Power Without Gameplay

General Discussion
Is exactly what we need. Yes, I said it.

What's the most popular set out there right now? The Monk's 4 piece set, SWK, is hailed as revolutionary! What does it do? Gives a small clone that explodes that you ignore, and otherwise just gives spender damagex5.

The issue with the idea that with power must come some game-play gimmick is part of what's killing this game. Before you get a single legendary item, the number of builds you can create on a given class that are relatively equal is actually quite acceptable, and people ENJOY playing their Chains of Torment/Strafe/Fan of Knives builds.

Honestly a 4 piece set that simply says, your damage is multiplied 4x would probably be one of, if not THE MOST POPULAR set you could create, and it might be slightly weaker than Marauders and SWK. Sets have cool gameplay, but focusing on these specific builds and making them 5x more powerful than anything else? It's destroying player options.

I'd love it if I could use my own build unrelated to class sets that is only 10-20% behind in damage/survival/utility.
Well, sort of.
honestly, in my opinion, its should be:
10 different sets for each class, all at about the same power level
(I don't mind one being capable of GR 47 and the other 54, as long as all of them are 40+ capable)
OR
No sets (and if blizzard insist on keeping the sets. let it be a general power boost, and not an effect that force you to play one !@#$ing way).

Anything in the middle... well.. is just terrible.
Well said Guybrush.
Yeah having sets as the only viable option to be competitive is ridiculous.
02/18/2015 10:04 PMPosted by Artemis
Well, sort of.
honestly, in my opinion, its should be:
10 different sets for each class, all at about the same power level
(I don't mind one being capable of GR 47 and the other 54, as long as all of them are 40+ capable)
OR
No sets (and if blizzard insist on keeping the sets. let it be a general power boost, and not an effect that force you to play one !@#$ing way).

Anything in the middle... well.. is just terrible.


The issue is that 10 sets for each class with similar power level isn't going to happen any time soon. RoS has been out over a year now, not a single set has been added, and very few/none of the "bad" class sets have been balanced.

That being said, even WITH 10 sets per class, it wouldn't cover everything. They already have a sentry set, what are the chances they add another? I'd like a set that allows me to use both strafe and chains of torment, with both contributing reasonable amounts of damage. What are the chances we'll ever see a set that incorporates both?

What if I want to do a Rend/HotA build? Unlikely with the Rend/Whirlwind build coming out soon. What about Whirlwind/Revenge? The issue is, when a set only buffs one of the skills you want to use, the damage from any skills not included is trivialized, to the point where you really don't notice the damage.

Or worse, the set buffs a dot that builds up over time and then trivializes all damage you can deal from that point on meaning you may as well just run in circles.
02/18/2015 10:00 PMPosted by Guybrush
I'd love it if I could use my own build unrelated to class sets that is only 10-20% behind in damage/survival/utility.

Amen.
Also it doesn't give x5 damage to all spenders, just the only ones that activate the ability.

Personally blizzard has yet to add more sets to the classes, let alone balancing and making the others more relevant, like Raiment of a Thousand Storms, and Akkan's. Akkan's man... no offense to anyone but Akkan's Champion would be better if it acted like Rage of the Berserker. no if it was that skill.

To Quote Pat from Two Best Friends Play: The !@#$ parts will always be %^-*, so you wanna make the strong parts awesome and they'll kick !@#.
I may be paraphrasing (said during their Disaster: Day of Crisis playthrough) but the meaning is there.

Certain sets like Marauder's simply gives TONS of cross-skill functionality, by giving those other skills different bonuses.

Know what would make EVERY class skill better? Doing to them like what Marauders has been done to.

Immortal King's? Raiment? Akkan's? REMOVE the dang stat bonus.

Sets are supposed to make you undeniably powerful, ESPECIALLY the huge ones. Like Raiment, literally have of your inventory, it's sheer size alone, makes it completely unviable because you can find way more legendaries with better powers in the time it'll take you to find enough Raiment pieces so that you can use the full set's potential.
If you remove the stat bonus and make a skill do something wierdly abnormal or otherwise not possible other than "skill gains the effect of every rune" which is more fitting of a legendary power than anything. (like with Akkan's, make Archer attacks do triple the damage, or with Immortal King's make Call of the Ancients gain a lifesteal effect that siphons to you if they're at maximum health, or with Tal Rasha's make it so that equipping a familiar, equips all versions at once for 5 individual familiars) or buff it by atleast 2-3 times.

Then maybe give us a "complete Set Bonus" like in Diablo 2, where we get some absolutely silly power if we have every item in a set, like "Call of the Ancients casts twice, the second copies are weaker" or "Arcane Torrent's cast radius and cast speed are doubled" or if we went TOTALLY insane with it "Akkan's Champion gives a shield equal to double of your maximum health and only ends when the shield is depleted" or possibly even "Zombie Dogs summon as Gargantuans with the same rune effect and can be sacrificed"

Set powers should make you look at it and be like "yeah... I'm gonna be freaking sweet with you!" not "Oh okay, I need 4 items before you're any good" when not talking marauder's and SWK sets.

People rely upon SWK and Marauder's because they literally are good sets, the others give dumb bonuses until you get 4 or more items into the set like main stats, some doing 250.

How useless is 250? Well it's useful, but if you had the chance to have something like "Casting Archon releases a Frost nova" over that... you'd take the Archon power, because legendary powers on sets should be more powerful than any legendary powers because sets... they're practically designed for nothing but the end-game, the T6 and G25 rifts and higher. They make you wicked powerful and rarely ever drop (the good ones i mean).

Sets... you get them after playing for enough time. Sets always should mean awesome cosmical powers because... I mean... why would blizzard ever make them so hard to get if not for some other reason?

I personally have high hopes for the still untapped potential in sets. I just hope that Blizzard acts upon that potential and taps them, just like with Seasons.

Until then, I'll be around, take care all.
Stormy, sets are NOT difficult to complete. (Except SWK, can not get that stupid shines...)

And yeah, SWK does do 5x for all spenders, all spenders are on that list (no, sweeping wind and SSS are not "spenders").

Sets do have considerable potential, the issue is that they remove the potential of all other builds and most other legs.

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