The Devs' Thoughts on Realm of Trials

General Discussion
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02/11/2015 02:17 PMPosted by Tyvalir
02/10/2015 12:13 PMPosted by zarquon
It was designed to be a convenience, because before Trials you started at Greater Rift level 1 and advanced from there every time. Trials were designed as a way to skip this process.

That's exactly right. When Greater Rifts were first added to the game, players were able to start at Greater Rift 1 and jump up in difficulty quickly. However, this often led to them overshooting their mark and biting off more than they could chew difficulty-wise.

Although Rifts of Trials were intended to solve this problem (by helping players gauge the best Greater Rift level for them more quickly), they ended up becoming tedious for many players. As Travis mentioned during yesterday's Tavern Talk, we agree with players that it's silly to have to go through the Realm of Trials each time you want to do a Greater Rift. After all, that's like having to "measure up" each time you go on the same ride at a theme park (versus only the first time), right?

At any rate, we agree the Realm of Trials is flawed, which is why the development team is looking at other options for how to structure Rifts and Greater Rifts.

Edit: The Twitch VOD for yesterday's Tavern Talk is [url="http://www.twitch.tv/diablo/b/623026202"]now available[/url]. You can hear where the developers talked about Rifts of Trials at around 1:14:12. Hope that helps!


Thank god! so this will get fixed around 2016
02/12/2015 01:47 PMPosted by Knorth
This way they will still need a greater rift keystone for the next level and no one can just keep starting over again and again until they get the mobs they want.


02/12/2015 02:02 PMPosted by page
why should abolishing trials go along with abolishing needing keys?


I didn't mean anything about getting rid of keystones. For example if you have completed a level 55 greater rift in the past and gotten a greater rift 56 keystone and failed, you couldn't just be giving a level 56 greater rift keystones over and over until you found one that had the easy mobs to finish it fast. You would have to do another 55 to get the 56 keystone. That way you would still have to work for the level 56 greater rift but didn't have to complete the trials. I know in a way this may be similar to trials but this way you would at least be guaranteed loot after doing that level 55 greater rift again.
02/11/2015 05:25 PMPosted by Jakkal07
Here is a perfectly OKAY solution to Trials...

Do trials, get a stone that you complete, like normal, except that its a permanent stone... like if you get a GR 27, its a stone you can use over and over again... if you ever want a higher starting rift, you can reuse a trial stone, using your perma stone, and do it over... if you qualify for higher, your stone is upgraded.
Everyone tries to make this complicated including Blizzard.Give people the option to choose what lvl greater rift up to that specific characters highest completed rift.Then you remove all pylons from all greater rifts.Seriously Blizzard says they want to normalize greater rifts then keeps a random element that greatly alters the outcome of the rift time.Also give us the option to auto loot crafting materials+gems ...seriously Blizzard wake the !@#$ up and actually play your game.One more thing let us throw out and or delete trial stones...I dont even care about doing greater rifts after a certain point but I have 20+ stash slots that I cant use because of this.
guys did you hear, american outfitters has a new set of pants.

it's really convenient. it's in pieces, all nicely cut out. all you have to do is sew it up.

it's really convenient because if they didn't give it to you in pieces, you'd have to make new pants from scratch!

seriously. is that the best spin the devs can put on things.
02/11/2015 02:17 PMPosted by Tyvalir
02/10/2015 12:13 PMPosted by zarquon
It was designed to be a convenience, because before Trials you started at Greater Rift level 1 and advanced from there every time. Trials were designed as a way to skip this process.

That's exactly right. When Greater Rifts were first added to the game, players were able to start at Greater Rift 1 and jump up in difficulty quickly. However, this often led to them overshooting their mark and biting off more than they could chew difficulty-wise.

Although Rifts of Trials were intended to solve this problem (by helping players gauge the best Greater Rift level for them more quickly), they ended up becoming tedious for many players. As Travis mentioned during yesterday's Tavern Talk, we agree with players that it's silly to have to go through the Realm of Trials each time you want to do a Greater Rift. After all, that's like having to "measure up" each time you go on the same ride at a theme park (versus only the first time), right?

At any rate, we agree the Realm of Trials is flawed, which is why the development team is looking at other options for how to structure Rifts and Greater Rifts.

Edit: The Twitch VOD for yesterday's Tavern Talk is [url="http://www.twitch.tv/diablo/b/623026202"]now available[/url]. You can hear where the developers talked about Rifts of Trials at around 1:14:12. Hope that helps!


Are you really though? Judging from the sheer volume of forum posts, I'd have to say that getting rid of Trials in favor of another system and removing or expanding the blood shard cap are the two most pressing concerns that players have. I also don't get any feeling as an avid player that you actually care about either one of those concerns and are far more interested in adding in "new" content that will be lackluster and disappointing if nothing more than for the ability to say - "look at these new shiny toys".

Fix what's currently broken, don't add to the mess.
02/10/2015 12:02 PMPosted by Mattman
"The Realm of Trials was designed to be a convenience to the players."

-D3 Tavern Talk

It is very strange that the devs idea of convenience is an unnecessary time waster that doesn't even accurately give keys at the appropriate level.

The most unusual thing is the insistence on dealing with this poorly designed and unnecessary component when the simplest solution is the best (and most convenient).

Simply allow people to pick grifts for whatever level they desire up to +1 over the the highest elvel they have completed.

If you are wringing your hands over how to do groups.....allow highest group access to be an average of the combined levels of highest group level completed. Or something along those lines.

So freaking simple. WhyTF is this still an issue?
Start at 1 the first time you do greater with a toon... the higher you go the higher you unlock to directly go in the next time you want to do greater... problem solved..
Or theres always the better idea scrap g rifts all together and make the trials where its at how many waves can u defeat with in 15 minutes?
omg and every ten lvls up theres a loot boss wut. lvl 30 n up drop legs.....
02/13/2015 09:14 AMPosted by adm0ni
It is very strange that the devs idea of convenience is an unnecessary time waster that doesn't even accurately give keys at the appropriate level.

It's a convenience in the context of what it used to be.

As Tyvalir said, the original design was that you started at Greater Rift 1 every single time and you had to make your way up. The trial was added as a convenience to let you skip all of that.

When you look at the word convenience, you have to look at it in the full context of what it actually was before they were added.
02/12/2015 01:47 PMPosted by Knorth
02/11/2015 02:53 PMPosted by Pereg
If you get rid of trials, players will just keep restarting the game at their highest difficulty until they get zombies.


I totally agree with this. I think trials should stay but people should still have the benefit of starting on the last level completed and not the next level up. This way they will still need a greater rift keystone for the next level and no one can just keep starting over again and again until they get the mobs they want.


But that really isn't the issue, what you are stating is the the progress of each mob type that can spawn in GRIFTs does not correlate with their difficulty in terms of time to kill and 'danger level'. Further, people will also fish for RG, shrines, layout, density, etc.

All of these factors are the RNG inherent to the current implementation of GRIFTs, which are (IMO) anathema to a truly competitive environment. It's all a farce. I don't see why you would pick on just 1 element (mob type) and not see all the other variables too? And then by extension use that as a justification to keep a hated mechanic like trials (with all it's issues) in the game?

If the devs were serious (and I know they really aren't, or to be more kind aren't allowed to spend the time it would take to work all this out on a more near-term timescale) they would actually make each level of GRIFT the same for each person tackling said level. Then the meter stick would be 'fair'. That is not their vision though, so we have all of this variability baked in (which is why those looking for top leaderboard positions 'fish' in the first place).

An alternative approach is to do what was suggested WAAAAY back when 2.1 was still in PTR- namely that rather than just infinitely scaling HP/dam (or perhaps in tandem with a much smaller slope in mob strength per GRIFT level) they should just increase the mechanical difficulty of the RIFT- more dangerous mob types and combinations, more elite affixes, more elites overall, etc. etc.

They chose the path of least dev time (scale HP/damage to the point of absurdity) which directly fuels power creep (which has the side effect of trivializing what once was the 'hardest' difficulty in the game) and comes with all the current problems like toughness becoming functionally irrelevant when you get 1 shot by everything (including unavoidable bull!@#$ like jailer), and now we are paying the price for that decision.
I kinda like doing trials.
Trials are meaningful yes.

The current implementation of get a DH and get high keys 1st is massively fail though.

Make single player, 2 man, 3man, 4man keys.

The current solo leaderboards are about who has good geared high para DH friends which is absurd.

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