[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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04/17/2015 10:22 AMPosted by DravenShrike
is it confirmed that Deadly Reach:Strike from beyond does not work for R6?

also does R6 dashing strike proc the damage increase if your bane of the trapped is lvl 25 and above?

BotT should self-proc for DS since everything you hit should be within 15 yards.

Strike from Beyond didn't work last week when I tested, so probably an coding oversight. Id still probably use Quickening over it, but DR does Knockup incase you wanted to use Strongarms ^_^
I was curious as to if DS really did activate BotT and MoC as you were dashing across the screen, and I am sad to report that the first DS you land as you ENTER combat does NOT benefit from either MoC or BotT until you DS again. Pretty much the damage lands before the BotT snare & MoC kicks in.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/EKNFf5I.jpg

Control Test #s
1--2
3--4
5--6
7
8

Rank 52 BotT = +30.6% damage

Control Test#1 = Basic Attack
Damage = 2180 = 100% wd

Control Test#2 = Basic Attack with BotT
Damage = 2847
2180*1.306= 2847
Conclusion = BotT works

Control Test#3 = DS without MoC
Damage = 8359

Control Test#4 = DS without MoC with BotT
Damage = 10916
8359*1.306=10917

Control Test#5 = DS with MoC
Damage = 9092

Control Test#6 = DS with MoC with BotT
Damage = 11874
9092*1.306=11874

Control Test#7 = Outside of BotT and MoC Range
Just showing the location of the player vs targets BEFORE dashing in

Control Test#8 = Damage of initial Dash into combat
Damage = 8359
Conclusion = Both BotT and MoC do not benefit the first dash into combat.

>_< So for T6, BotT may not be as ideal if you are trying to one-shot everything. For GR, BotT is till probably the #1 gem to use, as monster HP is so high the first dash is kind of inconsequential. Though from personal experience, T6 is so easy now that this little issue really doesn't affect much, as I'm probably going to continue using it anyways. It just kind of means if you are really going super-fast BotT may only affect the RG.
How's the interaction between Crudest Boots and Inna's 2-piece bonus supposed to work?

I'm getting some silly high LpS numbers with the combination of Crudest, Inna's, MWG, Enduring Ally and Mantra of Healing.

Like..."my recovery is higher than my toughness by a little bit" high.

The math on Enduring Ally/Mantra of Healing with Crudest/Inna's seems to match up with the math it uses for, say, Mantra of Salvation's resists or Air Ally's spirit per second, so I don't think it's outright bugged.

And of course, it won't prevent you from being one-shotted. It's just a very high number in a place that you usually don't see numbers that high.

Any experience with this? Or am I misunderstanding the interaction and is 450k LpS an aberrant result?
04/17/2015 10:22 AMPosted by DravenShrike
is it confirmed that Deadly Reach:Strike from beyond does not work for R6?


Last I tried it does not.. you can simply check if the icon stays up after you DS.. but I did test
waaaaaat. really conviction doesnt work til after first dash? weaksauce.

That sucks for anyone trying to make Envious Blade work lol.
Thanks for the info Davlok, Darth
04/17/2015 07:07 PMPosted by Sage
How's the interaction between Crudest Boots and Inna's 2-piece bonus supposed to work?

I'm getting some silly high LpS numbers with the combination of Crudest, Inna's, MWG, Enduring Ally and Mantra of Healing.

Like..."my recovery is higher than my toughness by a little bit" high.

The math on Enduring Ally/Mantra of Healing with Crudest/Inna's seems to match up with the math it uses for, say, Mantra of Salvation's resists or Air Ally's spirit per second, so I don't think it's outright bugged.

And of course, it won't prevent you from being one-shotted. It's just a very high number in a place that you usually don't see numbers that high.

Any experience with this? Or am I misunderstanding the interaction and is 450k LpS an aberrant result?


http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16412171625

has the forumla for Gizzard. Just now in 2.2, mantra is adding Gizzard's value <3
04/17/2015 07:07 PMPosted by Sage
How's the interaction between Crudest Boots and Inna's 2-piece bonus supposed to work?

How it's supposed to work and how it actually works are probably two different things. I did a quick test to try and figure out the formula and came up with a weird summation that added up to what the game says it should, but isn't that intuitive.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/zbTUFrf.jpg

I tried to pickup one of every type of LpS I could find - templar, item, paragon, and gem. I'll leave Rogar for someone else to figure out ^_^

Templar = 6437
Item = 7121
Paragon = 10728.4
Gizzard = 58000

I used Inna 2pc + 4pc and MoC: Sustenance as well as Mystic Ally: Enduring Ally with Crudest Boots. I did this up in excel, but what basically happens is Mantra's 30% works on everything - including Enduring Ally... but the weird thing it is also works on the 30% bonus from E.Ally (essentially double dipping). But E.Ally itself doesn't count Gizzard or Templar. That probably only made sense to me, but here's the equation:

LpS Calculation:
Gem = 58,000
Templar = 6,437
Paragon = 10,728.4
Gear = 7,121
Mantra of Healing: Sustenance = 21,456.8 x2 = 42,913.6
Mystic Ally: Enduring = 10,728.4 x2 x2 = 42,913.6
Enduring Ally Bonus = (10,728.4+7,121)*30%*2*2 = 21,419.28
Mantra Bonus = (42,913.6+7,121+10,728.4+58,000+6,437)*30%*2*2=150,240
Mantra Bonus on EA's Bonus = 21419.28*30%*2*2 = 25,703.14

Add that all up
58000+6437+10728.4+7121+42913.6+42913.6+21419.28+150240+25703.14 = 365,476

Shield Value = 365,476x2 = 730,952

As you can see, it matches up with what the game does as well. But having a shield greater than my actual health pool is pretty funny. It makes Gizzard a pretty strong gem, especially with Inna's. I like using Gizzard + Esoteric, and then slap things until they die. ^_^
Okay, thank you for testing that out!

The double-dipping on the 30% bonus makes sense, it seemed like I was getting a number higher than I should've based solely on adding it together and multiplying.

Highest shield I've been able to get so far was something like 910k. I can get my Monk's recovery to a bit over his toughness, which strikes me as funny.
04/18/2015 10:19 PMPosted by Sage
Okay, thank you for testing that out!

The double-dipping on the 30% bonus makes sense, it seemed like I was getting a number higher than I should've based solely on adding it together and multiplying.

Highest shield I've been able to get so far was something like 910k. I can get my Monk's recovery to a bit over his toughness, which strikes me as funny.


Yep, I looked through my stash and put all the LpS gear I could find and was able to get up to a 1.28m HP shield, which was over double my actual HP. The recovery stat is based off how much expect HP you can heal, so once you heal more than your max HP per second + whatever factor LpSS/LoH is, then it becomes greater than your actual toughness. I'm sure there is a formula for that too.

http://i.imgur.com/4kWu5n1.jpg

Looked up the max regen you could get from gear, and for solo, the highest semi-achievable LpS is 940,487 which would mean a 1,880,975 HP shield ^_^ I'm sure with group buffs from Warcry/Laws/etc could bump that to 2m+
Question was brought up from the testing done in post#22, that if BotT wasn't activated upon initial dash INTO combat, maybe Zei would be a suitable replacement for BotT in speed clears... and the answer to that is.... No, not really. Just did a quick test with a level 30 Zei. (+27.5% damage at 50 yds)

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/8jMIlF1.jpg

Control Test #s
1
2

Control Test#1 = DS without Zei
Damage = 406,349

Control Test#2 = DS with Zei from across the screen
Damage = 485,831 to 406,349
485,831/406,349 = ~35 yards away

Conclusion = Zei calculates the damage bonus from the TARGET location, not from the ORIGINAL location.

So since speed clears you want to one-shot going INTO combat, and not 'away', Zei is not that great an option for R6 in T6.
Finally found a normal Pigsticker to test with since lost the ancient one I had saved from Season 2.... probably during a mass claim & salvage >_< Anyways, I wanted to verify that the +% Beasts/Humans was actually multiplicative, so dusted off the legacy min damage Hellfire Ring, bought a random level 1 blue weapon and picked a variety of buffs to test & verify multiplicative-ness.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/62rXfYq.jpg

Control Test #s
1--2
3--4
5--6
7--8
--9--

(excel calculations had many more decimals, numbers shown rounded up)

Control Test#1 = Basic Attack
Damage = 1603 = 100% wd

Control Test#2 = Basic Attack with 20%/30% Physical SoJ
Damage = 1923
1603 * 1.2 = 1923
Conclusion = Basic Attack is considered Physical ^_^

Control Test#3 = Basic Attack w/ SoJ+Blazing Wrath
Damage = 2115
1603 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 2115
Conclusion = Blazing Wrath is not additive with Elemental

Control Test#4 = Basic Attack w/ SoJ+BW+Momentum
Damage = 2499
1603 * 1.2 * (1+.1+.2) = 2499
Conclusion = Momentum is additive with Blazing Wrath (DibS)

Control Test#5 = Quickening w/ SoJ+R2
Damage = 15,381
1603 * 1.2 * 4 * 2 = 15,381
Conclusion = Raiment is not additive with Elemental

Control Test#6 = Q w/ SoJ+R2+BW+M
Damage = 19,995
1603 * 1.2 * 4 * 2 * 1.3 = 19,995
Conclusion = Raiment is not additive with DibS or Ele ^_^v

Control Test#7 = Q w/ SoJ+R2+BW+M
Damage = 25,993
1603 * 1.2 * 4 * 2 * 1.3 * 1.3 = 25,994
Conclusion = Elite Damage is not additive with R2, DibS, or Ele

Control Test#8 = Q w/ SoJ+R2+BW+M+BotT (R52)
Damage = 33,947
1603 * 1.2 * 4 * 2 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.306 = 33948
Conclusion = BotT is not additive with R2, DibS, Ele, or Elite.

Control Test#9 = Q w/ SoJ+R2+BW+M+BotT, PS (22%)
Damage = 41,416
1603 * 1.2 * 4 * 2 * 1.3 * 1.3 * 1.306 * 1.22 = 41,416
Conclusion = Pigsticker is not additive with R2, DibS, Ele, Eli, or BotT.

Summary
So unless some really obscure mechanic is present, Pigsticker's +% to Beasts & Humans is Multiplicative.. Can't say that with 100% certainty unless every single buff/debuff is also present, but definitely seems like it is every bit the awesome-sauce as advertised.
This is really awesome stuff Davlok! Very comprehensive. Thanks for this!

Any chance that you might test out Zei's with Exploding palm? (Both its DOT and explosion damage)
I was curious as to if DS really did activate BotT and MoC as you were dashing across the screen, and I am sad to report that the first DS you land as you ENTER combat does NOT benefit from either MoC or BotT until you DS again. Pretty much the damage lands before the BotT snare & MoC kicks in.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/EKNFf5I.jpg

Control Test #s
1--2
3--4
5--6
7
8

Rank 52 BotT = +30.6% damage

Control Test#1 = Basic Attack
Damage = 2180 = 100% wd

Control Test#2 = Basic Attack with BotT
Damage = 2847
2180*1.306= 2847
Conclusion = BotT works

Control Test#3 = DS without MoC
Damage = 8359

Control Test#4 = DS without MoC with BotT
Damage = 10916
8359*1.306=10917

Control Test#5 = DS with MoC
Damage = 9092

Control Test#6 = DS with MoC with BotT
Damage = 11874
9092*1.306=11874

Control Test#7 = Outside of BotT and MoC Range
Just showing the location of the player vs targets BEFORE dashing in

Control Test#8 = Damage of initial Dash into combat
Damage = 8359
Conclusion = Both BotT and MoC do not benefit the first dash into combat.

>_< It really doesn't do much for Greater Rifts, but does sort of affect T6 and speed farming where you are trying to one-shot everything. Though from personal experience, T6 is so easy now that this little issue really doesn't affect much. It just kind of means if you are really going super-fast BotT may only affect the RG.


I logged in just to say thank you, I have been experimenting with gems lately and did noticed what you concluded with BoTT. What would you say to replace BoTT with for Grifts setup?

Goguk and Esoteric seems to be a definite for me so far, what about pain enhancer? Would it be a decent replacement over BoTT in your opinion?
05/03/2015 08:05 PMPosted by Yuuram
I logged in just to say thank you, I have been experimenting with gems lately and did noticed what you concluded with BoTT. What would you say to replace BoTT with for Grifts setup?

I editted my post to clarify what I meant, BotT is still probably the #1 dps gem for Grifts, as you really shoulnd't replace it as your first dash into combat in GRs isn't really going to matter much in the big picture, it is T6 speed rifts where BotT can be replaced if you are truly speed clearing in one-shot city ^_^
05/03/2015 09:49 AMPosted by VII
This is really awesome stuff Davlok! Very comprehensive. Thanks for this!

Any chance that you might test out Zei's with Exploding palm? (Both its DOT and explosion damage)

Sure, I thought I had already done this, but apparently I didn't take a screenshot.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/rXDSsum.jpg

Control Test #s
1
2
3

Control Test#1 Repeat Zei + Tzo Test using R30 gem
Melee = 19,085
Ranged = 24,333
19085*1.275 = 24333
Conclusion = Zei works with Tzo & Explosive Light (dynamic)

Control Test#2 EP DoT Test using R30 Zei
Melee = 1544
Ranged = 1969
1544*1.275 = 1969
Conclusion = Zei works with EP DoT (dynamic)

Control Test#3,4,5 EP Explosion Test using R30 Zei
Melee = 49,809
Ranged = 60,850
@ 40 yards away = 49809*1.22 = 60767
Conclusion = Zei works with EP Explosion (dynamic)

So Zei's does work if you EP and then move to the next mob. Just make sure you still have some way to keep a BotT snare on the EPed mob as it detonates, and make sure you keep the Sunwuko buff up. ^_^
05/03/2015 09:01 PMPosted by Davlok
05/03/2015 09:49 AMPosted by VII
This is really awesome stuff Davlok! Very comprehensive. Thanks for this!

Any chance that you might test out Zei's with Exploding palm? (Both its DOT and explosion damage)

Sure, I thought I had already done this, but apparently I didn't take a screenshot.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/rXDSsum.jpg

Control Test #s
1
2
3

Control Test#1 Repeat Zei + Tzo Test using R30 gem
Melee = 19,085
Ranged = 24,333
19085*1.275 = 24333
Conclusion = Zei works with Tzo & Explosive Light (dynamic)

Control Test#2 EP DoT Test using R30 Zei
Melee = 1544
Ranged = 1969
1544*1.275 = 1969
Conclusion = Zei works with EP DoT (dynamic)

Control Test#3,4,5 EP Explosion Test using R30 Zei
Melee = 49,809
Ranged = 60,850
@ 40 yards away = 49809*1.22 = 60767
Conclusion = Zei works with EP Explosion (dynamic)

So Zei's does work if you EP and then move to the next mob. Just make sure you still have some way to keep a BotT snare on the EPed mob as it detonates, and make sure you keep the Sunwuko buff up. ^_^


Awesome! Thanks for this. My monk's rifting with EP/DS and I was wondering if Zei's would affect the chain explosions. This certainly clears things up :D
05/03/2015 09:38 PMPosted by VII
Awesome! Thanks for this. My monk's rifting with EP/DS and I was wondering if Zei's would affect the chain explosions. This certainly clears things up :D

Verify what attributes are used for chain explosions?

Main hand or Offhand of the EP that placed the original EP, or the MH/OH when Gungdo procs?
05/04/2015 03:23 AMPosted by Heisenberg
05/03/2015 09:38 PMPosted by VII
Awesome! Thanks for this. My monk's rifting with EP/DS and I was wondering if Zei's would affect the chain explosions. This certainly clears things up :D

Verify what attributes are used for chain explosions?

Main hand or Offhand of the EP that placed the original EP, or the MH/OH when Gungdo procs?


I use a FD so MH/OH is out of the equation. I was trying to verify whether Zei's would proc with the explosions that result from someone else killing the mob after I've applied EP moved on.

As for the resultant explosions after Gungdo procs, that something I'd like to know as well. I've done some preliminary testings of my own earlier today and it does seem like the mobs are exploding for more damage further away.. But I can't say for sure. Davelok might know.. or at least, the above testing does seem to have a slight indication that Zei's would proc with explosions occurring further away.

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