For those that have quit, may I ask why?

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I haven't posted in a very long time. Heck, I haven't played in a very long time. I felt like I wanted to answer this question though.

1-Why did I quit? I'll keep this short as I don't feel like going into mega depth here. I suppose the biggest reason was the removal of a skill tree. I don't need a D2 skill tree...it can be an evolved idea of a skill tree, I don't care, just some sort of skill tree. What did the skill tree do, you may ask. The tree gave us at least half our char power in skills and not 100% power in random RNG items. It also made it so we could play other specs even if we didn't have all the gear to do so.

2-Depth, or lack of it. There is no more skill points to add depth to our char...there is no stats to make us unique. The only real choice I see that we have to me unique is the naming of our char.

3-The game just got smaller. In D2 we had 8 player games and you could fight where ever you wanted once in it. In D3 you have 4 players...it's not the same.

4-DPS this and DPS that...there is no defense anymore...its damage or nothing.

5-Cool downs, they just don't belong in Diablo.

1-What would make me come back. The thing I would want most is to have half my char power in something other then gear and not something end game...something I can begin the game with. Make it so we can play other specs without all the gear needed to do it. Get rid or do something with cool downs.

P.S- I know all the arguments to skills trees and most of the things I have said. I respect your opinions on those arguments and can only hope you can respect mine.
12/18/2014 08:30 PMPosted by Drothvader
12/18/2014 08:24 PMPosted by Asmodeous
I Hate the fact that you must find certain items to enable the only viable build each class has.

I don't mind that items are build defining, what I don't like is that only a very small handful of them are actually useful and the ones that are useful are absurdly rare.


The only real problem is that the item pool is too shallow, specifically for ultra-rare items of extreme power.

I'll tell you why I did quit pre-RoS versus why I haven't quit post-RoS, and let's see what say you.

I quit no less than 8 times pre-RoS. Due to the egocentric approach of Jay Wilson, due to the AH's rotting influence, due to terrible itemization, due to too much marketing and not enough development.

I have not quit RoS because I have sensed nothing but true, real effort since Josh came in. I have seen Legendary items go from being nothing but rares with higher ranges to truly unique, build defining items. Find one item, you can change your whole build to suit it.

I have not quit because they finally merged what was great about D3 Vanilla (the combat) with truly inspired, dynamic items. I have NOT quit because the item hunt remains interesting due to certain items being so gosh darned rare.
12/18/2014 11:17 PMPosted by Gares
4-DPS this and DPS that...there is no defense anymore...its damage or nothing.


That is absolutely NOT true. First off; Hardcore.

Secondly; It's not even true in Softcore anymore with the introduction of Grifts.

100% false sentiment being put on display by your here.
12/18/2014 11:17 PMPosted by Gares
I'll keep this short as I don't feel like going into mega depth here. I suppose the biggest reason was the removal of a skill tree


We have a skill tree.
12/18/2014 11:27 PMPosted by BurningRope
12/18/2014 11:17 PMPosted by Gares
I'll keep this short as I don't feel like going into mega depth here. I suppose the biggest reason was the removal of a skill tree


We have a skill tree.


We have a skill tree that gives us power on the terms of our gear and nothing else. That is not a skill tree imo.
12/18/2014 11:34 PMPosted by Gares
We have a skill tree that gives us power on the terms of our gear and nothing else. That is not a skill tree imo.


It's an illusion. Show me one Hammerdin from D2 that didn't have full points to Blessed Hammer. Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.

You had a few skills with full points, a ton of skills with 1 point that you didn't even use, and a few skills with half-power.

The old Skill Tree diluted your power.

As much as people blather on about how items in D3 determine your build, I remember as soon as you got your hands on an EbotdZ, Grief or other similar game-breaking weapons, it didn't matter what skill points you put here or there, you owned the damn game from there on.

The old Skill Tree seemed so much more potent back then because the game was sooooo got damned EZ.
Not quit, really WILL never, but what drives MOST away:

1. RNG
2, RNG+RNG
3. RNG+RNG+RNG
4. RNG+RNG+RNG+RNG (ancients)

It's stupid that ALL progression (outside of P level) is simply a matter of winning lotto.
We'll ALL be P800 and maxed eventually, then what?
12/18/2014 11:43 PMPosted by BurningRope
12/18/2014 11:34 PMPosted by Gares
We have a skill tree that gives us power on the terms of our gear and nothing else. That is not a skill tree imo.


It's an illusion. Show me one Hammerdin from D2 that didn't have full points to Blessed Hammer. Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.

You had a few skills with full points, a ton of skills with 1 point that you didn't even use, and a few skills with half-power.

The old Skill Tree diluted your power.

As much as people blather on about how items in D3 determine your build, I remember as soon as you got your hands on an EbotdZ, Grief or other similar game-breaking weapons, it didn't matter what skill points you put here or there, you owned the damn game from there on.

The old Skill Tree seemed so much more potent back then because the game was sooooo got damned EZ.


A "Naked" Sorc in Diablo 2 could solo Hell.

A "Naked" Wizard in Diablo 3 gets rekt.

In Diablo 2, much of our power (for casters) came from Skills. In Diablo 3, everything comes from loots.

Stats point were an illusion of choice for the most part.
I've heard this all before. There have been many long threads about the illusion of power and the nostalgia and all that junk. This argument goes round and a round and around in a big go no where circle.
tl;dr: D3 wasnt intended to become Diablo 2-made-better so there really is no point pushing for things that are really because it was the thing in Diablo 2

I always call it D3 nowadays because it really doesn't feel Diablo-ey >xD
For myself and my clan mates, our playtime significantly gets the "nerf-bat" or stopped completely because....

1) the trials suck, period;
2) gr-ing is pointless after a while;
3) we get pigeon-holed to a specific set and build - which directly kills off other runes, elements and legs.
4) some sets are either bugged (ie.firebird) or utterly useless (ie. invoker, wall of zombies).

I don't mind the drop rates of the rarest of rare stuffs, actually. But I guess the combination of above-mentioned is simply,a "fun-slayer".

Thanks Droth for this thread, and fellow posters for the good feedback.

I guess we all should try not to expect much from the devs anymore, and perhaps, just play this game once in a while - if you ever feel like slaying some mobs.
12/18/2014 11:48 PMPosted by DoomBringer
A "Naked" Sorc in Diablo 2 could solo Hell.

A "Naked" Wizard in Diablo 3 gets rekt.

In Diablo 2, much of our power (for casters) came from Skills. In Diablo 3, everything comes from loots.


But you're watering down the whole situation and omitting the many other factors. As I said, d2 was easy.

Diablo 2 didn't present us with the extreme litany of monster affixes we have in D3, it presented us with a litany of predictable monster element immunities.

Yes, Diablo 3 has a strong reliance on items lending power to your build, more so than D2. Tell me again why this is inherently bad? I actually prefer this dynamic, personally.

In D2, we had very powerful charms. Thus, a "naked" character was never truly naked.

In Diablo 2, if you had a fire sorc (for example), you put full points to fire skills. There was not other approach. The fact that you could "wreck" the game only using a fully powered skill, naked or not, kinda shines a light on the inherent flaws of D2, doesn't it?
I quit because all of my friends did. I tried to join so called "active" guilds but I would only see 1-2 people on at any given time. After seeing the fiasco that was Diablo 3 at Blizzcon I'm more than likely done for good now.

What would it take for me to come back? Not much, maybe another expansion?
12/18/2014 11:48 PMPosted by DoomBringer
12/18/2014 11:43 PMPosted by BurningRope
...

It's an illusion. Show me one Hammerdin from D2 that didn't have full points to Blessed Hammer. Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.

You had a few skills with full points, a ton of skills with 1 point that you didn't even use, and a few skills with half-power.

The old Skill Tree diluted your power.

As much as people blather on about how items in D3 determine your build, I remember as soon as you got your hands on an EbotdZ, Grief or other similar game-breaking weapons, it didn't matter what skill points you put here or there, you owned the damn game from there on.

The old Skill Tree seemed so much more potent back then because the game was sooooo got damned EZ.


A "Naked" Sorc in Diablo 2 could solo Hell.

A "Naked" Wizard in Diablo 3 gets rekt.

In Diablo 2, much of our power (for casters) came from Skills. In Diablo 3, everything comes from loots.

Stats point were an illusion of choice for the most part.


Take a seat on the couch and tell me all about this ... fixation with naked wizards

=P
12/18/2014 11:43 PMPosted by BurningRope
Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.


Not necessary. 1 point + skills from items was enough it wasn't the dmg u wanted from smite it was the never missing attack... Ofc u could maximize but as I mentioned not necessary.
12/19/2014 12:16 AMPosted by Aleks
12/18/2014 11:43 PMPosted by BurningRope
Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.


Not necessary. 1 point + skills from items was enough it wasn't the dmg u wanted from smite it was the never missing attack... Ofc u could maximize but as I mentioned not necessary.


Yeah, I did this all the time with my Zealot (an elite melee dueler). I would occasionally switch him over to smite for Ubers.

And guess what was the only reason why this worked? A weapon, 1 weapon. Grief. Same dynamic in D2 as in D3 is on display here. Without that one item, I couldn't even begin to smite effectively with the 1 point to Smite (plus skills from items).

So we see some similarities here between the two titles. Both games had many instances where you simply couldn't run a specific build well (or at all) without a specific weapon.
Not played mote than a month. waiting for new patch and it seems that take eras to release a low content patch...
I stop play because Grifts were very unbalanced and there were a lot of exploits that helped some players to climb the leaderboards. I can not compete with exploiters...
One shot mechanic in high Grift levels also frustrating me very much.
12/18/2014 11:43 PMPosted by BurningRope
It's an illusion. Show me one Hammerdin from D2 that didn't have full points to Blessed Hammer. Show me one Smiter that didn't have full points to Smite.


That is one build. There were dozens of other possible builds that people played with. What was that you were saying about watering things down and over-simplifying them?

12/19/2014 12:10 AMPosted by BurningRope
Diablo 2 didn't present us with the extreme litany of monster affixes we have in D3, it presented us with a litany of predictable monster element immunities.


So you are saying that because D3 has more types of monster combinations that we need LESS build diversity in D3?

Because there is. I'm sorry but there is no denying that there is way less diversity in D3 than there was in D2. The whole "OMG we have BAZILLIONS of builds!!!" is a total sham and myth.

12/19/2014 12:10 AMPosted by BurningRope
Yes, Diablo 3 has a strong reliance on items lending power to your build, more so than D2. Tell me again why this is inherently bad? I actually prefer this dynamic, personally.


That's fine if you prefer that dynamic. But you asked for why it's inherently bad and so here you go.

1. Players have no control over how they build their character because gear is completely random.

2. Leveling from 1-70 is now a meaningless chore because everyone is now exactly the same and can't customize their hero right from the beginning.

3. All quests are now generic and pointless because the heroes are designed to be generic. No more permanent stat boosts or +1 to a skill or "add a socket to an item" quests. Now we get nothing but gold and XP for questing.

4. BECAUSE all quests are generic and meaningless thanks to this system, playing the game through Normal, Nightmare, and Hell becomes meaningless. So they had to remove this feature of the game to cover up their MEANINGLESS leveling system.

5. There is NO STRUCTURED REWARD SYSTEM. Skill trees offer a reward structure to help mitigate RNG. They give the player a reliable reward no matter what type of luck the player has while they play. In D3 if you have bad luck you are SOL. No backup system implemented thanks to this design. You either get the gear you need or you don't play the build you want.

6. This system makes trading not work because gear is 99% of your power. When all your power comes from gear, then trading becomes the fastest way to gain power. Not having free trade in a game with this much RNG is just crazy. There needs to be trade to allow RNG mitigation, but this system makes trade not work. It's like a crazy merry-go-round in game design.

7. Using gear to "make builds" means that there will be less useable builds because everyone just looks for the best gear. Everyone just looks for the same couple of stats and that's it. Whatever gives players the most DPS becomes the go-to build for that class. There can never be real diversity when a system like that is in place.

12/19/2014 12:10 AMPosted by BurningRope
In Diablo 2, if you had a fire sorc (for example), you put full points to fire skills. There was not other approach. The fact that you could "wreck" the game only using a fully powered skill, naked or not, kinda shines a light on the inherent flaws of D2, doesn't it?


And what flaw would that be exactly? You mean the "flaw" that people could level up the way they want and succeed?

You mean the "flaw" that people could customize their characters and have more options?

If you consider those to be flaws then D3 needs a lot more of them because your "perfect" system isn't working.

The fact that the developers have to keep adding gear to keep the game fresh is proof that this formula is just a pointless gear loop that goes to nowhere.
12/19/2014 12:36 AMPosted by Tetra
That is one build. There were dozens of other possible builds that people played with. What was that you were saying about watering things down and over-simplifying them?


Actually, that's two, but EVERY build relied on a few fully powered skills, a few half powered skills, and a litany of 1 point skills that were nothing but wasted points.

12/19/2014 12:36 AMPosted by Tetra
So you are saying that because D3 has more types of monster combinations that we need LESS build diversity in D3?


C'mon. no. I'm saying D2 was easy, D3 is much more difficult. The more difficult an ARPG is, the less build diversity you'll witness. The higher the difficulty, the higher the odds are that we'll see a funneling effect on build diversity.

I feel Blizz is needs to do better to deepen the item pool in order to increase build diversity, but all in all, there are an extreme number of T6 viable builds, literally millions of variable builds that could crush T6.

They WILL increase the difficulty (mark my words) once this pool gets deeper.

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