[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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06/18/2015 06:19 AMPosted by Blimpy
If crowd control becomes less effective, maybe damage sharing will become important. For a monk running Serenity: Tranquility, I have a few questions for the Testing Shack.

1) Does the redirected damage retain its elemental type. In other words, does the appropriate immunity amulet on the monk mitigate the redirected damage from an ally?
2) Does the moratorium gem turn the redirected damage into a DOT?
3) Does the redirected damage trigger "when enemies hit you" effects, such as the Sankis legendary power? Any effects of a Mantra of Retribution triggered?

Unfortunately, I can't really test party mechanics by myself, but interesting idea. With max globes and 75% CDR, your party would have a shield able to absorb ~300k damage over 3 seconds at around ~43% uptime (4 secs of no shield).

I'm not so sure your questions really need testing to verify, as Serenity makes you take 0 damage, so any damage transferred to you = 0. Your mitigation doesn't affect the damage your party takes to their Tranquility Shield either, so you being immune doesn't make your allies immune.

So:
1) No, your mitigation doesn't transfer. (you will be taking 0 damage from all elements anyways)
2) No, because you will be taking 0 damage.
3) No, at least not for the monk.

06/18/2015 08:26 AMPosted by Darth
Okay thats mega whack that Im sittin on my sader and COE goes Fire, holy, lightning, phys...reset but there are cold skills on sader.. why does monk have to wait an extra 33% longer to get back to their element.. math - 4 4 4 + 4 = 33% more. Vote Phys out!

Can't vote physical out, our basic attack is physical. ^_^
Well it aint gonna be cold and it aint gonna be holy! so whats less monk Fire or Lightning.. well this certainly isnt goin anywhere.. Touchee devs touchee

Tbh Cold would be the historically non monk
06/18/2015 05:48 PMPosted by Darth
Well it aint gonna be cold and it aint gonna be holy! so whats less monk Fire or Lightning.. well this certainly isnt goin anywhere.. Touchee devs touchee

Tbh Cold would be the historically non monk


I think the worry is that our most reliable CC skills are cold
I suppose if you're intent on using CoE, then you could get all new gear and not worry about re-rolling the type of damage dealt and instead roll something else. Also, same goes for runes. Pick whatever rune you want for each skill with no regard for the type of elemental damage it does.

Just a thought.
I'm not so sure your questions really need testing to verify, as Serenity makes you take 0 damage, so any damage transferred to you = 0.


[facepalm] I read the rune as the monk gives up their shield so that allies get shields. I tested it and you are right. (Not sure why the damage needs to be specified as being re-directed to the monk, then. Oh well.)

I appreciate your patient response.
Does SSS alternate weapon damage for a DW set-up? DH Rain of Vengeance doesn't. I'd like to know if SSS does. Thanks!
Some random Uliana, SSS, EP mechanics testing. I don't have access to a Lion's Claw so no confirmation for that >_<

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/NYH4XGG.jpg

Control Test #s
--1--
2--3
--4--
-5-6-

Control Test#1 = Basic Attack
Basic Attack Damage = 2617 = 100% wd

Control Test#2 = U6 with Gungdo, without FOA
SSS Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 56.77 x 1.29 = 657,364.8
EP Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 27.7 x 1.14 = 283,453.9
Conclusion
SSS & EP with U6 does correct damage (7x7)
U6 EP explosions hit the target it is applied to.

Control Test#3 = U6 with Gungdo with FOA
SSS Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 56.77 x 1.29 = 657,364.8
EP Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 27.7 x 1.14 = 283,453.9 x 2 = 566,907.8
Conclusion
FOA works with EP from U6.

Control Test#4 = DW with shown weapons
Alternating 107,853 & 11,631 damage
Conclusion
SSS alternates weapons.

Control Test#5 = U6 with Madstone
SSS Damage = 144,470
EP Damage = 62,295

Control Test#6 = U6 with Madstone with MR Buff
SSS Damage = 144,470*1.4 = 202,258
EP Damage = 62,295*1.4 = 87,213
Conclusion
Mythic Rhythm does work on ALL hits from SSS, but does not affect the EP applied. (edit: MR did not work on U2's EP because the test was done with only MR buff and no EP active)

Summary
SSS alternates weapons when DW.
EP's applied by Madstone are detonated immediately. Gungdo detonated EPs also hit the target it detonated from. (ie - it refreshes itself)
EP's detonated with Gungdo equipped also hit the EP target (and reapplies EP)
MR works with all SSS hits, but not with EP applied by SSS
FOA works with U6 even if monster doesn't "die".

Addendum: MR sort of works with U2. In that it "consumes" MR if there are none of the targets hit have EP on them. If there are more than 1 target hit without EP, then MR is consumed and only one of the targets get a MR buffed EP. If no targets get a "new" EP, MR is not "consumed" by U2. So if you want to snapshot the MR buff, you essentially need to applyl it MANUALLY, or engage combat with a single enemy to make sure U2's EP is MRed. Then use Gungdo to spread the MR buffed EP indefinitely. (keep dragging an EP mob around the rift). Overall MR is a very good offensive passive for U6.

Dynamic buffs like Zei, BotT, Sunwuko 4pc, CoE, BP, etc are checked at the time the EP explodes, the actual weapon (MH/OH) +% damage (Assimilation, Faith in the Light, etc), Elemental, Elite, MR, etc are snapshot at the time of EP application.
thank you so much

07/19/2015 06:59 PMPosted by Davlok
MR works with all SSS hits, but not with EP applied by SSS
07/19/2015 06:59 PMPosted by Davlok
SSS alternates weapons when DW.

Thank you Davlok. :)

07/19/2015 06:59 PMPosted by Davlok
EP's applied by Madstone are detonated immediately.

So after the EP's are triggered immediately, the mobs no longer have the EP debuff unless you have Gungdo equipped as well, right?
07/19/2015 06:59 PMPosted by Davlok
ontrol Test#2 = U6 with Gungdo, without FOA
SSS Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 56.77 x 1.29 = 657,364.8
EP Crit = 2617 x 3.43 x 27.7 x 1.14 = 283,453.9


what are those numbers?
the 56.77
and 27.7

also SS will always kinda make explode 1 EP only from one enemy kinda the SS hits only 1 target at time right?

but what happens wen you use the AOE rune last one that can hit more then just 1 target if they are close enough and all the target hit by the aoe...can they all same time proc their one EP?
07/20/2015 12:53 AMPosted by Ichijoji
So after the EP's are triggered immediately, the mobs no longer have the EP debuff unless you have Gungdo equipped as well, right?

Yep.With just Madstone active, your SSS will apply and detonate 7 EPs, but no EPs would remain after SSS ended. With Gungdo, you would need to apply EP beforehand and as long as the first SSS strike hit an enemy with EP, would be able to spread EP to every enemy within EP detonation range including the primary target hit. So with Gungdo, you should see all enemies remaining with EP.

07/20/2015 05:22 PMPosted by Enoone
what are those numbers?
the 56.77
and 27.7

also SS will always kinda make explode 1 EP only from one enemy kinda the SS hits only 1 target at time right?

but what happens wen you use the AOE rune last one that can hit more then just 1 target if they are close enough and all the target hit by the aoe...can they all same time proc their one EP?

The 56.77 and 27.7 are just the multipliers for using SSS:Sudden Assault with U6 and an unruned EP (5677% & 2770% weapon damage) since I ise a basic attack = 100% WD as a reference to confirm damage.

Fulminating Onslaught only detonates one EP, but the damage it does (6139%) per strike with U6 DOES hit in as a small AoE.
07/22/2015 08:21 AMPosted by Davlok
Fulminating Onslaught only detonates one EP, but the damage it does (5677%) per strike with U6 DOES hit in as a small AoE.


I have not so thankfully been recently reminded of how "fun" this build is without a Flow of Eternity.. that's even with Sudden Assault.

The only way anyone would ever want to Fulm Onslaught (which has less damage than the other runes I thought it got nerfed a couple patches ago) .. is if maybe they were using Pure gen + Uli 4 ..
or Uli 4 + SwK mb??

Edit: Just checked skill calculator 877% is what its saying.. which is 6139% per hit, but I assume that Dav may be saying that the 877% is a holy AoE that isnt part of the SSS strike?? mb?? it does say around the enemy.

Reddit: I can think of another reason to use fulm onslaught --- lower torment with In Geom and say you dont have a fist of az'sturrasq or, better yet you dont have a full six set
07/22/2015 08:21 AMPosted by Davlok
The 56.77 and 27.7 are just the multipliers for using SSS:Sudden Assault with U6 and EP:Impending Doom (5677% & 2770% weapon damage) since I ise a basic attack = 100% WD as a reference to confirm damage.


okay thats confusing man.. 2770% has what to do with EP : ID ? 6305%
07/22/2015 08:21 AMPosted by Davlok
07/20/2015 12:53 AMPosted by Ichijoji
So after the EP's are triggered immediately, the mobs no longer have the EP debuff unless you have Gungdo equipped as well, right?

Yep.With just Madstone active, your SSS will apply and detonate 7 EPs, but no EPs would remain after SSS ended. With Gungdo, you would need to apply EP beforehand and as long as the first SSS strike hit an enemy with EP, would be able to spread EP to every enemy within EP detonation range including the primary target hit. So with Gungdo, you should see all enemies remaining with EP.

07/20/2015 05:22 PMPosted by Enoone
what are those numbers?
the 56.77
and 27.7

also SS will always kinda make explode 1 EP only from one enemy kinda the SS hits only 1 target at time right?

but what happens wen you use the AOE rune last one that can hit more then just 1 target if they are close enough and all the target hit by the aoe...can they all same time proc their one EP?

The 56.77 and 27.7 are just the multipliers for using SSS:Sudden Assault with U6 and an unruned EP (5677% & 2770% weapon damage) since I ise a basic attack = 100% WD as a reference to confirm damage.

Fulminating Onslaught only detonates one EP, but the damage it does (5677%) per strike with U6 DOES hit in as a small AoE.

k thanks for clarification

So the rune for SSS Fulminating Onslaught actually makes the SSS do aoe dmg only in 7yrds, so is only 5677% aoe dmg? with no extra dmg from that 877%?

To bad it doesn't procs all EP that can reach with its 7yrds AOE DMG it would have re balanced the use of the rune vs the ALL MIGHTY 14 sec CD rune :P

A very important thing to know?:
When using U6 with Madstone and Gundo gear
Every hit of SSS would make all enemies around u get hit by two EP right?
And the "main" or "current" target hit by SSS would get hit by only one EP right?

Was having fun with combos of weapon used and the one used in Cube to calculate average Single target dmg
And then AOE dmg
And need that thing clarified to see how much Shenlong got nerfed
And how much the EP_fist+SSS_fist with cubed SSS_daibo will surpass all rest combos

And how are every other combos doing in confrontation with other weps combos ^^
Davlok, have you tested whether Mangle or FoF would be better for shenlong generator build in 2.3?

Also considering you can have extra fire damage with cindercoat and magefist.
07/23/2015 02:17 AMPosted by imprdl
Davlok, have you tested whether Mangle or FoF would be better for shenlong generator build in 2.3?

Also considering you can have extra fire damage with cindercoat and magefist.

Most people will probably not use Cindercoat with an R2 build since the best part is the 30% RCR which isn't required. Interesting question though, I'm napkinning up a comparison soon.

07/22/2015 02:06 PMPosted by Darth
Edit: Just checked skill calculator 877% is what its saying.. which is 6139% per hit, but I assume that Dav may be saying that the 877% is a holy AoE that isnt part of the SSS strike?? mb?? it does say around the enemy.

07/22/2015 06:32 PMPosted by Enoone
So the rune for SSS Fulminating Onslaught actually makes the SSS do aoe dmg only in 7yrds, so is only 5677% aoe dmg? with no extra dmg from that 877%?

To bad it doesn't procs all EP that can reach with its 7yrds AOE DMG it would have re balanced the use of the rune vs the ALL MIGHTY 14 sec CD rune :P

A very important thing to know?:
When using U6 with Madstone and Gundo gear
Every hit of SSS would make all enemies around u get hit by two EP right?
And the "main" or "current" target hit by SSS would get hit by only one EP right?

Sorry, I had a typo in the FO damage. FO doesn't do a "normal" strike and then an AoE on top of that as far as I can tell. The 877% actually replaces the base effect, and just converts it to an AoE component.

As far as your other question, you can only have 1 EP on a monster at a time, so M+G combo wouldn't apply/detonate 2. You'd only get 1 detonation.
07/23/2015 08:06 AMPosted by Davlok

Sorry, I had a typo in the FO damage. FO doesn't do a "normal" strike and then an AoE on top of that as far as I can tell. The 877% actually replaces the base effect, and just converts it to an AoE component.

As far as your other question, you can only have 1 EP on a monster at a time, so M+G combo wouldn't apply/detonate 2. You'd only get 1 detonation.


Wait a sec ^^
I asked about the combo with the Uliana set ^^
You mean the 877% dmg gets replaced by the full dmg of of SSS that is 5777% right?
and this Way SSS gains an AOE efect in 7yrds?
But still cant make it explode more then 1 palm even if the small aoe can hit more targets same time that have palm o them?

Because if that rune with uliana set still does only 877% weapon dmg per hit on 7 hits, and not the full 5777% on every of the 7 hits then is something bugged :D

K so no weird double mechanics when using madstone and gundo to make SSS hit explode 2 EP on every hit :P
I though maybe was exploding the gundo EP palm then reapplied fast the Madstone EP and instantly exploded it then applied Gundo palm to let it be there :D
Or maybe firstly Epxloded the Madstone EP instantly, then the Currently EP that was already there :D

SO basically Madstone is useless for Single target and also useles for dmg in AOE scenario if already have Gundo gear
We can use it only to bypass to manyaly aplying the palm with EP or waiting for third hit from a generator right?
Fulminating Onslaught works exactly as you would expect with U6. The damage is buffed for each strike like other runes, except it hits in a small AoE.

07/23/2015 09:41 AMPosted by Enoone
SO basically Madstone is useless for Single target and also useles for dmg in AOE scenario if already have Gundo gear
We can use it only to bypass to manyaly aplying the palm with EP or waiting for third hit from a generator right?

Pretty much. Madstone is only a for applying EP if you are too lazy to apply it manually or waiting for 3 generator hits.

For Torment X, I'm still going to use Madstone!

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