We've voiced why we quit; How is Blizzard fixing it?

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Listen man, just one last burning question I want answered, how many Devs are still working on this game? It doesn't get nearly the support PoE gets, so many known issues so few hotfixes, are they understaffed now?

It just seems like over the last several months they could have made a lot of great items, instead it's crickets...
That above all else is what bothers me the most.

Thanks for all your hard work Droth, much respect.
12/23/2014 09:18 PMPosted by Zyron
Listen man, just one last burning question I want answered, how many Devs are still working on this game? It doesn't get nearly the support PoE gets, so many known issues so few hotfixes, are they understaffed now?

I don't have an answer for you as I don't work for Blizzard and it is unlikely that I'll work for Blizzard any time in the future.

I do know that all of the devs I know of still work on the game. As I said, a lot of the development time is probably tied up in trying to determine the correct solutions without making the game worse.

12/23/2014 09:18 PMPosted by Zyron
Thanks for all your hard work Droth, much respect.

No problem. I'm just trying to help the community voice their concerns in a calm and collected fashion. Everyone's voice deserves to be heard, even if I personally do not like their stance. There are many of these points that I'm neutral on, many I'm for, and many I'm staunchly against. (Trading being one of the major complaints I'm against) That said though, I still believe people are entitled to their own opinions and I will gladly give them a platform on which to speak.
Unfortunately devs wont fix anything, if the last PTR has shown us, the feedbacks are of little importance to them on the changes that need to made in the game. Id love to be the optimist and say that they will finally come to their senses and LISTEN to all the great ideas presented in this forum.
12/23/2014 09:18 PMPosted by Zyron
Listen man, just one last burning question I want answered, how many Devs are still working on this game? It doesn't get nearly the support PoE gets, so many known issues so few hotfixes, are they understaffed now?

It just seems like over the last several months they could have made a lot of great items, instead it's crickets...
That above all else is what bothers me the most.

Thanks for all your hard work Droth, much respect.


I actually agree with that.

I downloaded a patch for poe not long ago and there was more new content added in that one patch than blizz has added to d3 since its release. it is mind blowing to say the least.
12/23/2014 09:17 PMPosted by Happybot
If you are going to place items in the game that once worked together, just to Nerf the way they work at a later date, at least update the "freaking-secondary-text", or create replacement items "for-these-items-you-don't-want-working-together."

Warzechian Armguards:

Secondary Every time you destroy a wreckable object, you gain a short burst of speed.

Firewalkers:

Burn the ground you walk on.

When you run over a breakable with these boots; it doesn't give you a run speed boost; when the bracer is equipped; it use to; what the hell?

Fix the text on the items, make some kind of new items up, "if you don't like people moving around faster than your mythical knights'."


I'll plus one this.As someone who doesn't play the game by using the ultimate build/class,combos like mentioned are/were a boon.

12/23/2014 09:18 PMPosted by Zyron
Listen man, just one last burning question I want answered, how many Devs are still working on this game? It doesn't get nearly the support PoE gets, so many known issues so few hotfixes, are they understaffed now?

It just seems like over the last several months they could have made a lot of great items, instead it's crickets...
That above all else is what bothers me the most.

Thanks for all your hard work Droth, much respect.


Sorry,you're trying to compare two vastly different sized companys that have conflicting gaming ideologies and have a huge discrepency in the number of titles/IPs being actively serviced and developed and also make use of two completely different business models for funding their games.

Let's not go there and focus on D3 rather than ... anything else on the market.

=)
Pretty cool post from OP. From all of it, the limitation of difficulty outside GRs and GRs and rifts being the only rewarding and playable endgame content, is my biggest issue with the game. I much prefer bounties, killing bosses and free roam. I like cursed chests, chasing goblins, cursed shrines and random events. These are limited in rifts and non-existent in GRs. GRs in particular are lack luster, as gear drop is weak no gold nothing; highly streamlined and boring, not to mention sitting behind even much less interesting trials.

I wish the devs team would put some effort to make the D3 world, which is everything outside rifts, playable. If you are highly geared you will be killing elites in 3 secs and ignore most if not all affixes. Within 5 minutes I feel I am about to pass out.

Simple solution is to add more difficulty levels. No additional xp or gold reward. Increased chance in ancient gear and challenge will be more than enough.
12/23/2014 06:10 PMPosted by Drothvader
WoW is a game that shows that you can in fact combine guaranteed rewards (Via quests and other means) with random rewards (Such as the rewards found in raids)


D2 ALSO shows that you can combine guaranteed rewards with random rewards, and if I am not mistaken did so BEFORE there was a WOW!
12/23/2014 09:37 PMPosted by OttO
I wish the devs team would put some effort to make the D3 world, which is everything outside rifts, playable. If you are highly geared you will be killing elites in 3 secs and ignore most if not all affixes. Within 5 minutes I feel I am about to pass out.

Simple solution is to add more difficulty levels. No additional xp or gold reward. Increased chance in ancient gear and challenge will be more than enough.


The problem you're having is caused by two things. First, it's the fact that there is infiniately scalar content in the game directly alongside non-scaler (finite difficulty) content and they both exist in the same game mode and are not separated from each other in any way whatsoever other than their scaling mechanics and how you enter the content (free roam vs. instanced). Second, the items are designed with greater rifts in mind, not the now seemingly obsolete Normal through Torment difficulty tiers.

The developers cannot continually add difficulty tiers without confusing the players after a certain point. While it's physically possible to add infinite difficulty tiers in the outer world, from both a development and user interface perspective it just isn't feasible. It works in the instanced content because currently that does not require any real UI interaction other than "place stone, open portal, kick !@# and take names".

It gets a lot more complicated when making the difficulty scale in the non-instanced game world, especially where multiple players in the same game are concerned. How do you deal with scaling when you have potentially four players, each with differing skill, item, and content progression levels? Lowest common denominator? That wouldn't make the masochists happy. Average of the difficulties cleared by the players? Same deal, and the lower end spectrum of players in the game suffer unwanted stress trying to keep up with the higher geared players. User selectable? Who gets to decide? Lottery? The player with the highest average item level?

It's much more of a mess than you realize brining together scalar and non-scalar content. The reality here is that the developers view the finite difficulty tiers as stepping stones into the infinitely scalar content. The byproduct of a design with such a narrow vision is that you end up with only one real path to endgame and once you're reach that endgame there really isn't all that much to do that you haven't done before. Unfortunately the developers are stuck between a rock and a hard place because the players are so divided on what they want, be it challenging content or things to do. The most vocal of the bunch are the players that get bored not because they've played past the content, but because they consumed the content. They are in such a rush to get past it all that when they do, they find they have nothing more to do. It's impossible to develop content faster than players can consume it, and just as impossible to develop consistently varied content on a regular basis to satisfy those that consume said content. In that regard, the developers are stuck in a digital Kobayashi Maru, neither able to please the consumers nor please those that actually have lives to live.
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12/23/2014 10:09 PMPosted by TheTias
The most vocal of the bunch are the players that get bored not because they've played past the content, but because they consumed the content. They are in such a rush to get past it all that when they do, they find they have nothing more to do. It's impossible to develop content faster than players can consume it, and just as impossible to develop consistently varied content on a regular basis to satisfy those that consume said content. In that regard, the developers are stuck in a digital Kobayashi Maru, neither able to please the consumers nor please those that actually have lives to live.

Bingo.

So what's the solution? Reprogram the Greater Rifts so that they drop their shields and you can blow them up.
Of course they can't keep on adding more difficulties... They keep power creeping >_>

One day, perhaps, they will realize that an upgrade does not only constitute of green numbers. Interesting Legendary Affixes would do the trick... oh wait, they are too focused on set items.

Ignore what I just said :(
12/23/2014 03:44 PMPosted by Drothvader


Without further ado, here is a list of the most common complaints being issued by the community.

  • Build Diversity is severely limited; Skill are too imbalanced.
  • The Item Hunt is very limited in scope to just a select few items that players can find.
  • The game is too heavily focused on Set Items.
  • Character progression is too heavily focused on randomness without any character development.
  • No structured reward system; No way to guarantee rewards.
  • All you can do at endgame is just rift and nothing else.
  • Fun items get nerfed way too often when it takes ages to find them.
  • Trials are too tedious and need removed.
  • Absurdly rare Legendary items can still roll as garbage.
  • Unavoidable damage is too harsh on players.
  • Overall gameplay is severely repetitive; Lacks challenge.
  • Season 1 was entirely way too long.
  • RNG is the largest factor in determining Leaderboard Placement.
  • Stash Space is too limited.
  • Itemization is too imbalanced (CHC / CHD still too strong comparatively)
  • Crafted Items aren't powerful enough compared to what can drop in game.
  • To much time passes between upgrades.
  • Paragon doesn't contribute much if anything at all to character progression.
  • Too much time between development patches.
  • There's no PvP.
  • There's no Trading.

This may not be EVERY complaint out there, but it's a very healthy chunk of the more common complaints.

[/quote]

I take issue with the premise of this post: "here is a list of the most common complaints being issued by the community."

These complaints are NOT those of "the community" but rather a small subset thereof. I struggle to see how those that have quit are truly representative of anything but quitters.

Let me head off the inevitable argument that some troll will take: I am not being a fanboy. The game could do with improvements in a number of areas but despite those shortcomings I still enjoy playing it and have done so since release. I thus represent a different subset of the community and I shall post my thoughts to provide some balance.

Build diversity could be greater but it really depends on what you mean. No matter what Blizzard do there will always be that one setup that is able to push further than any others. That fact is not evidence of a lack of build diversity. In any event they are adding new sets, buffing old sets, giving powers to every legendary. It just takes time. Be patient (ofc I recognise the futility of saying to those that quit "be patient" but it is what it is).

Limited item hunt This too is a relative matter. To those that are seeking to push the envelope there will always be a few items that are the best and are sought after. In any event, they are making new items etc etc

Character development is just another way of saying adding skill trees. I have played all Diablo games and I am OK without having to mess with skill trees. This isn't going to change. Adding skill trees would require a complete rebuild of the game. Won't happen. Get over it.

Too much focus on set items is really a complaint that the set items are too good. Even so, I do not see how that is a problem. I see it as a welcome feature.

No structured reward system. I guess this is another way of saying too much RNG. I agree with that at least to a point. Blizz might argue that Hellfire Amulet/Ring is an example of a structured reward system. I would say that it is although not a very good one. It needs tweaking. Kadala might be another example, but it too needs tweaking. IMO you should be able to target the specific weapon type and not just 1H or 2H.

Endgame is only Rifts This is a myopic argument with an element of spoiled brat. You do know that you can still do what we did in vanilla? You can also do bounties. That said, bounties need buffing though. (The leg drop rate in rifts needs to be mirrored in the world outside of rifts. There should be a reward fro completing all Act bounties which should scale with difficulty.) My point is that we now have more to do than we did in vanilla and yet people still complain. No matter what Blizz do people will complain. There does come a point in time when you are done with a game. How long it takes to reach that point will differ for each individual. Blizzard do not have a duty to provide endless play for years and years. I have had over 4000 hours playtime over two accounts. If you have had even a tenth of that you have received your money's worth IMO.

Fun items get nerfed way too often when it takes ages to find them I think that is garbage. Bugged items get fixed. Overpowered items get toned down. Both are as it should be. This argument is closely related to the one often spewed on these forums that Blizzard nerf everything that is fun. The stupidity of that statement is patent. A gaming company that is anti-fun...yeah that makes perfect sense.

Trials are too tedious and need to be removed I agree. Or at least have them drop multiple keys to reduce the frequency of having to do them.

Absurdly rare Legendary items can still roll as garbage In 2.1.2 they will not be so rare. That said, I agree that the rolls should be tighter, or maybe enchanting can be given an additional function: reroll the item completely. I think that would have to be way more expensive, like 100 souls but it could help reduce the effects of RNG in this game.

Unavoidable damage is too harsh on players. I tend to agree. I do not find unavoidable damage to be that much fun.

Overall gameplay is severely repetitive; Lacks challenge. Disagree. For the type of game it is the gameplay is near spot on IMO.

Season 1 was entirely way too long. Agreed. There needs to be a reason to play seasons beyond getting first dibs on new items and transmogs. Seasons are rather uninspired IMO.

Stash Space is too limited Agreed. It is a real PITA for me who plays HC on most of the classes.

Too much time passes between upgrades That will ALWAYS be the case once you have geared up a lot. There is no way to avoid that. This is a non-complaint. Ironically, the one thing Blizzard have done to provide an upgrade route for those with BiS (ie Ancients) is also subject of (in my view) idiotic complaint.

Paragon doesn't contribute much if anything at all to character progression. I disagree. It does at least until you hit 600 and thereafter it is rather meh, but that is just another example of the necessary slowing down that occurs as you rise to the top.

Too much time between development patches. I feel that too but that is more a product of inpatience. Blizz have always been slow with patches but they continue to pump them out for a long time.

There's no PvP I do not care. PvP in Diablo and Diablo 2 was glorified griefing. Good riddance IMO.

There's no Trading. Good. This is not a marketplace game. It is kill monsters and find stuff game. I think the game is much better for there being no trading. That said, I would not be against some limited form of trading, like BoE instead of BoA but it is not a big issue for me.
12/23/2014 10:23 PMPosted by BigGuns
I take issue with the premise of this post: "here is a list of the most common complaints being issued by the community."

These complaints are NOT those of "the community" but rather a small subset thereof. I struggle to see how those that have quit are truly representative of anything but quitters.

These are issues that have been mentioned by those who took the time to post in my other thread.

In other words, the members of the community that actively participated in the discussion that I started last week.

I'm pretty sure I made that clear when I said I read through all of the reasons people quit in that thread, and those are the reasons those people quit.

On a side note, thank you for taking the time to voice your stance. Keep in mind not all of these complaints are mine. For instance, I don't want trading back. Ever. However, I have listed it here because it's a reason why people have quit. If they know that Trading is a deal breaker for them and they see that Blizzard has no intentions of bringing it back, then they can know that their return is unlikely.

Remember, this thread is a response to another thread that I had made.
just waiting on the new patch and this season to finally end with little desire to play when the ancient gear will replace it all soon.
12/23/2014 09:37 PMPosted by OttO
I much prefer bounties, killing bosses and free roam.


me too...... it's impossible at rifts/GR to choose the mobs being fought....... making the fighting horrible sometimes, if you have an anti-ranged build but there are only close combat enemies or vice versa..... free roam doesn't have this issue.

so i'm wondering, would it possible to limit the rifts/GR mobs to the act the rift has been opened in?
12/23/2014 08:39 PMPosted by Drothvader
Ohai Shrew.


Hello forum Nemesis. I would extend my "Season's Greeting's", but its boa. >:O

You want this game to be all about killing monsters and finding loot. Then how bout giving us cool loot for once. An extra 127 exp for each monster killed? My hearts a flutter, I can barely contain my excitement.
12/23/2014 10:51 PMPosted by Shrew
Hello forum Nemesis. I would extend my "Season's Greeting's", but its boa. >:O

Lies! I have no Nemesis. Not even DeadRU. =D

(And we can break the BoA rules just this once)

12/23/2014 10:51 PMPosted by Shrew
You want this game to be all about killing monsters and finding loot. Then how bout giving us cool loot for once. An extra 127 exp for each monster killed? My hearts a flutter, I can barely contain my excitement.

I know this was dripping with sarcasm, but I agree. 127 Monster XP isn't a really good affix.

Honestly, I wish they'd just scrap the whole 4/2 thing because it's still apparent that nobody cares about Secondary affixes.
12/23/2014 10:59 PMPosted by Drothvader
I know this was dripping with sarcasm, but I agree. 127 Monster XP isn't a really good affix.


You know I'm starting to believe they aim so much of this stuff at noobs because they just don't know how to deal with the serious players. They don't play the game enough to know what's really going on at the higher levels.
12/23/2014 10:27 PMPosted by Drothvader
12/23/2014 10:23 PMPosted by BigGuns
I take issue with the premise of this post: "here is a list of the most common complaints being issued by the community."

These complaints are NOT those of "the community" but rather a small subset thereof. I struggle to see how those that have quit are truly representative of anything but quitters.

These are issues that have been mentioned by those who took the time to post in my other thread.

In other words, the members of the community that actively participated in the discussion that I started last week.

I'm pretty sure I made that clear when I said I read through all of the reasons people quit in that thread, and those are the reasons those people quit.

On a side note, thank you for taking the time to voice your stance. Keep in mind not all of these complaints are mine. For instance, I don't want trading back. Ever. However, I have listed it here because it's a reason why people have quit. If they know that Trading is a deal breaker for them and they see that Blizzard has no intentions of bringing it back, then they can know that their return is unlikely.

Remember, this thread is a response to another thread that I had made.


I am fully aware of that. I read a good chunk of that previous thread. My opening point was simply that it is but a small part of the community. You would appear to agree. Indeed the posters on these forums represent a small part of the community.

I too wish they would do away with the 4/2 dichotomy. The +monster xp is getting a bit of a buff (emphasis on "bit") in the next patch as I understand it as it will get a multiplier for higher difficulties. It should just be a +% to XP affix and be done with it.

The game has evolved a long way from what it once was. It still has a ways to go but I believe the devs are passionate about it and we will get there in the end. I do not think that Blizz gets enough (or any, for that matter) credit for the huge improvements they have made to the game. For those that find that this is not the game for them despite how much they wanted it to be, I say, move on. Or should I too quote Disney and say..."Let it go"? :)
12/23/2014 11:39 PMPosted by BigGuns
The game has evolved a long way from what it once was. It still has a ways to go but I believe the devs are passionate about it and we will get there in the end. I do not think that Blizz gets enough (or any, for that matter) credit for the huge improvements they have made to the game. For those that find that this is not the game for them despite how much they wanted it to be, I say, move on. Or should I too quote Disney and say..."Let it go"? :)

I'm fine with the game for the most part. I just hate the weighting that they use. (Weighting for stats and weighting for item drops)

They're addressing this next patch so I'm going to test it again. I just know that if it gets to a point where I'm looking for 1 - 2 very specific items and I'm not even close to my maximum potential then I'm going to end up quitting again.
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