Everyday losing more and more respect for this dev team

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01/06/2015 04:03 PMPosted by CrniVuk
01/06/2015 02:59 PMPosted by Mochan
Diablo 3 from the groundup was designed as an MMO and not an ARPG

with just 4 players per game? And with a new situation where it is also closer to some single player game with coop thrown in when they removed the auction house.

I dont know. Nothing on D3 is in my oppinion massive.


It's not really about the persistent world for everyone to share, but about underlying mechanics and design decisions that are better suited for that kind of experience. In MMOs you usually optimize a lot, because you need to fill in a specific role the best you can in order to earn a spot within a relatively stable group coursing through subsequent tiers of content updates. Towards accomplishing that objective, thorough optimization makes a lot of sense. However, ARPGs aren't about accounting to a group. In fact, multiplayer is optional, and many of us happen to casually approach multiplayer environments. Diversity should be the first priority in this kind of game.

MMOs aren't funded on thorough experimentation past picking X or Y class, while ARPGs consistently encourage it through relatively more complex tool kits to expand your character, yet the very core of the current iteration of the game consistently defeats that ideal by forcing thorough optimization through an extremely accentuated contrast in power output that makes experimentation extremely disappointing. This is why I've been arguing that the current endgame set layout is a bad design decision from an ARPG standpoint.

Ideally, in ARPGs the boundaries between builds tend to be a lot blurrier. You shouldn't be able to establish a 100%+ better way to do things, yet D3 tacitly imposes this methodology through vastly superior setups, usually featuring massively overpowered set items in most cases, while creative alternatives get completely overshadowed, diminishing the fun they're able to deliver. It's alright to have power fluctuations across builds, and it's pretty much impossible to achieve perfect balance, but when there's one vastly superior build, that's a clear indicator there's something very wrong with the game.

I mean, what's the point of having such a flexible skill system if you're going to negate it through sheer rigidness and lack of relatively balanced alternatives? When you have so much reliance on gear alone, the least you'd expect is exceptional gear diversity to echo the skill system's flexibility, yet we see quite the contrary on the current design, through the so-called endgame sets, more specifically, their 6p bonuses which often happen to trivialize everything else, just like they do in WoW, where everything under the current tier gear is pretty much worthless garbage.
01/06/2015 08:58 PMPosted by Blashyrkh
but when there's one vastly superior build, that's a clear indicator there's something very wrong with the game.


This.

Game is to one dimensional.
The only flaw I see about the new loot system is that we may have to farm for X many hours to get the item we want, that could take up to only 20, or maybe 500 hours.
01/06/2015 08:15 PMPosted by Mochan
01/06/2015 04:03 PMPosted by CrniVuk
...
with just 4 players per game? And with a new situation where it is also closer to some single player game with coop thrown in when they removed the auction house.

I dont know. Nothing on D3 is in my oppinion massive.


It was designed with MMO concepts... but ultimately they had to make it as similar to the old Diablo as possible. That's why I said Diablo 3 is a mishmash of MMO and ARPG and fails to be either with any level of proficiency.

A lot of the bad design decisions that went into Diablo's design are MMO concepts.

* Always Online Only - a completely MMO concept
* RMAH - was designed to be the "microtransactions" of Diablo 3
* Focus on TRADING - Jay Wilson said that Diablo 3 is a game about trading. There's a quote about him saying so back in 2009. Of course this was to support the RMAH and the microtransactions
* Gating - a lot of gating occurs in Diablo 3, usually it's layers upon layers of RNG. Time Gating is a staple MMO feature because it either a.) makes people impatient and cause them to cave in to micro transactions or b.) keeps them artificially playing longer because they can't finish what they were doing in one day, they have to do it over a month. Diablo 3's design uses extremely rare overpowered drops that everyone needs as a means of gating, layers upon layers of RNG like Hellfire Amulet, Crafting, Enchanting, etc. in order to keep people playing. Back when we still had auction house, it even catered to a.) by making the game almost impossible to beat without buying items from the AH that you would have to cave in to purchase gear.

Yeah, that's the short of it. Diablo 3 is an ARPG designed ground up with MMO concepts.


Nothing of this really says MMO in my opinion. Always online is a concept of many games today, it is not exclusively tied to MMOs, albeit I will give you that, pretty much all MMOs require it, for obvious reasons. But again, it is not something exclusively tied to MMOs.

The RMAH was a pay2win concept. This is maybe the only MMOish aspect D3 had so far. And it was removed. But even here you could argue the GAH/RMAH was just a much simpler form of D2s item selling third party websites. But let us say, that yeah, it was some MMO element, because some MMOs have similar concepts.

Trading or the focus on trading made sense in my opinion though, considering the fact that trading was a part of D2 as well, and not only D2. The fact how the gameplay was tailored to much for this in D3 was and STILL is a big problem. But how much was this inspired by MMOs? We have no clue. No one of us knows the design documents behind D3. So all we have are the developers and their words.

The randomness in D3 is ridiculous and it is also true for RoS. But again, randomness is not exclusively tied to MMOs. Many games contained randomness. Either with level design, loot or the combat. Long before World of Warcraft became popular.

I do agree that D3 might have been inspired in some sense by MMOs, many of Blizzards D3 developers worked on World of Warcraft I think and it shows. But D3 is still very far from MMOs in my opinion. The word MMO is used to often, not just with D3. For me the word massive multiplayer still means that it has to be TRULLY massive. Not 4 players in one game.

I agree with your criticism, I just dont think that it was all that much inspired by MMOS, but simply Blizzard trying to squeze out as much money from D3 as possible.
Agree Kyrone.

Nice Post, thanks.
+1 to OP

I'm surprised nobody mentioned PVP. maybe because the post gets deleted when they do...

I'm losing respect for them as well. I agree with everyone else that ancients is just a way to stick a finger at everyone who worked farmed hard for their gear. They don't have any new content. The patch named "ROS" did a nice start with rifts and bounties. Grifts is a fail imo because people rarely do it.

How about start working on PVP or fixing the lag that has been out in multiplayer games (especially 4 players) since launch. Sometimes I wonder if they aren't working on PVP because the game would lag. Players will make "zFPS" builds and whoever gets lagged the most loses.
Progression
people were complaining about the statrange, that the item shouldn't have a large stat range..... but, in an item-progression game stat-range = progression, so when they changed

d3v > stats-range 1-300 (300 progression rolls) to
2.0/RoS > stats-range 400-500 (100 progression rolls)

they simply reduced the progression by 66%, but now the poeple are like "there's no progression q.q".... well of course there's no progression anymore, you did want it to be removed and Blizzard removed it...... but that's not fine either?
Well they are introducing ancients in the next patch....but 33% of d3vs progression + 30% additional progression is 42,9% of d3vs progression...... so the progression is still reduced by 57,1% compared to d3v........

d3v > 4 to 6 affixes
2.0/RoS > 4/2 Affixes

when it comes to the amount of affixes, all progression has been removed......

RNG

Community: "there's too much RNG"..... RNG = progression (via statrange).... so changing from RNG to fixed stats will obliterate the last remaining bit of progression...... then the community will q.q even more about not having any progress.....

Trading
Community: "remove trading"...... that's the most stupid thing that can be done in a RNG/Item-based game with the RNG there's a chance that one gets only bad items... with trading the player had the chance to fix this issue by trading items he doesn't need for items that help him progress..... a way that fixed the nature of RNG a bit has been removed.... leaving more people (those who primarly get min rolls) q.qing

BoA may have fixed the 3rd party sites issue but it removed the player-based RNG and progression fix as well......

Build diversity

back at D3V i could play almost all possible builds..... some builds are totally offensive builds ( ranged)..... one was fine with 4 primary affix rolls because one doesn't need defensive rolls...... and there are builds which require offense and defense at the time (close combat builds)..... how are the close combat builds supposed to be played when there are 3 options: either offense (being onehit) or defense (taking forever to kill the mob) or not enough offense combined with not enough defense (still dying and it takes forever to kill the mob)?

4/2, besides being bad for progression, is also very bad when it comes to build diversity.......

the community hasn't figured yet how this game is designed and how it works and at the same times demands changes without even thinking about the consequenses of those changes...
by this the community turned a game that worked (progression, RNG, build diversity) into that doesn't work at all...... the changes doesn't fit to the games design.......

conclusion: the devs aren't the problem.... the community is......

Edit: another bad thing about the community is, it's unable to reflect and it is unwilling to admit that it demanded some bad changes

@Blizzard:
when d3 has been released you offered a refund to people whoms expectation weren't met.... but why didn't you offer a refund to the people, who were satisfied with the game, when you turned this game into total crap (2.0)?


But that enhances the opinion I already got when seeing Josh, Wyatt and Travis talk about this game. Josh shows fake enthusiasm and speeks about "awesome loot" in every 2nd sentence...all I could think was "Sorry Josh, the loot system is pathetic, itemization is aggravating and 90% of all items are nowhere close to awesome."

.


This. I've stopped watching anything he's involved in now, I find him extremely condescending and annoying.
01/05/2015 01:44 PMPosted by Kyrone
And Blizzard in general, if that is even possible after all the insane fails they did with this game.

You have a franchise with millions of fans around the world and handle it the worst possible way.

Updates with minor changes nobody asked for, while ignoring the real and valid feedback, all every 3 months.

No communication, nobody knows what is going on, but at this point I think not even the dev team has a clue what is going on either.

Patch 2.1.2 was supposed to ship mid December but then you realized that the devs will be on holidays if major bugs had to be fixed?

Sad enough that you lack developers confident enough in their skills to not mess everything up every patch, but are you telling me a company like Blizzard can't even set up a proper timetable and you didn't realize that Christmas is around the corner? Very professional.

But that enhances the opinion I already got when seeing Josh, Wyatt and Travis talk about this game. Josh shows fake enthusiasm and speeks about "awesome loot" in every 2nd sentence...all I could think was "Sorry Josh, the loot system is pathetic, itemization is aggravating and 90% of all items are nowhere close to awesome."

Travis seems like he could fall asleep every second when he speaks about D3. No passion at all.

And Wyatt...oh man, I have never seen another developer so out of touch with his own game. But sure, it's nice finishing a GR level 18. Prime example why the game is failing and dying now. Devs don't play their own game and don't listen to the hardcore players who do.

Also, why we even have community managers at this point is beyond me. All they do is post on ridiculously silly posts every now and then. The highly rated posts never get any attention, everything is ignored.

What I can simply not understand is why you are wasting the potential of such a great franchise. If the lack of revenue is the problem, simply add microtransactions.

More stash space.
More character slots.
Unique transmogs.
Unique pets.
Small xp/leg droprate buffs for a limited amount of time.

You have so many fans who would pay for that, and this would allow you to put more resources into developing actual content. If that is not a win/win situation then I don't know what is.

Step your game up Blizzard, your reputation is going down the hill.


Please take in mind that good games have a 2-3 year attention span. Blizzard was, and I'm only speculating, drawing out a bigger and better project during the development of ROS. That's what game developers do. They start thinking more stuff up for the next round! Maybe another bigger and more badass expansion? Maybe Diablo 4? Give these guys a break brother.
01/05/2015 01:44 PMPosted by Kyrone


What I can simply not understand is why you are wasting the potential of such a great franchise. If the lack of revenue is the problem, simply add microtransactions.

More stash space.
More character slots.
Unique transmogs.
Unique pets.
Small xp/leg droprate buffs for a limited amount of time.

[/quote]

I agree with your post's criticism, but what you suggest solves little:

MIcrotransactions: HELL NO!!!

More stash and char slots: current is enough for me, but I don't mind if they raise it. Its not a big thing, but if many players need it, then why not.

Unique transmog: whatever

unique pets: Thats a good idea but I think it would need a lot of developement and testing to get it right. So far D3 isn't famous for implementing well tested changes...

small buffs: holiday xp buff was nice, its still a small gesture.

What you haven't mentioned:

Whole Kadala gambling system is frustrating, especially with the low bloodshard cap. All items should be 25, cap should be 1000, and more categories for weapons not just 1h or 2h.

Complete lack of trading, while trading was always an important part of Diablo.

Mandatory 6p sets and lack of build diversity. Thats the big thing. And the lack of real PVP ofc
true and sad story bro
01/07/2015 02:34 AMPosted by zorroaster
01/05/2015 01:44 PMPosted by Kyrone


What I can simply not understand is why you are wasting the potential of such a great franchise. If the lack of revenue is the problem, simply add microtransactions.

More stash space.
More character slots.
Unique transmogs.
Unique pets.
Small xp/leg droprate buffs for a limited amount of time.



I agree with your post's criticism, but what you suggest solves little:

MIcrotransactions: HELL NO!!!

More stash and char slots: current is enough for me, but I don't mind if they raise it. Its not a big thing, but if many players need it, then why not.

Unique transmog: whatever

unique pets: Thats a good idea but I think it would need a lot of developement and testing to get it right. So far D3 isn't famous for implementing well tested changes...

small buffs: holiday xp buff was nice, its still a small gesture.

What you haven't mentioned:

Whole Kadala gambling system is frustrating, especially with the low bloodshard cap. All items should be 25, cap should be 1000, and more categories for weapons not just 1h or 2h.

Complete lack of trading, while trading was always an important part of Diablo.

Mandatory 6p sets and lack of build diversity. Thats the big thing. And the lack of real PVP ofc[/quote]

Just crying "HELL NO" without any reasonable argument against it doesn't help your point much...

About the shards we can agree though:

12/21/2014 12:04 PMPosted by Kyrone
Gambling amulets and weapons just isn't worth it imo, considering you barely ever get a legendary from them and if you do, it is most likely ending up as a forgotten soul, either because it is useless by default or rolls horribly bad.

Gambling weapons is fine for Demon Hunters, as they get only 2H bows and xbows, but all other classes suffer from the huge pool of crappy legendaries in the weapon slots.

25 shards per item would feel more appropriate and provide the intent the devs had with gambling: a way to obtain desired items and counteract RNG to an extent.


I wasn't counting up the flaws the game currently has, it has been done so often already, it's not like anyone at Blizzard seems to understand them or care enough to fix them anyways.
Hi there ! I think that Blizzard should look what David Brevik is doing whit Marvel Heroes! they put so much enfort on the game! like new content, raids, events, runewords, should i continue?! And its a f2p game! So why i should install D3 again when theres nothing to do? Rifts are not the answer! sure its cool and it works, but you guys definitely need to put more enfort to the game! a company like blizzard should have more imagination when it comes to that!I wont leave Marvel Heroes thats for sure! not until you find a solution to make me back again! I remenber Jay wilson words and we definitely see who is the losser now! So Blizzard put your hand on your consciousness be humble and learn something whit your competicion!
01/07/2015 03:40 AMPosted by MaginBeans
So why i should install D3 again when theres nothing to do?


then go and play Marvel Heroes......
no wonder why i stopped at 360ish Paragon.
01/07/2015 03:40 AMPosted by MaginBeans
Hi there ! I think that Blizzard should look what David Brevik is doing whit Marvel Heroes! they put so much enfort on the game! like new content, raids, events, runewords, should i continue?! And its a f2p game! So why i should install D3 again when theres nothing to do? Rifts are not the answer! sure its cool and it works, but you guys definitely need to put more enfort to the game! a company like blizzard should have more imagination when it comes to that!I wont leave Marvel Heroes thats for sure! not until you find a solution to make me back again! I remenber Jay wilson words and we definitely see who is the losser now! So Blizzard put your hand on your consciousness be humble and learn something whit your competicion!

I don't want them to go down the MH path.
As for who the loser is now, well I'd say David Brevik. So he cloned some of D2 and other games. Yet there is no offline over there but you don't seem to count that. Limited trade but you dismiss that. Meanwhile Ros sold well and I am not bothered to buy anything.

Then of course there is this
"Marvel Heroes 2015 is the Marvel MMO ARPG that you have been waiting for! " Notice the genre MMO. Once again we see one comparing d3 to an mmo. I play WOW for my mmo.

t the end of the day FTP game has a smaller player base than a game that cost money.

Well what ever enjoy your time in MH and why not post over there. You have nothing to offer the D3 community.
01/05/2015 01:44 PMPosted by Kyrone
Also, why we even have community managers at this point is beyond me. All they do is post on ridiculously silly posts every now and then. The highly rated posts never get any attention, everything is ignored.

What I can simply not understand is why you are wasting the potential of such a great franchise. If the lack of revenue is the problem, simply add microtransactions.


There is lot of great ideas on this forum that Blizzard has deeply somewhere in the [[removed]] becouse they got theyr own big smart plan how to suck money.
I'm just waiting for it until someone collects all this smart ideas and run campaigns which create Diablo from Kicstarter money for people for players.
Blizzard dont forget without us there is no you.


"they got theyr own big smart plan How to suck money."

Who here has Paid a dime to Blizzard for D3 past buying RoS. Go read the mh forums people have payed well over 250.00 dollars. Meanwhile we are able to play a ptr and looking at another free patch.
Do you have offline on D3?i I do also play Wow for 9 years... David Brevik cloned D2 ofc the guy create the Diablo franchising so theres no problem whit that! limited trade? I guess you never played the game before cuz you have more trade in Marvel Heroes that you have on D3! you also something called Runeword system that make D2 big and interesting 20 years ago !No mather what you say dude this game doesnt have nothing to offer rifts are boring and repetitious! I pay the same money as you did so i have right to opinion like everbody else here, it's called liberty of speech! your just a fan boy that stay happy with little... its easy to see your never played D2 before thats for sure! mean while keep grinding that should be fun for casual ppl like you! for me its just boring!

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