PTR 2.12 Carnevil Domination.

Witch Doctor
50% + Simple City Strength
45% Poison Fart DMG%
30% Fetish Barney

Now all benefits poison farts, the DMG basically doubled

> Jade
> Tiki / MoJ Pet by far.

The only problem is fetish leash, and walls. Extremely frustrating
Curious- what pieces do you have poison, poison dart and FA on?

I'm currently spending my shards on pants, in hopes of swamp pants with poison darts for a combowombo deal- even if it means losing Vit.
50% + Simple City Strength
45% Poison Fart DMG%
30% Fetish Barney

Now all benefits fetish farts, the DMG basically doubled

> Jade
> Tiki / MoJ Pet by far.

The only problem is fetish leash, and walls. Extremely frustrating


Yea but a bit glassy if you use all those slots on damage. I guess maybe the new leg gems and/or ancient toughness rolls might shore that up.

And you will lose a ring slot to RoRG.
12/12/2014 04:41 PMPosted by Wootytooty
Curious- what pieces do you have poison, poison dart and FA on?

I'm currently spending my shards on pants, in hopes of swamp pants with poison darts for a combowombo deal- even if it means losing Vit.


I think cains will end up better than swamps- craftable ancients, but getting gloves worth a crap will be tough.

All the same slots- just belt pants and mojo with PD, shoulders and chest FA. Going to use a MoJ so + elemental is a bit meh anyway.

Toughness will be the issue- competition there with + skill rolls and CDR on shoulders/mojo/gloves (but not really will want trifecta cains or w/e you end up using).

Also some competition in leg gems since simplicity's strength is going to be really good, and gogok, BotT, toxin, and PE are all good options, along with BoTP for T6.
I love Carni build and am excited to see the difference however the fact that my fetishes have no necks to shoot darts up stairs or over a few elevation changes ticks me off more then narrow halls or walls.
Been testing on PTR
PD% on pants, belt, mojo + lvl 30 SS =85%
FA% on Shoulders, Chest = 30%
Carnevil
Zuni-Chest, Boots, Mojo
Augs- Shoulders, Bracers
Cains- Gloves, Pants
WH
DoD
RoRG,Unity, and Hellfire Ammy

1.7 mil sheet damage and 9.9 mil toughness

Results-
On elites with BBV FA criting for 40+ mil and FS critting for 30+ mil
Now if I could just figure out how to steer the little idiots with the longer leash it'll be awesome.
Wish they would give the pre 2.1.1 shorter leash back to peeps wearing Carnevil mask.
12/12/2014 06:26 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
PD% on pants, belt, mojo + lvl 30 SS =85%
FA% on Shoulders, Chest = 30%


So the current PTR,
[ %FA ] x [ %Dart + Buff (I think simplicity gem should add here) + Debuff ]?

12/12/2014 06:26 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
Wish they would give the pre 2.1.1 shorter leash back to peeps wearing Carnevil mask.


I'm not a Dart practitioner but I frequently feel that the strength of the build lies with the flexibility to go into melee or range combat mode. To align fetishes or overcome terrain, let them close in before shooting darts (assuming not using Zei's Stone).
12/12/2014 04:46 PMPosted by Nesa
Going to use a MoJ so + elemental is a bit meh anyway.


Elemental is actually pretty big for carnevil since we are forbidden from using MoJ
@Paul.....Yeah I think(trying not to hurt myself) that FA% and PD% are in separate multipliers, but its really hard to tell with with large amount of numbers flying around.

My guess(all I got at this point) is [%PD (including SS gem)] x [%FA +Buff +Debuff]

reason for my guess is that %FA was existing and they just tacked on the %PD damage.

As far as the leash goes, its probably just a L2P problem on my part.
12/12/2014 04:46 PMPosted by Nesa
I think cains will end up better than swamps

FWIW, Cain's are virtually always better than Swamps. I asked Paul to Math It Out for me a while back and we concluded that you just can't beat that 8% IAS. The full story can be found on this page: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/13349475072?page=6#107

Though you're right that being craftable is a huge benefit to Cain's regardless. Ancient trifecta gloves with a worthwhile secondary will take tons of crafting mats, though...

Also, let's not forget the humble Fleeting Strap in our rush to reroll a bunch of Witching Hours. It's craftable to perfection and can roll INT/VIT/IAS/PD. Not a bad option if you're lacking that INT/IAS/CHD/PD Witching Hour.
12/12/2014 06:46 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
My guess(all I got at this point) is [%PD (including SS gem)] x [%FA +Buff +Debuff]


The existing current patch is [FA] x [Buff + Debuff],
FA separate multiplier.
So how does PD and SS gem fit into the picture?
hmmm...if that's the case maybe %FA and %PD are grouped together. Not really sure how to test where they fit in. Any ides on how to test it?
12/12/2014 07:11 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
hmmm...if that's the case maybe %FA and %PD are grouped together. Not really sure how to test where they fit in. Any ides on how to test it?


Remove %Poison from gear. Remove %Physical from gear. Remove all PTV, BBV, MC:P, Piranhas, etc.
Allow FA to go into Physical melee mode at 180% tooltip. This way, only %FA benefits.
Start shooting darts as Poison at 130% tooltip. This way, both %FA and %PD benefit.

See if the screen damage leads to [%FA] x [%PD] or [%FA + %PD]. Don't forget to account for the different Tooltip damage.

If you confirm %PD is separate from %FA, then we need to do another test with/without PTV to see if PD groups over there. [%PD] x [Buff + Debuff], or [%PD + Buff + Debuff].

I suspect %PD will be grouped together with Buff and Debuff, to make it in line with all 6 classes [%Skill + Buff + Debuff]. %FA is more likely a "type" of Pet or follower or minion, so that multiplier was separated from the generic damage formula.
12/12/2014 07:11 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
Any ides on how to test it?

Seems like it needs Paul's legacy +min damage ring and a level 1 weapon. Run without any bonuses, then with 15% PD, then FA, then both. See how the numbers compare to the multiplicative and additive predictions. I would guess.
12/12/2014 03:54 PMPosted by CKbrah
The only problem is fetish leash, and walls. Extremely frustrating


"Something frustrating" is the staple of a Greater Rift experience!

I'm glad to see yet another build having success in GRs, and one that doesn't revolve around a 6 piece set. Witch Doctors really are setting a precedence for build variety.

I think Cain's pants can now be established as a clear-cut BiS, due to the free defense affix (armor/allres) that can be rerolled for PD%. Getting an Ancient version of them shouldn't be too difficult, as well.

It's a shame we have to sacrifice the valuable offhand slot for a boring Zuni Mojo, but that's the name of the game, I suppose.

12/12/2014 06:46 PMPosted by DoubleTwist
As far as the leash goes, its probably just a L2P problem on my part.


Fetishes aggro onto enemies quickly, so you need to have good reactions in order to maintain control and positioning. I really wish Blizzard would provide an automated way to resummon/reposition all fetishes near you when you have Carnevil/Dagger of Darts equipped.
All right....much testing later
Used lvl 1 weapon and a +9 min damage ring (found it on one of my mules followers...go figure)
This gave me a constant number to work with.

Only working with FA fetishes in this scenario

Base damage from fetish darts = 196

Damage with 15% PD from pants = 225
Damage with 12% PD from Belt = 219
Damage with 12% FA from shoulders = 219

Damage with 15% PD pants and 12% PD belt = 249 (additive)
Damage with 15% PD pants and 12% FA shoulders = 252 (multiplicative)

Damage with 15% Piranha Debuff = 225
Damage with 15% Piranha Debuff and 12% PD belt = 252 (multiplicative)
Damage with 15% Piranha Debuff and 12% FA shoulders = 252 (multiplicative)
Damage with 15% Piranha Debuff and 12% PD belt and 12% FA shoulders = 282 (multiplicative)

TLDR
From my test results %FA, %PD, and Debuffs are all separate multipliers
!@#$ yea!

Not surprised at the DPS output.
I thought the whole point of using Tiki was to improve pet survivability around GR40+.
Even if Carny improves damage, are pets surviving enough to kill mobs?

Even spamming FA with SMK it's a problem... Can't imagine the 2 minute cooldown...

At least DoD has insane drop rate. Everybody has a perfect one laying around somewhere.
Wow thats a huge buff for Carndocs :)
12/12/2014 07:58 PMPosted by smokeypoo
t's a shame we have to sacrifice the valuable offhand slot for a boring Zuni Mojo, but that's the name of the game, I suppose.

Hopefully this gets resolved if/when they give the zuni set a 6 piece bonus. Adding a glove, belt, bracer, shoulder, or even amulet component would definitely give us a ton of options.

Personally, I'd hope they add glove, which would make my nicely-rolled swamplands usable. Belt might be a good alternative to WH if it had IAS or even CHD.

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