[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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Read a post on the feedback forum that said APS was now capped at 5.0, and sadly was able to replicate that myself on PTR just now. (don't have the software to be able to verify if that is just a display error or not) But then I noticed the way FD proc works is by adding 1.15 APS when cubed. Currently we can only get a FD proc while using a FD but in 2.3 it doesn't really double your APS when cubed, it just added 1.15 APS, sort of like this:

FD Proc APS = ( Weapon APS + 1.15 ) * ( 1 + IAS )

Figured I would share the preliminary findings while I have a spare moment!
07/23/2015 09:41 AMPosted by Enoone
SO basically Madstone is useless for Single target and also useles for dmg in AOE scenario if already have Gundo gear
We can use it only to bypass to manyaly aplying the palm with EP or waiting for third hit from a generator right?


It allows for "perma" SSS spam instead of having to stop and hit EP or 3 generators. Which is how Uliana monks are staying alive in high GRs.
07/25/2015 09:38 AMPosted by Davlok
FD Proc APS = ( Weapon APS + 1.15 ) * ( 1 + IAS )

Figured I would share the preliminary findings while I have a spare moment!


TRILLY?!

And all this time I've been thinking how cool it was to have our 1.4 + DW bonus doubled.

Davlok you continue to come through and enlighten on the knowledge front, I thank you.
07/25/2015 09:38 AMPosted by Davlok
Read a post on the feedback forum that said APS was now capped at 5.0, and sadly was able to replicate that myself on PTR just now. (don't have the software to be able to verify if that is just a display error or not) But then I noticed the way FD proc works is by adding 1.15 APS when cubed. Currently we can only get a FD proc while using a FD but in 2.3 it doesn't really double your APS when cubed, it just added 1.15 APS, sort of like this:

FD Proc APS = ( Weapon APS + 1.15 ) * ( 1 + IAS )

Figured I would share the preliminary findings while I have a spare moment!


oh oh oh
Now this explains why the grift was so low for generator builds lol

So thats is why ppl dint do 300k% weapon dmg per second :D
Because they could not reach that 10 APS :D
And was capped at 5

But "only" 150k% weapon dmg per second
07/25/2015 09:38 AMPosted by Davlok
Currently we can only get a FD proc while using a FD but in 2.3 it doesn't really double your APS when cubed, it just added 1.15 APS, sort of like this:

FD Proc APS = ( Weapon APS + 1.15 ) * ( 1 + IAS )

I want to add few words about it. I've made some tests recently, it is actually adding 1.15 APS and totally ignore your AS rolls on gear and paragon, especially on your daibo.
Without proc: (weapon APS) * (1 + AS roll on daibo if present) * (1 + AS rolls from gear and paragon)
With proc: ((weapon APS) * (1 + AS roll on daibo if present) + 1.15) * (1 + AS rolls from gear and paragon)

I think that it must be reported - it is not doubling our attack speed, affix is not working as it stated in description.

Sorry for my english.
07/25/2015 09:38 AMPosted by Davlok
Read a post on the feedback forum that said APS was now capped at 5.0, and sadly was able to replicate that myself on PTR just now. (don't have the software to be able to verify if that is just a display error or not) But then I noticed the way FD proc works is by adding 1.15 APS when cubed. Currently we can only get a FD proc while using a FD but in 2.3 it doesn't really double your APS when cubed, it just added 1.15 APS, sort of like this:

FD Proc APS = ( Weapon APS + 1.15 ) * ( 1 + IAS )

Figured I would share the preliminary findings while I have a spare moment!


I hope its a PTR bug :(
06/17/2015 06:46 AMPosted by Davlok
Updated the list of Monk skills with the new info.

Single Target
5 non-critical "attacks" are required for Broken Promises to proc.
ALL enemies hit in the AoE will have to be non-crits (and still only count as a single attack by BP).
Test = how many "attacks" each "cast" of a Monk skill counts towards the BP's 5 consecutive (may have APS limits).


No ICD on SSS ... broken promises is broken on uli
07/28/2015 05:56 PMPosted by Darth
No ICD on SSS ... broken promises is broken on uli

Haven't done any extensive testing (still on laptop), but pretty sure it still obeys the ICD. It's just that the EPs from U6/Madstone are considered "procs" and don't count towards the BP crit or non-crit counter.

So with 5% crit, you just SSS once for 4 BP non-crits, punch once, and have 100% crit. (I have no clue how taht interacts with Lion's Claw however)
Possibly Cold EP applied by madstone cannot crit (do no damage), leading to quick proc of BP.
07/28/2015 07:15 PMPosted by Davlok
Haven't done any extensive testing (still on laptop), but pretty sure it still obeys the ICD. It's just that the EPs from U6/Madstone are considered "procs" and don't count towards the BP crit or non-crit counter.

So with 5% crit, you just SSS once for 4 BP non-crits, punch once, and have 100% crit. (I have no clue how taht interacts with Lion's Claw however)


Well dav.. if it obeyed the ICD the downtime would be a minimum of 1.25 s

15f/60f/s x 5

It seems like.. as soon as it does 5 hits that dont hit it starts up again.. I mean I havent looked at video but I'd be surprised if my Crit % was less than 80%

which would be unobtainable assuming youre striking the same amount during the course of crit/non crit --

1.25 s of down vs 3 sec of up .. 3 / 4.25
=70.58%

also very noticable is how uneffective BP is if you re using your primary often compared to having max cdr and just letting SSS proc it..

Ill check it again, I died vs perendi with 1 f'n hit to go so it may be a min but it seems broken.
Davlok I have the video up right now of me using broken promises, using VLC going frame by frame..

The downtime on most of the BP is basically non existent.. I dont have white numbers on but, if you see its not even close..

Ill try to do frame step + print screen etc but thats a bunch of work ugh.

I guess i gotta do it tho

Ahh.. its very easy to see if you have the video even without going frame by frame because its just so much more uptime then would be possible..

The weird thing is.. what am i missing here.. why is it 30 frames per second on VLC by frame, is it skipping a frame? Gonna just wait til I have something recorded with the white numbers on it so its easier to tell when a hit is being landed.
07/26/2015 03:10 PMPosted by Xemaka
I want to add few words about it. I've made some tests recently, it is actually adding 1.15 APS and totally ignore your AS rolls on gear and paragon, especially on your daibo.
Without proc: (weapon APS) * (1 + AS roll on daibo if present) * (1 + AS rolls from gear and paragon)
With proc: ((weapon APS) * (1 + AS roll on daibo if present) + 1.15) * (1 + AS rolls from gear and paragon)

FOrgot to reply to this: Yep. I consider "Weapon APS = base APS * Weapon IAS" which is the same as what you wrote ^_^

07/28/2015 07:33 PMPosted by dXter
Possibly Cold EP applied by madstone cannot crit (do no damage), leading to quick proc of BP.

I think the bonus is from EP detonations hits/crits not counting towards BP counter. That is my guess as to why BP is so good with U6 in high density GRs in that it would make sense in that procs can't proc procs (usually) but in a beneficial way. ^_^

07/30/2015 10:49 AMPosted by Darth
Well dav.. if it obeyed the ICD the downtime would be a minimum of 1.25 s

Not quite. As soon as you are "off" ICD you have to be attacking immediately the next frame for that to be true. My guess is that without Lion's Claw, Monks won't be able to gain 5x BP stacks with a single SSS. The most I have gotten is 4, which makes sense with the .25 ICD, since every other hit occurs during the ICD. Then there are a few frames that pass after ICD is off before the next attack. Rough estimate of frames between SSS strike = ~14 without LC, ~7 with LC.

Non-seasons (no LC) = 7 strikes per SSS
1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th non-crit strikes = BP++
2nd, 4th, 6th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 4 BP stacks per SSS (7 critportunities)

(the above matches with my PTR observed experience)

Season 4 Monk (with LC) = 14 strikes per SSS
1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th non-crit strikes = BP++
2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12,14th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 5 BP stacks per SSS (14 critportunities)

(above are napkin guesses, I don't have an LC to verify frames)
Thank you, Davlok.
Have you done any tests regarding the new APS cap? I wonder if 5 APS cap applies only to sheet APS in your profile (weapon_aps*ias) and multiplicative mods of alacrity/R2/generator innate AS counts over this cap, or the whole total APS is capped by 5? Second case can make FD useless with shenlongs.
07/31/2015 12:42 PMPosted by Xemaka
Thank you, Davlok.
Have you done any tests regarding the new APS cap? I wonder if 5 APS cap applies only to sheet APS in your profile (weapon_aps*ias) and multiplicative mods of alacrity/R2/generator innate AS counts over this cap, or the whole total APS is capped by 5? Second case can make FD useless with shenlongs.

Nothing extensive, but the 5 aps cap appears to be to sheet APS. So generator APS mods (innate generator attack mods, R2, Alacrity) can bump that 5APS to almost 10 gen-attacks-per-sec... but it is still much reduced from what it was last PTR 15+ GAPS. >_<

So it might be best for gen-builds to build around hitting 5.0 sheet aps exactly with FD proc. Recorded a video at a weak-sauce resolution (to not drop frames) here:

https://youtu.be/JLY5-wIjk-0
07/31/2015 12:01 PMPosted by Davlok
Non-seasons (no LC) = 7 strikes per SSS
1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th non-crit strikes = BP++
2nd, 4th, 6th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 4 BP stacks per SSS (7 critportunities)

(the above matches with my PTR observed experience)

Season 4 Monk (with LC) = 14 strikes per SSS
1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th non-crit strikes = BP++
2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12,14th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 5 BP stacks per SSS (14 critportunities)


Not correct. (edit at least I find it almost impossible to believe) yet.

Math quickly..

what is 3 / 4.25 x (DAM)x((CRIT+100)/100)
+
1.25/4.25 x (DAM)

versus

(DAM)x((CRIT+100)/100)x(1 - CHC/100) x1.40

+

DAM x 1.40 x 1 - ( 1 - CHC/100))
hmmmm

500 chd 50% ..

.2941 % not crit hit on bp, so 70.59% absolute max.. whats 20% more crit above 50% at 500% crit bonus as far as total damage..

( 6xDam x .5 + Dam x .5 ) x 1.4 vs 6xDam x .7 + Dam x .3

3.5Dam x 1.4 v 4.2 + .3 = 4.5DAM

4.9Dam (CoE) vs 4.5Dam(Broken Promises)

Aside from several other variables, like having an open affix for added dam on rings and jewelry.. BP should not be tons more effective.. and it is tons more effective
07/28/2015 05:56 PMPosted by Darth
06/17/2015 06:46 AMPosted by Davlok
Updated the list of Monk skills with the new info.

Single Target
5 non-critical "attacks" are required for Broken Promises to proc.
ALL enemies hit in the AoE will have to be non-crits (and still only count as a single attack by BP).
Test = how many "attacks" each "cast" of a Monk skill counts towards the BP's 5 consecutive (may have APS limits).


No ICD on SSS ... broken promises is broken on uli


It works like it allways did.I use it on my PP Monk for ages and it has allways been the best skill to procc BP (with 2+ mobs). 1 SSS=4 possible BP stacks with 7 chances to crit - thats how i learned it here somewhere around.
Curious to know what order the effects of using EP: Flesh is Weak with U6 and Madstone and SSS.

I would assume its like this:
SSS hits
Madstone applies EP with 20% debuff
EP explodes for 3324% wep damage
Gungdo spreads EP (if using)

So with only madstone you would never get the 20% increase to SSS damage, you would need gungdo for that. Also you would never get any of the 1440% dot damage without gungdo.

Any way you could test to confirm?
08/04/2015 11:27 AMPosted by Orangejello
So with only madstone you would never get the 20% increase to SSS damage, you would need gungdo for that. Also you would never get any of the 1440% dot damage without gungdo.

No, the EP is applied by Madstone immediately BEFORE the SSS lands, so you do get the benefit of the 20% FiW rune if you wanted to use that.

Testing Screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/E0mg2ey.png

No Madstone with +30% SSS = 273,149
With Madstone with +30% SSS & FiW = 273,149/1.3*1.5 = 315,171

Order:
1. Madstone EP Applied
2. Uliana SSS hits
3. Uliana detonates EP
4. EP fades (without gungdo)
5. Repeat 6-13 more times ^_^
Davlok, do you know if damage reductions from different inner sanctuary runes stack?
Okay first,

Vox you sexy beast where have you been?

secondly..

You guys are correct.. Broken Promises is working as intended with the 15 frame ICD --

Why it is hard to believe is because how much that ^ actually works out to be 1 < x < 1.25 because of how SSS works + w/ Lion's Claw..

Coming from having used BP on Dashing Strike build religiously.. it feels broken when you are constantly seeing crits, it feels like there's no down time.

1 - 1.25 seconds of down time is literally hard to catch by human eye, in fact turn off white numbers video tape a session, and watch it frame by frame it literally looks like you are critting 90% of the time. There are so many hits you dont see when you turn off white numbers. Turning those on you'll notice that you do fail proc'ing BP quite a bit.. but not enough to make it ineffective..

Still the only thing that is hard to grasp is why it is so effective especially in SC. If you ignore all defense and look at offensive affixes on places where you can have CHC, but would benefit from an additional affix offensive there is only the rings and amulet.

Gloves, Helm, and Bracers are ChC spots where you can reach max offensive affixes while having chc. - Ex. Bracers 20% Cold, DEX, 6 CHC only offensive stats possible.. Helm Sock (Cdr) Chc Dex + % skill = 4 primary affixes, Gloves ChC, ChD, Dex, CDR only 4 possible primary affix offensive benefits.. [ Attack Speed % does not have an effect on damage during SSS or frequency of use of SSS or duration of animation of SSS ]

Max Damage on rings w/o BP - Socket, CHC, CDR, ChD, Dam, DamStat, 4 out these 6
Socket is mandatory will always be highest no matter what your other stats are.. This is not true for CHD, Added Dam, DamStat.

So rings with BP can have no CHC Sock will be there either way, CDR will too most likely, so you can add either 50 % ChD (prob will have this if you are using CHC anyway) Dam as in Average Damage which will range up to about 5-10% total damage --- > BTW Ill make a separate post on how to do Average Damage versus Damage range on weapons right after this or you have an extra DamStat of 500-650 Dex max which is generally about 5-6% Damage

On amulet 20% Elemental 100% CHD Socket Mandatory, BP you can skip CHC, either get 8% CDR, 1000 Dam Stat (which is the first sizeable benefit), average damage same as rings.

20% elemtental 100% chd sock Dam Stat isn't that rare 20% +Sock + 100% + Ave Dam is very rare probably just as rare as 20% 100% sock 8 % Cdr..

So Lets say you have the 1000 Dam Stat + 10% additional Average Damage from two rings on a 10000 dex char beforehand.. that's a total of ~21% damage boost.

I guess highest chc you can have on a character is 52 % on a monk without Broken Promises, 50 % would be a reasonable amount to assume..

I guess if you are hitting literally the last frame possible and first frame possible with non crits on broken promises, and also hitting on the 16th Frame each time <--- Someone check to make sure you have to wait a full 15 frames or if on 15th it can be reproc'd.. then you would have .. 1 frame before 1st proc, 15 frames, 1 frame again (2procs), 15 frames, 1 frame again (3procs), 15 frames, 1 frame again (4procs), 15 frames, (Start/5thProc) + 1 frame (I assume this doesnt start on the 5th non proc that counts, and theres never more than 1 hit per frame I assume),

So total that.. 1 , 15 , 1, 15, 1, 15, 1 ,15 ,1 is 5 in 1's and 60 in 15's 65 frames .. which is 1.0875 seconds of downtime if perfect, and it gets fairly near perfect. You are hitting constantly... especially in a grift and then 3 seconds or 180 frames of uptime.. 65 + 180 total base frame rotational period = 245 frames for 1 perfect BP cycle...

65 / 245 = 26.53% time not critting - 100% = 73.47 % critical hit chance which given scenario you choose 21% damage upgrade non critical hit damage based is also benefitting from that 23.47% more critical hit chance ...

1.21Y = Damage bonus x variable damagetotal during non crit from broken promises + gear max over gear max without BP

assuming you have 500% chD
1.21Y x .2653 = .321Y (Non Crit Weighted)
+
1.21Y x .7347 x 6 [((500+100)/100)] = 5.3334Y (Crit Weighted)

= 5.6544 == 565.44% damage [Edit wrote increase here.. increase is wrong]

Versus CoE ( are we having fun yet? )

1Y x 1.40 x .5 = .7Y

1Y x 1.40 x .5 x 6 = 3 x1.4 = 4.2Y

=4.9Y == 490% damage

KONKlusion TL:DR Version

Broken Promises assuming your jewelry is giving you 21% more damage effectiveness if activated perfectly all the time should give you a total of 565.44% damage vs 490% with CoE in a 50 500 set up. Which is a total damage increase of 565.44%/490% ***not minus*** 1.1539
=15.39% more damage from switching to BP if it worked perfectly and you geared perfectly.

so.. okay now it makes more sense to me.

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