-gen based builds. I'm not saying one is better than the other, nor do I have anything against non-gen builds (non-gen builds required some form of creativity which I fully support), I was simply correcting a misconception and gave evidence showing otherwise to a stigma that really shouldn't be.

And meh about the next patch. As a previous competitive gamer, IMO I really don't see the appeal in leaderboards when blizzard is taking the casual approach and player skill isn't prioritized in a supposedly competitive environment in favor of extreme RNG and unavoidable damage mechanics. It would be one thing if leaderboards actually showed which player is better, or if there was a reward tied to it, grew a tournament scene and leaderboard ranks got you a chance to play for a sponsored competitive team in which you can show off and win some money/equipment doing it, but...... ya. Hell, I'd forgo all of that if skill was the primary component of success in D3 competition. Unfortunately, hundreds of hours farming keys in the dreadful trials and GR phishing in hopes of leaderboard worthy rifts in which the only reward is a chance at upgrading a gem just isn't really appealing to me and the next patch changes nothing about this (though i do like M6 much better in PTR, they at least did something right, too bad the game still "lacks"). There's just no market for GR players and once you get all the stars to line up and give you the best scenario for a leaderboard spot, then what? GR's are horribly inefficient for practically everything in the game in terms of farming. To each their own though I guess.

GL in your future GR en devours :P
12/09/2014 08:24 PMPosted by DiEoxidE
1. You can't leave out the first half of RoS but yet include vanilla :/
2. Well why didn't you in the non-M6 challenge thread? Not like you to "let it be", and even then you'd still have to make up 2 levels to tie vs a gen based build. You slippin man :D


1. There isn't any for of measurement when RoS as released. My Cindercoait/Magefist fire stuff was capping out on t4 if i remember correctly. However, there were a few T6 vids by AoE in the EU forums featuring Chakram and M6... i thought it was meh... Pets?? really i thought to myself. They have'nt introduced Leaderboards during this time.

There were a few vids in the US forums including a less than 10 min run featuring Harringtons and some 80's soundtracks. I thought it was awesome. If i'm correct, Nyan was doing nyan things using RapidFire, he even had his own Twitch channel back then :D

TL:DR Early Ros, there wasn't any form us measurable test due to the absence of the Leaderboards and GR levels.

2. Wait wait.... you don't have a G37 video.. or maybe I have missed it. You always mentioned 35 but never a 37... what gives? Feel free to link a G37 video.

In anycase, I'll try to farm some 35-37 keys (kinda hard.. seems the trails are a bit random at times) and see what I can come up with. Maybe you can film a G37 yourself since were all waiting for patch. I'll wait for your video.

GL : HF
12/10/2014 02:27 PMPosted by Impreza

TL:DR Early Ros, there wasn't any form us measurable test due to the absence of the Leaderboards and GR levels.


So how can you credit vanilla when there were no leaderboards nor GR levels then? That's just shooting yourself in the foot man. The measurements people used in vanilla were similar to what was adopted in RoS before leaderboards, so again you can't skip an era, otherwise it'll contradict your vanilla examples. Even if you wanted to discredit everything before GR's, it would actually hurt your point as the only challenge/example of the comparison from the DH is the non-M6 challenge in which gen specs were pulling ahead.

Sure there was the T4 wall with fire and others talked about how DH couldn't farm/survive T6, and if they could, it must be with fire and forgo a generator. I kept saying that wasn't entirely correct and when I put up the Ninchakru thread, not only was the spec not fire, but it included a generator and didn't use CA in which everyone felt was necessary. Until M6 was buffed (2.05), the standard measurement was 15 min average T6 clears (keyword average, not the one insanely lucky 1 floor compacted easy rift), for all classes, and i was putting out consistent 10 min clears and was the only player that I've been able to find on youtube who recorded multiple videos of non-cherry picked T6 rifts to prove it. It wasn't until M6 was buffed that sub 10 min runs became consistent and the norm (which i mentioned as an outlier in my previous post). Now of course, if you can find multiple vids from the same user using their same build with that average time during that era, I'd be more than happy to say I'm incorrect :P

12/10/2014 02:27 PMPosted by Impreza
2. Wait wait.... you don't have a G37 video.. or maybe I have missed it. You always mentioned 35 but never a 37... what gives? Feel free to link a G37 video.

In anycase, I'll try to farm some 35-37 keys (kinda hard.. seems the trails are a bit random at times) and see what I can come up with. Maybe you can film a G37 yourself since were all waiting for patch. I'll wait for your video.


That's correct. I didn't record the 37. It's known that I purposely fail all GR's whenever I ran any version of M6 (stated this throughout many threads) which would have put me on leaderboards. I despise the system and didn't care for M6 either, so I choose not to partake in it. The only time I chose to clear GR's in time are those that I ran non-M6 with. In my profile, it shows my highest GR clear was 37, and that happened to be the very last time I bothered with GR's and I even messaged Nyan in game when I did it. I probably should have recorded it, but it never crossed my mind as I was joking around in TS at 4 in the morning. Ah well.

Anyways. I do have recordings of 2 fire based non-M6 (33 and 34) and a physical based non-m6 (35), so keep in mind I was pretty much averaging these GR's and not a one time thing as multiple keys weren't required (though it was for the 37 in which without a conduit was definitely my limit). Besides, isn't a challenge suppose to be to beat the person that presented the highest clear, not ask the person with the highest clear to clear higher first before providing their clear? As of now, I haven't played D3 in roughly 2 months, and there's not enough interest in anything DH related outside of M6 to take the time to record a 37, however if you can top the 35 with a non-gen spec that might give me a reason to log back on again :D Reminds me of the good ol days :P

P.S. I suck at writing short responses :/
Stay tuned to this thread!

The nerf is official as of tonight -- sentries will NOT benefit from the damage bonus; they are currently not behaving correctly. Verified via blue post. Hotfix and PTR leaderboards reset inbound soon.
12/10/2014 08:31 PMPosted by V1cV1per
Stay tuned to this thread!

The nerf is official as of tonight -- sentries will NOT benefit from the damage bonus; they are currently not behaving correctly. Verified via blue post. Hotfix and PTR leaderboards reset inbound soon.


Ya I kinda took this thread off topic :( sry
lol

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