[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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05/24/2016 05:21 AMPosted by hong
What I'm talking about is: use Uli 2pc to cast* palm. One of them will have the MR buff on it. Then detonate with Uli 6pc. Will the MR-buffed EP spread to other targets? I'm guessing it will.

No it won't. You are just not understanding the main overwrite mechanic of EPs - you can't overwrite a normal EP with a MR-EP unless you apply it manually. So if you hit 5 monsters with U2, 1 will have a MR-EP and the other 4 will have a normal-EP. Hitting SSS doesn't transfer the 1x MR-EP to the 4x normal-EPs and overwrite it.

Plus even if you have no Area Damage affixes from gear, the +50% AD from paragon is still worth it.

05/24/2016 01:09 AMPosted by Bahamut
But another thing is BoH, its spammable (depends on definition of spam). there is alternative BoH build which abandon raiment set to equip Peshkov, so its pretty short cooldown (1-2s realistic including zodiac) and its very useful for.... transient boost like tanking explosive (molten/grotesque), electrified, anything that hurts alot.

Yea, that is why I included it in the list, but not sure what is worth replacing for BoH. Usually when I expect a large amount of incoming damage I Crippling Light just before and then spam CS.

1. For CDR & IAS, there is no caps, but there is certainly best and requirement.

Also curious on what folks value RCR with. I ended up with some rolls on my Istvan's and kept them to spam CS more heh.

Also, some stuff I learned while pugging 4p groups.
- d = drag
- s = skip
- p = pylon
- m = move
- t = take
- s = save
No it won't. You are just not understanding the main overwrite mechanic of EPs - you can't overwrite a normal EP with a MR-EP unless you apply it manually. So if you hit 5 monsters with U2, 1 will have a MR-EP and the other 4 will have a normal-EP. Hitting SSS doesn't transfer the 1x MR-EP to the 4x normal-EPs and overwrite it.


No, I get that. But what if those 5 monsters are in the middle of a huge pack? Presumably hitting SSS will spread the MR-EP to the rest of the pack along with the normal EPs. Would it be fair to assume that about 1/5th of the resulting EPs will have the MR buff, applied more or less randomly?

(Of course if it really is a huge pack, then the initial U2 hit will probably tag a lot more than 5 monsters and the proportion of MR-buffed EPs will go down accordingly.)
No it won't. You are just not understanding the main overwrite mechanic of EPs - you can't overwrite a normal EP with a MR-EP unless you apply it manually. So if you hit 5 monsters with U2, 1 will have a MR-EP and the other 4 will have a normal-EP. Hitting SSS doesn't transfer the 1x MR-EP to the 4x normal-EPs and overwrite it.

Plus even if you have no Area Damage affixes from gear, the +50% AD from paragon is still worth it.


The current U2 mechanics is just......... well, yeah ..
U2 bonus should really just be replaced with something like every 3'rd hit from generator reduces CDR os SSS by 1 sec.
That would give us a little more options for U6 besides CDR, CDR, CDR and CDR .... Oh wait, did I mention CDR ?
Davlok.

Is Inna's or Mystic Ally's bugged this season?

This isn't based on anything other than feel, but it seems to me that its far weaker than last season.
05/23/2016 04:10 PMPosted by Davlok
Soft Healing Caps per second - max +globes/+LoH @5APS
- Epiphany: Soothing Mist = ~290k HP/s


Hey, have you calculated same figures but without +globes as well? I'm trying to understand how important this stat is, turns out I have almost zero on my gear :(

For Soothing Mist looks like around 25% difference between no +globes and +globes on armor slots (+114k globes -> +11.4 bonus to +40k on Soothing Mist).
05/24/2016 08:01 AMPosted by Eyan
Davlok.

Is Inna's or Mystic Ally's bugged this season?

This isn't based on anything other than feel, but it seems to me that its far weaker than last season.


Inna didn't get a buff, unlike most of the other sets. So relatively speaking, it'll be in a weaker position than before.
05/24/2016 09:35 AMPosted by hong
Inna didn't get a buff, unlike most of the other sets. So relatively speaking, it'll be in a weaker position than before.

Didn't get nerfed either though.
05/23/2016 04:10 PMPosted by Davlok
- Gem of Efficacious Toxin - 2.4.1 added an additional -10% damage reduction in addition to +10% additive damage.


Afaik in patch 2.4.1 also 10% additive damage debuff was changed to multiplicative. Wasn't it?
05/24/2016 09:32 AMPosted by Xerideya

Hey, have you calculated same figures but without +globes as well? I'm trying to understand how important this stat is, turns out I have almost zero on my gear :(

For Soothing Mist looks like around 25% difference between no +globes and +globes on armor slots (+114k globes -> +11.4 bonus to +40k on Soothing Mist).

If I'm not mistaken, perfect stat will have 33% improvement, so realistic figure would be 25-30% better healing, which means essential for GR 100+. Will lower GR height for wiz not that good (in def)

PS: Its 230k maximum globe bonus with dual wield, even more with shield.

*I got 170+k of globe
05/24/2016 06:19 AMPosted by hong
No it won't. You are just not understanding the main overwrite mechanic of EPs - you can't overwrite a normal EP with a MR-EP unless you apply it manually. So if you hit 5 monsters with U2, 1 will have a MR-EP and the other 4 will have a normal-EP. Hitting SSS doesn't transfer the 1x MR-EP to the 4x normal-EPs and overwrite it.


No, I get that. But what if those 5 monsters are in the middle of a huge pack? Presumably hitting SSS will spread the MR-EP to the rest of the pack along with the normal EPs. Would it be fair to assume that about 1/5th of the resulting EPs will have the MR buff, applied more or less randomly?

(Of course if it really is a huge pack, then the initial U2 hit will probably tag a lot more than 5 monsters and the proportion of MR-buffed EPs will go down accordingly.)


Yes, it works exactly as you said. I don't know why you keep going on about this though, that's what you don't want to do.
Davlok,

For our generator CW for soothing most ICD misalignment, can we say that using R2+alacrity (@5aps) will have lowest lost of healing power, does ~86% means the efficiency is only 86%? (eg: 40k healing proc means: 5 * 0.86 * 40k = healing per second)

Except for using skill like CS which have 1/aps, any other solution to raise the efficiency (or decrease misalignment)?
05/26/2016 07:09 AMPosted by Kajean
Yes, it works exactly as you said. I don't know why you keep going on about this though, that's what you don't want to do.


Thank you. Let me worry about what I want to do.
05/24/2016 06:19 AMPosted by hong
No it won't. You are just not understanding the main overwrite mechanic of EPs - you can't overwrite a normal EP with a MR-EP unless you apply it manually. So if you hit 5 monsters with U2, 1 will have a MR-EP and the other 4 will have a normal-EP. Hitting SSS doesn't transfer the 1x MR-EP to the 4x normal-EPs and overwrite it.


No, I get that. But what if those 5 monsters are in the middle of a huge pack? Presumably hitting SSS will spread the MR-EP to the rest of the pack along with the normal EPs. Would it be fair to assume that about 1/5th of the resulting EPs will have the MR buff, applied more or less randomly?

(Of course if it really is a huge pack, then the initial U2 hit will probably tag a lot more than 5 monsters and the proportion of MR-buffed EPs will go down accordingly.)


If your SSS hits the target with the MR buffed EP (which does not have area damage if procced from U2 btw) then that MR EP will spread to everything in the blast radius except for any other target with a non-MR EP from the initial U2 application. If your SSS hits one of the non-MR EP's then that non-MR EP gets spread. Hoping that your SSS hits the correct target first is a pretty risky proposition if you ask me. It is just better to get the MR buff and move to density and apply EP to be spread via SSS and once everything has a copy of that manually applied EP (which is MR buffed and has area damage) then you build up Assimilation stacks and watch things go BOOM!
05/24/2016 08:01 AMPosted by Eyan
Davlok.

Is Inna's or Mystic Ally's bugged this season?

This isn't based on anything other than feel, but it seems to me that its far weaker than last season.

I didn't see anything major different the short time I played Inna till Stash+1.

05/24/2016 10:56 PMPosted by Mazarini
Afaik in patch 2.4.1 also 10% additive damage debuff was changed to multiplicative. Wasn't it?

Not that I know of. The damage debuff additive with other Toxin gems. Not sure if the damage reduction that was added in 2.4.1 stacks with multiple gems however.

05/25/2016 04:20 AMPosted by Bahamut
If I'm not mistaken, perfect stat will have 33% improvement, so realistic figure would be 25-30% better healing, which means essential for GR 100+. Will lower GR height for wiz not that good (in def)

PS: Its 230k maximum globe bonus with dual wield, even more with shield.

*I got 170+k of globe

Totally messed up on the max globes calc, forgot to check the "ancient" item box when looking up values on d3maxstats. Ancients can be 30% higher it seems, so I have updated the values in the post. (max 231,750 DW, 270,375 S&B)

05/28/2016 03:13 AMPosted by Bahamut
Davlok,

For our generator CW for soothing most ICD misalignment, can we say that using R2+alacrity (@5aps) will have lowest lost of healing power, does ~86% means the efficiency is only 86%? (eg: 40k healing proc means: 5 * 0.86 * 40k = healing per second)

Except for using skill like CS which have 1/aps, any other solution to raise the efficiency (or decrease misalignment)?

The efficiency % is just a estimate. So for example if you were to somehow be at 5 APS for an hour just spamming CS, you'd cast Cyclone Strike 18,000 times and heal 18,000 times with soothing mist. But if instead if you just attacked with Crippling Wave for that same hour @ 5APS with R2+Alacrity, you'd get off 30,857 attacks off, but only 15,480 Soothing Mist heals (this is where the 86% comes from). Of course, if you spam Mantra at the same time, it would probably be slightly higher %. As far as I'm aware nothing will heal at a higher efficiency than casting CS:Soothing Breeze, but it will have lower FD proc uptime which is hard to quantify.

Hope that makes more sense ^_^
Thanks, davlok. I guess R2+alacrity still best way to go due to that healing from gen hitting. Its ~86%, so its quite significant compare to without those 2.

Did you try out the ICD of CS on multiplayer? I notice the animation is different than actual healing on your own ( no icd)
Hi guys, been searching around for some Monk mechanics and found this thread.

Wonder if someone can point me towards a gen Monk mechanics discussion, using LON and Thorns? Idea just hit me today and I've been wondering whether something like this would be workable.

The basic idea is max Thorns, dual-wield Hack/SK (or Hack/Doombringer), FD in cube, HOI in cube, COE in cube, and spec for high CDR and LPH on gear, similar to Thorns Barb.

I know very little about the Monk class but here are my calcs so far.

Monk Thorns calculation

Assume Max Thorns rolls in every slot

96,000 (rank 100 Boyarsky)
38,000 x 2 (2x Topaz in weapons)
9,500 x 4 (Thorns rolls on the 'big' slots - Shoulders, Chest, Amulet, Belt)
3,500 x 7 (Thorns rolls on the 'small' slots - Rings Helm, Gloves, Bracers, Pants, Boots)
= 243,950

Heart of Iron: assume 6k Vit = 18,000

Total Thorns: 261,950

Damage buffs:

(a) Assume 16,000 Dex on all slots (including augments) = 161x

(b) LON: 14x

(c) Elemental bonus: 60% phys (neck, bracers and Swamp Land Waders) = 1.6x

(d) Bane of the Trapped (rank 100) = 1.45x

(e) Inner Sanctuary = 1.3x

(e) DIBS (Deadly Reach, Blinding Flash, Breath of Heaven - there may be better options, please feel free to input if this number can go higher): 54% = 1.54x

(f) Sunkeeper: 30% elite damage = 1.3x (to elites)

Total Damage per hit: 2,742,359,411.79 (3,565,067,235.32 to elites)

Assume 10APS with Flying Dragon, Alacrity, etc, Total DPS is approx 27.42B (35.65B on elites).

This is just a paperdoll theory. Unfortunately as I main Barb I don't have the necessary monk gear to test it out and I'd be grateful if someone could comment on the above. Not looking to create an end-game build (but it would be cool if it were).

Some further thoughts on the build concept:

- Toughness and healing are able to exceed Thorns Barb (Thorns Barb has 3 main sources of DR: LON, perma Ignore Pain, and Aquila's, whereas Thorns Monk has LON, Aquila's, IS, Spirit Guards and LeFebrev's). So in theory at least it looks pretty tanky.

- Monks don't have a Thorns passive but bring to the table high APS with FD, Alacrity, DW, Radiance, etc. 1 or 2 rolls of AS might be needed on gear to cap out 5 APS per hand, which is less intensive as compared to Barb to hit similar AS breakpoints.

- I don't know the mechanics behind Dodge and Thorns.... if someone can point me to a discussion on this interaction (if there is any) I'd be grateful!

Lastly, as I mentioned, I'm not very familiar with the Monk class so I'd appreciate not-so-scorching criticisms if there are any. In this regard, please, no insults.

Thanks for looking and hope to generate some discussion on my idea :)

/Conquistador
07/05/2016 04:30 AMPosted by Conquistador
Hi guys, been searching around for some Monk mechanics and found this thread.

Wonder if someone can point me towards a gen Monk mechanics discussion, using LON and Thorns? Idea just hit me today and I've been wondering whether something like this would be workable.

The basic idea is max Thorns, dual-wield Hack/SK (or Hack/Doombringer), FD in cube, HOI in cube, COE in cube, and spec for high CDR and LPH on gear, similar to Thorns Barb.


Hi Conquistador, I'd definitely copy your character to PTR and burn all your resources to test for yourself! Fists of Thunder's first two punches only hit a single target, so maybe Wind Blast would be the rune to try out first. As far as I'm aware, dodging doesn't proc thorns, and Hack/SV still don't proc area damage. I do remember testing Fists of Fury on PTR when Boyarsky's Chip was introduced primarily wondering if FoF's DoT would apply Hack every tick and on every enemy with the DoT (It does neither).... and thus ended my brief look into a Thorns Monk.... but I do remember when someone asked me in my spirit generator thread how good static charge was and I was all like "Dude, it sucks" and then the whole duo-gen thing happened ^_^;

You could pioneer that new 2.4.2 Season 7 Healythorns monk that burns RGs and keeps the party alive!
What advantage does monk have over wizard with their 3k tals bonus + Fragment/shame/FnR/Audacity?

Comparable APS. Astronomically higher multiplier for wizard.

If it ain't happening for wiz, I can't see it happening for monk.
Monk and wiz thorns where viable in last ptr when AD procked the Hack proc :D

Had some fun with Shenlongs +FoF
And on wiz with Spectral blade on talrasha

But thorns it will not work on monk how ever decently enough, and monks have primaries build that actually works compared to barbs or rest classes

But like was pointed out if want to try thorns is only with:
07/06/2016 05:40 AMPosted by Davlok
Fists of Thunder's first two punches only hit a single target

but dont use the AOE runes, that AOE defeats the point in focusing main damage where u want first of all)and building stricken stacks) like on elites first

Could use also the inna set and not only LON; but ofc Inna that will involve in its alys and that will screw up the thorns system
07/05/2016 04:30 AMPosted by Conquistador
(e) Inner Sanctuary = 1.3x

Kill this they did.

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