[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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Did some random Convention of the Elements Testing this weekend and then added on some Sunwuko buff & BotT test just incase. ^_^

Screenshot of Testing #1 = http://i.imgur.com/NXQk9RW.jpg

Control Test #s
1--2
3-4-5
6--7
8--9

Items used shown in upper right of screenshot
+39% Physical from SoJ/Hellfire
185% Convention of Elements used

Control Test#1 = EP:FiW DoT with non-physical CoE Buff
EP Tic = 316

Control Test#2 = EP:FiW DoT with Physical CoE Buff
EP Tic = 899
316 * 2.85 = 900
Conclusion = Convention of Elements is Multiplicative and NOT additive with element. o_O

Control Test#3,4,5 = FiW DoT with Lightning>Earth>Cold CoE buffs
EP Tic = 173
EP Tic = 493
EP Tic = 173
173 * 2.85 = 493
Conclusion = CoE is dynamic and does NOT snapshot. >_<

Control Test#6 = Sunwuko EP DoT with buff
Damage = 49,074

Control Test#7 = EP DoT 3 seconds after #6
Damage = 8179
8179 * 6 = 49,074
Conclusion = Sunwuko buff is dynamic and does NOT snapshot.

Control Test#8 = EP DoT with BotT at application
Damage = 2543

Control Test#9 = EP DoT after moving out of BotT Snare
Damage = 2051
2051 * 1.24 = 2543
Conclusion = BotT is dynamic and does NOT snapshot

Summary
BotT, Zei, Sunwuko, and CoE are all dynamic buffs that don't snapshot. Also confirmed that Convention of Elements is MULTIPLICATIVE with everything else including your current +% element. So if you had +60% Fire, +200% CoE, your net damage wouldn't just be +260% it would be +380% damage. ^_^

Of course Monks having 5 elements to rotate vs 4 for most other classes is kind of lame. I was hoping that CoE would both snapshot on EP application, but alas, that is not the case.
I got a question to test, in the same way it was confirmed that freeze is considered a stun for APD, will freeze interact with the effects of dovu energy trap and haunt of vaxo as "stuns"
05/06/2015 06:12 PMPosted by Blackglitch
I got a question to test, in the same way it was confirmed that freeze is considered a stun for APD, will freeze interact with the effects of dovu energy trap and haunt of vaxo as "stuns"


No. Dovu is stun only. I've tested freeze durations on a few skills over the last 6 mo. Dovu has no effect. My most recent test was a few days ago on Frost Nova: Cold Snap, which I'm sure I tested before and just forgot.

I am not sure on vaxo. But, that's really easy to test!
05/06/2015 09:55 PMPosted by Vox
I am not sure on vaxo. But, that's really easy to test!


I can answer that: haunt of vaxo proc is only affected by stun effects too.
05/06/2015 06:12 PMPosted by Blackglitch
I got a question to test, in the same way it was confirmed that freeze is considered a stun for APD, will freeze interact with the effects of dovu energy trap and haunt of vaxo as "stuns"

As Vox/Nisciunu have pointed out, APD is it's own special snowflake regarding proccing off Freeze effects, and Dovu and Vaxo both only proc off stuns. I prefer using secondary % chance on hit to stun affix on gloves or weapon to proc Vaxo.

Vaxo/Dovu was designed before they decided to replace a bunch of runes' stun effects with freeze effects, so maybe someday they will allow it to proc off more sources ^_^
05/13/2015 09:25 AMPosted by Pri
1) What is the exact range of the dashing strike AOE in in-game yards?


05/13/2015 09:25 AMPosted by Pri
2) Is there a difference in hitboxes/AOE size for the different runes of DS or are they all of the same?


Please, I'm curious as well - there seems to be no info regarding the radius of the hitbox, at least my hours of looking for one drew up nothing.
As requested, did some testing on Dashing Strike's Hitbox last night, using the brawling arena to find a target that would stand in place. (wtb: test dummy) I see no indication different DS runes having any different hitboxes either. (Barrage just hits the enemy hit).

Screenshot of Testing #1 = http://i.imgur.com/S6slOx1.jpg

Control Test #s
1
2

Control Test#1
Established 15 yard Range using BotT's secondary by dashing a step at a time forward until the snare activated for a Reference 15 Yards shown as a red dotted line.

Control Test#2
Determined DS's range by dashing one step forward until damage appeared. Measured circle was ~66% the radius of BotT's circle.

Conclusion = DS has a hit radius of ~10 yards

Of course the other issue I feel many players are having landing hits is that folks seem to forget this isn't a 2D game. Hitboxes are circles at the BASE of your target, and attacks like DS are calculated at your base as well. So even though your fist is hitting the target, it's really your feet that matter. #isometriclife.

The next test is to show how the graphics combined with an isometric view can be a bit misleading as far as when you hit or miss a target.

Screenshot of Testing #2 = http://i.imgur.com/rlCyNxm.jpg

Control Test #s
3
4
5
6

Control Test#3
Showing the limit of how Windforce Flurry HITS a target aiming 'above' the target.

Control Test#4
Showing the limit of how Windforce Flurry MISSES a target aiming 'above' the target.

Control Test#5
Showing the limit of how Windforce Flurry HITS a target aiming 'below' the target.

Control Test#6
Showing the limit of how Windforce Flurry MISSES a target aiming 'below' the target.

Conclusion & Summary
Hitboxes are at the base of the character / projectile, aim your cursor at the BASE of your target. Dashing Strike's new cast speed, teleport mechanics, and 10yd radius hitbox all work together to make R6 semi-annoying to use and get that satisfying hit/crit feedback ^_^;
Weird, I thought it was alot smaller, like 5yd was being generous, that was going off of that old picture of the DH with the yards and potions around'em.

Oh well. TY Davlok :D
Thank you so much for organizing and testing all of this! I'm not exactly a pro, but I did some testing and wondered if you had any thoughts. I was curious about Sweeping Wind and the new Broken Promises ring. It looks like SW will proc Broken Promises (exciting!) and actually increase the damage of SW for those three seconds, but SW crit damage numbers never show as yellow. Is that because crits from SW cannot increase the attacks of SW? When Broken Promises is active (100% crit chance), does the damage of SW increase by your full crit damage amount?
05/13/2015 11:53 AMPosted by Xuen
Please, I'm curious as well - there seems to be no info regarding the radius of the hitbox, at least my hours of looking for one drew up nothing.


05/14/2015 05:56 AMPosted by Davlok
As requested, did some testing on Dashing Strike's Hitbox last night, using the brawling arena to find a target that would stand in place.


I would like to extend a personal thank you and HOORAH from your fellow barb bros!!

Thanks for testing this with such diligence/scientific method. Excellent approach and the explanation of the hit box was spot on.

I really appreciate the the time you took to perform these tests.

Great information to know.

The isometric hitbox has always been a difficult animal to get used to in most games that I play like this.

Back to dashing...or mis-dashing lol!
Davlok, can I ask you re-check some measurements (trail part of http://eu.battle.net/d3/ru/forum/topic/14213191789?page=2#39 ) about MoS/Agility + Inna2?
In short:
  • Plain allres + Inna2 = 449
  • MoS/No Rune + Inna2 = 628 OK: 449*1.4
  • MoS/Agility + Inna2 = 718 NOT OK: 449*1.6
  • 05/14/2015 09:35 AMPosted by Blake
    When Broken Promises is active (100% crit chance), does the damage of SW increase by your full crit damage amount?


    Short answer: Yes. Sweeping Wind ticks twice a second regardless of attack speed, and that's because the game actually considers it a “continuous damage over time” spell, which means the game engine calculates SW damage upwards of 60+ times a second. So instead of displaying all those numbers in a cascade of numbers (like Borderlands) Diablo 3 actually just "batches up" up all those tiny numbers and displays it as a single number twice a second for SW. Each tick never appears as a crit, but in reality actually contains any number of mini-crits. So SW's damage does benefit from all your stats: crit/cd/ias/etc.

    But Sweeping Wind is one of those wonky D3 mechanics that has changed quite a bit since vanilla (snapshotting, et al) but has mostly been used for it's side effects like Taeguk, spirit regen, or I like you want to: Broken Promises. All that to say.. Broken Promises used to count each mini-tick back on 2.2 PTR even during the 100% crit phase. That made it way too good, and it was toned down across almost all classes. The quick test on live seems to indicate that each SW tick *can* count as a single BP "attack", but difficult to determine the exact mechanics due to the "batching" the game does. My guess is that each tick displayed is counted as a crit if > 50% of the mini-ticks the game sums up are crits. So BP's crit up time goes down when in combat with multiple enemies compared to a single one. Not sure that helped, but just my thoughts ^_^

    05/14/2015 11:46 AMPosted by Pri
    I really appreciate the the time you took to perform these tests.

    Great information to know.

    The isometric hitbox has always been a difficult animal to get used to in most games that I play like this.

    No problem! I like to figure out monk mechanics, especially if I'm also having trouble using them to my satisfaction.

    05/14/2015 01:47 PMPosted by LazyBadger
    Davlok, can I ask you re-check some measurements (trail part of http://eu.battle.net/d3/ru/forum/topic/14213191789?page=2#39 ) about MoS/Agility + Inna2?
    In short:
  • Plain allres + Inna2 = 449
  • MoS/No Rune + Inna2 = 628 OK: 449*1.4
  • MoS/Agility + Inna2 = 718 NOT OK: 449*1.6

  • Google translate didn't help too much, but I assume you are meaning MoS:Perseverance not getting the 2x multiplier of Inna's 2pc? I can confirm that Perseverance's 40% all resistance bonus isn't doubled, so instead you see the 40%+20% = 60% bonus. I'm not so sure it would be a bug, or if they just felt like Mantra of Healing: Sustenance was extra special to get doubled.
    05/14/2015 09:35 AMPosted by Blake
    When Broken Promises is active (100% crit chance), does the damage of SW increase by your full crit damage amount?


    Short answer: Yes. Sweeping Wind ticks twice a second regardless of attack speed, and that's because the game actually considers it a “continuous damage over time” spell, which means the game engine calculates SW damage upwards of 60+ times a second. So instead of displaying all those numbers in a cascade of numbers (like Borderlands) Diablo 3 actually just "batches up" up all those tiny numbers and displays it as a single number twice a second for SW. Each tick never appears as a crit, but in reality actually contains any number of mini-crits. So SW's damage does benefit from all your stats: crit/cd/ias/etc.

    But Sweeping Wind is one of those wonky D3 mechanics that has changed quite a bit since vanilla (snapshotting, et al) but has mostly been used for it's side effects like Taeguk, spirit regen, or I like you want to: Broken Promises. All that to say.. Broken Promises used to count each mini-tick back on 2.2 PTR even during the 100% crit phase. That made it way too good, and it was toned down across almost all classes. The quick test on live seems to indicate that each SW tick *can* count as a single BP "attack", but difficult to determine the exact mechanics due to the "batching" the game does. My guess is that each tick displayed is counted as a crit if > 50% of the mini-ticks the game sums up are crits. So BP's crit up time goes down when in combat with multiple enemies compared to a single one. Not sure that helped, but just my thoughts ^_^


    That did help. It helped my enthusiasm wane for a Sweeping Wind generator build with R2 and the shiny, new 2.9k DPS Ancient Vengeful Wind I just got. Thank you Davlok. ;)

    I was thinking Vengeful Wind and either Sledgefist or Fulminator (both of which I have good ancients), 2 piece Raiments, Depth Diggers, 4p Innas or assorted other legendaries/sets, Broken Promises, Convention of Elements. For skills: SW: Blade Storm, FoT: Bounding Light or WotHF: Fists of Fury, CS: Wall of Wind (for the freeze), maybe EP: The Flesh is Weak, and either a mantra, Mystic Ally, BoH, IS, or Serenety. Prioritize Critical Damage, IAS, and defensive stats (let BP cover all Crit Chance). Convention of Elements would add the extra damage lost from not using Bastions of Will rings.
    05/15/2015 06:01 AMPosted by Davlok
    Google translate didn't help too much, but I assume you are meaning MoS:Perseverance not getting the 2x multiplier of Inna's 2pc?

    Oops, sorry, I wrote incorrect rune in my note. Yes, I asked about 60% summary bonus of MoS:Perseverance (not :Agility), and thank you for confirmation
    Since there seems to be some renewed discussion on using Broken Promises, re-piqued my interest in testing it since my last conclusion from PTR was that it wasn't that great ( http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/11882328396?page=12#226 ).

    Nubtro confirmed a 0.25 ICD (15 frames) on Live servers, and that essentially makes the ring even worse than expected, since it negates any build trying to proc BP using multiple skills concurrently like SW + TR at the same time. Using both ends up being actually WORSE than just using one, since crits during the ICD still reset the counter. >_<

    Updated the list of Monk skills with the new info.

    Single Target
    5 non-critical "attacks" are required for Broken Promises to proc.
    ALL enemies hit in the AoE will have to be non-crits (and still only count as a single attack by BP).
    Test = how many "attacks" each "cast" of a Monk skill counts towards the BP's 5 consecutive (may have APS limits).


    For Each CAST of a skill, BP counts...
    WoL: Pillar of the Ancients: 6 attacks total (independent of APS)
    WoL: Shattering Light = 3-4 attacks (below 1.34 APS)
    WoL: WoL/EW = 3 attacks (below 1.34 APS)
    TR = each tick counts (below 1.34 APS)
    Seven Sided Strike = 4 attacks (independent of APS) (But 7 opportunities to CRIT (bad))
    Unwelcome Disturbance = 3 attacks over time (independent of APS)
    Sweeping Wind = each tick counts (independent of APS)
    EP, DS, CS, basic attack = 1 attack (below 3.9 APS)
    WotHF 2nd Strike = 2 attacks (below 2.4 APS)(But 7-10 opportunities to CRIT (bad))
    All other generator strikes = 1 attacks (below ~2.5 APS - varies per generator)
    FoF/VCK DoT application & Submission = 0 attacks.

    So Multi-hit WoL runes need to be under 1.34 APS to be able to count as 3 attacks (since each component of the WoL is considered an attack by BP as long as you're under the APS limit). Pillar actually only has 6 (not 7) attacks, since the first DoT tick occurs at the same time as the initial hit. The POTA DoTs always occur every half second (like SW). Problem with Pillar is that those 5 'extra' attacks occur over 2.5 seconds, and since you will likely be casting Pillar faster than every 2.5 seconds, you end up reducing your chance to obtain 5 consecutive since a lot of the attacks will occur while BP is ICDin. I'm sure that made sense to someone.

    Another issue is that Seven Sided Strike actually hits 7 times, and thus has 7 opportunities to crit vs only 4 opportunities to not-crit for BP due to the ICD. The same issue for Way of the Hundred Fist's second strike having 7 opportunities to crit vs max 2 opportunities to not-crit. It's even worse for Hands of Lightning with 10 crit opportunities.

    Side note: when I say "below 1.34 APS" it's actually below 1.33333 repeating APS. So some values of 1.33 in-game will be above 1.33333333 and not get you to the correct frames. So to be safe, just be above 1.25 APS and below 1.33. Saying "below 1.34" is just a catch-all. (game only displays 2 decimals >_>)

    ps - Monk is going to have a SSS skill in Heroes of the Storm #awesome
    06/17/2015 06:46 AMPosted by Davlok
    ps - Monk is going to have a SSS skill in Heroes of the Storm #awesome


    :D
    D:
    I feel like diablo is being overlooked for their new potential cash cow. Again thanks for the valuable information.
    If crowd control becomes less effective, maybe damage sharing will become important. For a monk running Serenity: Tranquility, I have a few questions for the Testing Shack.

    1) Does the redirected damage retain its elemental type. In other words, does the appropriate immunity amulet on the monk mitigate the redirected damage from an ally?
    2) Does the moratorium gem turn the redirected damage into a DOT?
    3) Does the redirected damage trigger "when enemies hit you" effects, such as the Sankis legendary power? Any effects of a Mantra of Retribution triggered?

    (Note: I did some testing of the Crusader skill Laws of Hope: Protect the Innocent if you want to compare the mechanics. The video is at this link

    http://youtu.be/6jNLQBKqoqs

    and I activate the Law at 0:36, 0:54, 1:34, letting poor Kormac be my source of damage redirection. I couldn't block the redirected damage and it didn't trigger thorns effects.)
    06/17/2015 06:46 AMPosted by Davlok
    FoF/VCK DoT application & Submission = 0 attacks.


    Submission would've been so tiiiiight

    I dont get it I thought I commented on this thread yesterday but I dont see any of it

    BP is useful for specific skills and set ups..

    But take into consideration it is a period of 3 seconds that you are criting, some skills are used for generation or crowd control not necessarily damage.

    This allows for::

    Would you rather have 50% Crit on every primary strike and 50% chc on Dashing strike or 5% chc on every primary strike and 70% chc on Dashing strike?

    With as much resource reduc as we use we can dump several DS's in a row or even better on active FD we can gen and dump several in a 3 second period.

    05/15/2015 06:01 AMPosted by Davlok
    MoS:Perseverance not getting the 2x multiplier of Inna's 2pc? I can confirm that Perseverance's 40% all resistance bonus isn't doubled, so instead you see the 40%+20% = 60% bonus. I'm not so sure it would be a bug, or if they just felt like Mantra of Healing: Sustenance was extra special to get doubled.


    Innas "increases the base effect of the mantra"

    I dont think that overawe's effect is doubled because it changes the base damage outgoing, but I'm sure there's someone that could test that. It would be a lot cooler if it took runes into consideration.
    Okay thats mega whack that Im sittin on my sader and COE goes Fire, holy, lightning, phys...reset but there are cold skills on sader.. why does monk have to wait an extra 33% longer to get back to their element.. math - 4 4 4 + 4 = 33% more. Vote Phys out!

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