Druin I need you!

Monk
I'm struggling to find some information, and I know you're a fairly well-organized guy and i'm hoping you can help point me to it.

I know you're amazing at testing mechanics.

Some guy was trying to do some testing, and it just isn't working out.

I'm hoping that you can point me towards an explanation of your testing methods including the need for the legacy + Min damage gear, i'd like to be able to link it for him so he can see what he's doing wrong and m\figure out how to test accurately.

Thanks in advance!
I cannot think of any situation in which + damage gear can be more beneficial than the 4 other top affixes, which are CC, CD, Socket, and Main Stat. Even with legacy gear, which caps at lvl 60, having 6 affixes you will still lack in overall main stat and +damage doesn't make up for it.
12/24/2014 09:11 AMPosted by Lightdemon
I cannot think of any situation in which + damage gear can be more beneficial than the 4 other top affixes, which are CC, CD, Socket, and Main Stat. Even with legacy gear, which caps at lvl 60, having 6 affixes you will still lack in overall main stat and +damage doesn't make up for it.


Thanks for the reply, and you're correct in thinking this.

However, i'm not looking to test average damage gear. (+min damage and + max damage affixes were removed in loot 2.0.)

I'm looking for an explanation of how Druin tests. The gist of it is he uses old legacy + min damage gear to make it so that his hits no longer have a range. For example, instead of hits that are between 5 and 10 damage, he would use the + min damage gear to make the attack always hit for 10 damage. (At least that's what I understood to be his method.)
12/24/2014 09:11 AMPosted by Lightdemon
I cannot think of any situation in which + damage gear can be more beneficial than the 4 other top affixes, which are CC, CD, Socket, and Main Stat. Even with legacy gear, which caps at lvl 60, having 6 affixes you will still lack in overall main stat and +damage doesn't make up for it.

Reading comprehension is hard.

12/24/2014 07:55 AMPosted by Mat
Some guy was trying to do some testing, and it just isn't working out.

I'm hoping that you can point me towards an explanation of your testing methods including the need for the legacy + Min damage gear, i'd like to be able to link it for him so he can see what he's doing wrong and m\figure out how to test accurately.


Google result #2 follows:

03/06/2014 09:53 AMPosted by Druin
For future use, if you want to test damage numbers, equipping jewelry that has the +minimum damage affix where the min damage affix is greater than the max-min different on your weapon will actually set your weapon to min=max and allow you to always hit for the same number with no variance.

Example:
10-20 dagger +20min damage ammy = 30-30 dagger giving consistent data.

[/quote]
12/24/2014 09:19 AMPosted by Heisenberg
Google result #2 follows:


I'm not sure if you quoted this for me or for Lightdemon.

Thanks, that's a better explanation than I provided. I assumed I needed more information for this but maybe I don't. Either way it's not a huge deal, I just wanted to be able to provide this information to some yahoo over in general who's on some "fire damage range on my weapon makes my fire skills do more damage trip."

I was hoping I could use this to teach him something, but at this point I think he might be beyond help : (
12/24/2014 09:19 AMPosted by Heisenberg
Reading comprehension is hard.


Being nice might be harder.
12/24/2014 12:31 PMPosted by Vox
12/24/2014 09:19 AMPosted by Heisenberg
Reading comprehension is hard.


Being nice might be harder.


I deserved it though :(
12/24/2014 09:26 AMPosted by Mat
Thanks, that's a better explanation than I provided. I assumed I needed more information for this but maybe I don't. Either way it's not a huge deal, I just wanted to be able to provide this information to some yahoo over in general who's on some "fire damage range on my weapon makes my fire skills do more damage trip."

I was hoping I could use this to teach him something, but at this point I think he might be beyond help : (


Well the min=max damage affix is made to eliminate the range in damage numbers such that you have an easier time to verify your test results. That way every hit for X% weapon damage will always be a constant number as a hit, and constant number as a crit.

That way if you wanted to test if Sunwuko was multiplicative or additive for example, you could punch your "hit value" in as the input and conclude one or the other.

But for the argument you seem to be in, seems like a losing battle since a basic understanding of D3 mechanics is required.
Also remember to use the "Hack" for testing proc coefficents.

Thorn damage multiplier from dex is 1 + DEX/400
12/24/2014 03:20 PMPosted by VocaloidNyan
Also remember to use the "Hack" for testing proc coefficents.

Thorn damage multiplier from dex is 1 + DEX/400


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/hack

before anyone asks! <3
Hello Mat,

I am not sure exactly what you are asking for here.

There are certainly some tools that I think are invaluable for testing such as fraps (or any good video recording software), any good video editing software, a min=max setup and a character that can be easily set up to have 0 of any given additive stat.

Using those tools and the known knowledge base in D3 I am usually able to craft an empirical test for most things.

For example, if someone were to say to me "Druin, when I use a fire damage weapon my fire skills hit 50% harder" I would go about disproving this in the following way:

> Get a fire damage weapon, equip it to a hero with relatively low stats
> Calculate the damage range given that weapon that your character has with a given fire skill
(Note: this is easier if you ignore crits and have no +min/max jewelry on)
This will give you a definite range for your attacks.
> Test this range using basic auto attacks to make sure that there is nothing wrong with your math
> Multiply those values by 50%
This will establish a floor value that you theoretically should not be able to hit for less than if fire damage on your weapon really was giving fire skills 50% more damage
> Attack stuff until you see a number below this floor

This proves that it does not give fire skills a 50% bonus. Obviously this is a very simple thing to disprove and a very complicated way to disprove it but I have used similar tests to prove things like +ele damage only affecting the black-damage portion of weapons (before they fixed it) which is much more complicated.

I guess, in the end, it really comes down to the situation! :)
Thanks a ton, I think this will work for what I need. I was a little fuzzy on some of the specifics. Your example is basically exactly the situation at hand. Thanks for the response and for using your psychic powers.

I'm so excited for the new patch and season two, i'm pretty much foaming at the mouth to main a monk again. Hopefully i'll be spending more time in the monk forums again, at some point I forgot the monk forums are the best!

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