Jailer!!!!!!!!

General Discussion
PC does not have dodge roll. Technically. there isnt a way to avoid jailer. Its dead instant and without any warning
Jailer should do what it is a Jailer not a one shot and dead. It needs to be addressed soon.
Jailer will 1 hit KO when you reach around GR 40 OP. If you are getting 1 hit KO in GR over 30 then you don't have enough toughness.
01/07/2015 07:42 AMPosted by Lollz
Sure I'm a DH, but I use bolas, so I run into the same problem in GR41, where the delay between the bolas being fired and exploding and actually dealing damage means that if I'm careless I get about 5-10 of them to explode and proc reflect damage. But if I pay attention RD is no problem.


When my DH is spec'd for Ball Lightning, there can be about 20-30 "hits" I need to plan for when RD pops back up. Those balls move so slowly. Of course, a simple SS can keep you safe while RD is up.
Glasscanon!
01/07/2015 07:42 AMPosted by Lollz
Sure the first one might catch you off guard if you're not paying attention and playing carelessly and just always attacking all the time, but if you realize a mob is reflect damage, it's fairly simple to play on the safe side and just not attack when they have reflect damage up.

Good grief! You really can't read, can you?

When you are hitting enemies with a DOT skill, if they're not reflecting damage before you start firing you don't even know they have reflect damage.* If they have reflect damage, you start firing, and then they start reflecting, you're dead. There's no way to just not fire a DOT skill after you've fired it while they don't have reflect damage up, and there's no way to stop firing after you've fired if they start reflecting damage.

That's what the guy was talking about with his Witch Doctor, and Rain of Toads.

I have exactly the same problem with Twin Chakrams.

And if you pay attention to the game as much as you pay attention to what you're reading, then you must spend most of your time dead too.

Steve Austin

PS: And no, I don't stop fighting to point at Elites and read their subtext before I attack them, so don't even suggest it. It's a stupid idea...
01/07/2015 08:08 AMPosted by HolyDiver
Jailer should jail players, not kill them. The damage shouldn't even be there.

What about the fact that if you don't die on the first hit of Jailer, Elites can Jail you once in a second for every member of the Elite pack? I've been jailed twice in one second; six times in four seconds!

That should never be able to happen.

It used to be that Jailer did no damage. It simply stopped you from moving, as it's name implies.

Frozen never used to do damage while the explosion built. The white, growing circle was introduced as a perception aid to players, to help them judge the radius of the Frozen explosion, and avoid it.

These devs have no idea why some of the abilities and mechanics in this game were built, or how they were intended to work.

Like Frozen. I can just see those idiots sitting around a table going,"Well, what does that circle do? If it doesn't do damage, and it doesn't slow the player, what is it even there for? Let's make it do some damage!"

Elites at Torment difficulties are totally out of control.

There something wrong when at any Torment level, I can run from a single Elite pack and have a continuous unbroken line of Desecrator pools following me. And if I choose to fight them, I spend most of my time evading Frozen and Thunderstorm, and Jailer, and Plagued, and Frozen Pulses, while waiting to regain control of my character after Nightmarish sends me running, and Vortex simply teleports me straight back into the former two. Thank goodness for Wormhole, which often teleports me out of trouble!

It might be interesting if these things happened occasionally, but the problem is every single member of the Elite pack can cast all of these affixes independently of all other members.

And they do.

I literally spend most of my time evading ground effects, breaking out of Jails (before I run out of resources), or repositioning around Waller walls to be able to go on the offensive for at most 2 seconds, before I am assaulted again by some unavoidable Elite affix, and I have to again reposition, breakout, or just run.

Elite packs need to play by the same rules we do when it comes to using abilities; limited resources, long cool downs, and they need rules of interaction.

Also, because of the fact that the number of members of an Elite pack can be so variable, there has to be a limit on which members can use their abilities at what times, and how many of them can use them at the same time.

Elite packs also have to be aware of each other, so that when two or three different packs hit you at the same time, they don't just overwhelm you.

The way it is now, we have an Elite monster that has unlimited resources, no cool downs, and which can spam its abilities continuously, and this Elite monster is accompanied by 2 to 6 clones that can all do the same things at the same time. And they keep doing it regardless of how many other Elite packs are near them and doing the same thing.

Makes for a slightly one-sided battle, and the only way to counter some of these affixes is to simply gear for and then ignore them. Otherwise, you'll spend most of your playtime evading them, or dead.

When you get into a (Greater) Rift, especially in the Act 5 Blood Marsh and Paths of the Drowned, and two or three different Elite packs of Anarchs and Exarchs come at you at the same time, it's nearly impossible to get in a shot. You spend so much time Stunned, or running or repositioning from Frozen, Desecrator, Plagued, Thunderstorm, Frozen Pulse, Waller, Nightmarish, Wormhole, Vortex, Jailer, and half a dozen other affixes that might be palatable if they happened occasionally, it just makes the game a frustrating experience.

This also very often prevents players from playing the character they want to play, and forces them to play a character much tankier than they might otherwise, just so they can survive the continuous spamming of all these affixes, especially the unavoidable ones.

Steve Austin
Jailer is easily avoidable. Put on an immunity amulet or stack resistance
Jailer CAN be avoided. Its difficult to do, and jailer might need to be re-tuned, but for demon hunters at least, jailer can be avoided. Jailer has a max range. Learn it. With combination of good timing, ninja skills, and a little bit of luck it can be avoided.

So how about that Frozen and Thunderstorm damage in high grifts?
I feel like the one-shot kill mechanic of it is totally fine. It forces ranged players to actually pay attention to what's going on in the fight and try to avoid said attacks.

What's not okay is the lack of a wind-up, and the lack of an avoidance mechanism.
01/07/2015 09:46 AMPosted by Tolmos
I see a lot of folks talking about unavoidable damage, and can't help but wonder... does PC have dodge roll like consoles? I played PC for a few levels a long time ago, so I can't remember if it does or not. I'm just having a hard time imagining anything being truly unavoidable if you have fast enough reflexes with dodge.

Instant damage with no projectile is not dodgeable
Reflect damage is like punching concrete. Can you dodge the pain if you're fast enough? Jailer is like walking around with a car battery on your back just waiting for some dude to switch it on; can't dodge it either.
People are confusing being able to kill stuff at GR40 with being able to kill and survive in GR40. Anyone can do GR40+ if nothing hits you. To do higher Grifts you have to find the balance between enough damage to beat the timer AND the ability to survive and not get penalized too much time. There is also the dumb luck factor of not running into the worst affixes, but playing to find easy grifts to get your name on the board denotes an entirely different set of mental issues.
i prefer Waller, nothing like it spamming on top of each other and getting buried at the bottom.
01/07/2015 10:44 PMPosted by Momo
Jailer is easily avoidable. Put on an immunity amulet or stack resistance


No item in this game should be mandatory. Stacking resistance becomes useless after a certain point. Nothing in the game should be tuned around items you may or may not even find.

01/25/2015 10:10 AMPosted by MrWindblade
I feel like the one-shot kill mechanic of it is totally fine. It forces ranged players to actually pay attention to what's going on in the fight and try to avoid said attacks.

Mortar works as you describe. It can hit like a truck, but it can be dealt with with decent repositioning skills. Jailer is simply cheap. It's incredibly sloppy design to give unavoidable damage mechanics unlimited damage scaling.
I have all res on eche typoe of armor except helm and gloves and it HITS ME THRU WALLS and does insane dmg wtf?!?

Mortar works as you describe. It can hit like a truck, but it can be dealt with with decent repositioning skills. Jailer is simply cheap. It's incredibly sloppy design to give unavoidable damage mechanics unlimited damage scaling.


Precisely why I've always felt that mortar was an acceptable dangerous affix - it warns the player where death will come, and it's up to the player to move. In this way, the player chooses whether or not they will die. That's the right kind of difficulty, and we should have more of it.

I always felt that Jailer would be better served as a "moving cage" on a flight path similar to an un-runed Chakram or even as a move like the Butcher's chain grab.

I don't think it's acceptable for it to simply "happen" to players.
Actually, I tried the "Stack Resistance" Argument. I managed to get my arcane resistance to 86.15% +36.31% (This equals 112.46%), which means Jailer should not be able to hurt me at all, right?

WRONG.

Jailer STILL one shots me when I am in any greater rift above 40. Now I have to ask the Devs, what did you do?

Because this fact means that either:

A. the devs decided resistance should not actually correspond directly to a player's resistance,

B. each ability a mob uses has a separate, non-elemental application of the same damage, but hidden, and that is what is killing me, or

C. the devs set a cap for resistance of greater rift mob abilities, after which the ability simply cannot be resisted, or lastly,

D. That the mobs in greater rifts above 40 are actually much higher in their actual level than we players are, and their abilities ignore our resistances as a result.

All of these options are bad, in that they destroy any options we as players have to involve counterplay. We can't react to an instant ability, and without wearing one specific piece of gear we will always be one shot by it without warning or chance to respond. And these mobs will use it again AS SOON AS WE RESPAWN. That is terrible design. And it needs to be fixed.
04/28/2015 04:50 PMPosted by Ziarthis
Actually, I tried the "Stack Resistance" Argument. I managed to get my arcane resistance to 86.15% +36.31% (This equals 112.46%), which means Jailer should not be able to hurt me at all, right?


Actually, I do not believe that is the way it works. My understanding is the plus is after the initial 86.15%. so deduct the 86.51 then deduct the 36.31 from the remainder.

At least that is my understanding.
Necro from January.

Make a new thread so people won't start off by reading old news that is obsolete or otherwise no longer relevant.

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