Since it's clearly a matter of money...

General Discussion
How much money does the community have to raise in order to put together a great patch, involving community feedback, and adding a few different modes to suit the different kinds of players?

After spending the last fifteen minutes being repeatedly murdered by a series of 8 different elite packs with Jailer, I realized that it's simple - we have to pay someone to fix this.

I figure I can pitch in $500. I don't know about other people. I just can't keep doing GRifts anymore. I want more.
They made millions from the RMAH and that got us here. Oh and we also had to buy RoS for $40 each, so... We're looking at ~$1 billion to fix the game.

20 million copies of D3 + RoS sold at $40 a pop makes $800,000,000.
1 beez....

you wanna pay 500 for a patch? lol you could get multibox with that cash :D and get lots of legs
The more time I spend thinking about how much raw cheddar this game has made, the more frustrated I get.
Multiboxing doesn't fix the problem. The problem is balance, of which this game is balanced in favor of some fool's decision that "challenging" means "instant death" for builds he doesn't "like."

I figure since money talks, we the community can put together the money to convince someone to fire the guy who made that decision, and hire someone who has a higher opinion of players who don't share his playstyle.
01/25/2015 06:37 PMPosted by MrWindblade
Multiboxing doesn't fix the problem. The problem is balance, of which this game is balanced in favor of some fool's decision that "challenging" means "instant death" for builds he doesn't "like."

I figure since money talks, we the community can put together the money to convince someone to fire the guy who made that decision, and hire someone who has a higher opinion of players who don't share his playstyle.


Unless you got 1 billion.... til then nothing gonna solve D3 problems.
01/25/2015 06:35 PMPosted by UtopiA
The more time I spend thinking about how much raw cheddar this game has made, the more frustrated I get.


The cherry on top are all the clowns that float in with their "add a cash shop to make the game better!" threads. This game has sold soooooooooooooooooooo many copies. Activision rode this cash cow straight to the bank. All that's left is to squeeze the rest of the blood from the stone.
Now I'm just sad...
01/25/2015 06:43 PMPosted by BobWitchDR
All that's left is to squeeze the rest of the blood from the stone.


They could even release more expansions just to squeeze more, it will sell.
That's just it, though - the game made a ton of money. However, we all know that ActiBlizzard isn't content with just a ton of money. They want to make a metric tonne of money - preferably in large bills.

So we provide them with a workable budget, give them a list of things to see accomplished, and monitor their progress. Become their boss, deliverables given in an Early Access style straight on the PTR.

If they don't come through, they don't get paid. Once the game starts to shape up, they start to see paychecks.

It's a little like pavlov's dog. Developers don't know they're doing good when they're still getting paid for garbage. You have to only reward them for good work, not just for bad.
01/25/2015 06:56 PMPosted by MrWindblade
That's just it, though - the game made a ton of money. However, we all know that ActiBlizzard isn't content with just a ton of money. They want to make a metric tonne of money - preferably in large bills.


Since when is the company's fault? Share holders doesn't code or design the game... that's the employers job... meaning they should fire all of them

Don't want to be rude or anything, they hired people that are in charge that doesn't know anything behind the Diablo concept, Brandy for example. Not exactly sure what's per positions there or just community thing but Jay Wilson really screwed things up...
01/25/2015 06:56 PMPosted by MrWindblade
So we provide them with a workable budget, give them a list of things to see accomplished, and monitor their progress. Become their boss, deliverables given in an Early Access style straight on the PTR.


This is the first thing I thought of when I read this:

http://imgur.com/SEwZIHB
No Bob, that's how the game's being done right now...
I don't particularly like the current design of unavoidable damage from jailer frozen and thunderstorm, and things like splash damage from mortars tuned way too high. In an ideal world I'd like to see skill play a much higher factor in avoiding things than it does now.

However, as long as this game is balanced around keeping solo play in mind, and no person can always rely on a zdps build to tank/control for them, then the current state is a necessary evil in balancing melee and ranged. Melee have to take damage, and the 30% reduction is nowhere near a compensation for that, it just means when ranged let melee hit them it hurts worse. Even if you bumped that to 90%+ reduction you could calculate out a grift level where it's better to just dodge everything.

What I'd really like to see them do is rework block and/or dodge into an anti-melee stat, though obviously less spiky than dodge has been in the past. With block I'd like to see something like you straight up absorb/negate X melee damage per second, scaling with at least main stat and attack speed (as an analogue to block speed, and still give a defensive advantage to smaller, faster weapons). That way it could handle melee damage to a level appropriate with that character's stats. Rename all current dodge to parry, and give it the same function, and it could work like that too. Put dodge back in as a small base chance for everyone to dodge anything as like a critical miss, because players obviously hate spiky damage mitigation, but an occasional get out of death free card is fine/lucky.

Unfortunately though, until they address melee damage, unavoidable affixes are a necessary evil to keep ranged from going *total* glass cannon while melee have to care about being hit.
01/25/2015 06:33 PMPosted by UtopiA
They made millions from the RMAH and that got us here. Oh and we also had to buy RoS for $40 each, so... We're looking at ~$1 billion to fix the game.

20 million copies of D3 + RoS sold at $40 a pop makes $800,000,000.


Well I don't mean to take Blizzard's side on this one, but I just wanted to point out that just because ROS was priced at $40 doesn't mean Blizzard makes $40 in sales (except for digital, but even then there are probably factored expenses). If the retail price is $40 (let's say Wal-Mart), then Blizzard sold the units to the retailer (or wholesaler/distributor) for less.
01/25/2015 07:15 PMPosted by Sungrey
then Blizzard sold the units to the retailer (or wholesaler/distributor) for less.


But they still go in profit every year... better than the last one
01/25/2015 07:08 PMPosted by SPDCPA
I don't particularly like the current design of unavoidable damage from jailer frozen and thunderstorm, and things like splash damage from mortars tuned way too high. In an ideal world I'd like to see skill play a much higher factor in avoiding things than it does now.

However, as long as this game is balanced around keeping solo play in mind, and no person can always rely on a zdps build to tank/control for them, then the current state is a necessary evil in balancing melee and ranged. Melee have to take damage, and the 30% reduction is nowhere near a compensation for that, it just means when ranged let melee hit them it hurts worse. Even if you bumped that to 90%+ reduction you could calculate out a grift level where it's better to just dodge everything.


You could indeed calculate out a grift level where it's better to dodge everything. If you can accomplish that feat, you deserve to win. If you can beat every mortar, arrow, melee attack, leap, teleport, stealth, and charge... you deserve to win the game. I agree that melee should be heartier, and their mainstat damage reduction should reflect that, and their overall stats should reflect that. They should be balanced for higher overall statistics because they are, by their nature, a more difficult class to play, but you should also respect the fact that ranged players are playing a different game altogether - that of not getting hit.

What I'd really like to see them do is rework block and/or dodge into an anti-melee stat, though obviously less spiky than dodge has been in the past. With block I'd like to see something like you straight up absorb/negate X melee damage per second, scaling with at least main stat and attack speed (as an analogue to block speed, and still give a defensive advantage to smaller, faster weapons). That way it could handle melee damage to a level appropriate with that character's stats. Rename all current dodge to parry, and give it the same function, and it could work like that too. Put dodge back in as a small base chance for everyone to dodge anything as like a critical miss, because players obviously hate spiky damage mitigation, but an occasional get out of death free card is fine/lucky.


Mostly agree. I don't know how I feel about dodge as a stat - it's one of those things where it's like "Sweet, he just dodged this giant electrical field that busted everything around him." It's generally bad game design (is that the magic word to make it happen?).

Unfortunately though, until they address melee damage, unavoidable affixes are a necessary evil to keep ranged from going *total* glass cannon while melee have to care about being hit.


Why is it important to avoid the glass cannon build? If I'm skilled enough to manually dodge every attack in the game and avoid every projectile, manage my fights so I'm never melee swarmed, and I'm able to still get my damage out while paying attention to all of the fight factors... why not?

They shouldn't be looking for ways to !@#$ over ranged players. They need to buff the melee players. Making melee a desirable option for reasons other than "hey, play melee because you don't die instantly." I don't like melee players because I like bows and magics and dodging things. I don't want to be in the face of a giant monster.
01/25/2015 07:37 PMPosted by MrWindblade
Why is it important to avoid the glass cannon build? If I'm skilled enough to manually dodge every attack in the game and avoid every projectile, manage my fights so I'm never melee swarmed, and I'm able to still get my damage out while paying attention to all of the fight factors... why not?


For the record, look at my profile. My playtime is WD>DH>Cru>Mage>Monk>Barb. My monk is a ranged monk, and until the last week or so when I switched to raekors on my barb to help a friend farm gear for their barb more efficiently I was playing a gimmick t6 boulder toss/avalanche/ik set+rage gen ancients/health globe skills+reapers barb.

That barb was actualy amazingly effective at T6, and way beyond what I thought a ranged barb could do, but I did have a well rolled heart slaughter.

I hit 70 on monk and barb last of all the classes because I play almost entirely ranged builds (other than Crusader, because I play multiplayer and won't force other players to deal with Ponies).

I still recognize the balance issue that they can't make ranged free to play to their skill cap while melee are limited, but if they fix melee and melee mitigation then I think they're free to tone down/eliminate the unavoidable stuff and level the playing field.
01/25/2015 06:31 PMPosted by MrWindblade
How much money does the community have to raise in order to put together a great patch, involving community feedback, and adding a few different modes to suit the different kinds of players?

After spending the last fifteen minutes being repeatedly murdered by a series of 8 different elite packs with Jailer, I realized that it's simple - we have to pay someone to fix this.

I figure I can pitch in $500. I don't know about other people. I just can't keep doing GRifts anymore. I want more.


the patch named "ros" cost $40 per player... now with so many people losing faith in blizz, there's less players so the price would need to go way up
01/25/2015 06:33 PMPosted by UtopiA
They made millions from the RMAH and that got us here. Oh and we also had to buy RoS for $40 each, so... We're looking at ~$1 billion to fix the game.

20 million copies of D3 + RoS sold at $40 a pop makes $800,000,000.


Show me the source of your statement. If they made millions on 15% with having to handle the processing and maintaining the infrastructure of the rmah, how much did the player base walk away with at 85% found money with no over head for playing a game.

I saw a video and they asked the blizzard guy how much they expected to make and he said they would feel lucky if the broke even. They did it to give us an alternative to 3rd party sites.

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