[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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Since there seems to be a few more BP+U6 questions in 2.3, figured I would correct a previous statement I made that is still sort of correct, but since they reduced the cast animation of SSS, is slightly different.

07/31/2015 12:01 PMPosted by Davlok
Rough estimate of frames between SSS strike = ~14 without LC, ~7 with LC.

Non-seasons (no LC) = 7 strikes per SSS
1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th non-crit strikes = BP++
2nd, 4th, 6th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 4 BP stacks per SSS (7 critportunities)

(the above matches with my PTR observed experience)

Season 4 Monk (with LC) = 14 strikes per SSS
1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th non-crit strikes = BP++
2,3,5,6,8,9,11,12,14th non-crit strikes = ignored (occurs during ICD)
Max = 5 BP stacks per SSS (14 critportunities)

(above are napkin guesses, I don't have an LC to verify frames)

WIth the data 詩骨玉神裁 provided, the frames between SSS strikes of no-LC is 11, and 5 for LC monks. Total of ~89 frames for ~1.5s cast time. With the same max 4 or 5 BP stack accumulation due to ICD.
Is area damage benefiting from the sunwuko 4-set buff and/or shenlong 2-set buff?
considering the 5 aps cap, are there certain "breakpoints" or rather "maximum useful amount of ias" that a shenlong user should aim for?

like never use more than x% of ias on gear if you use all attack speed passives and FD etc.?

can you elaborate a bit more on that cap please?

thx,
seth
08/31/2015 05:08 AMPosted by Davlok
Quick test says it is calculated from the base of the SSS cast location (the circle on the ground as you disappear)


Woo! Thanks so much!
08/31/2015 05:32 AMPosted by BDF
Is area damage benefiting from the sunwuko 4-set buff and/or shenlong 2-set buff?

Sorry, I haven't been able to come up with a consistent way to test AD, will assume it isn't working so I don't regret salvaging lots of AD ancients. ^_^

08/31/2015 07:39 AMPosted by Sethanor
considering the 5 aps cap, are there certain "breakpoints" or rather "maximum useful amount of ias" that a shenlong user should aim for?

like never use more than x% of ias on gear if you use all attack speed passives and FD etc.?

can you elaborate a bit more on that cap please?

Alacrity & R2 are unaffected by the 5 aps cap, but STI and FD are. So unless you are using Pain Enhancer and recieving a ton of group IAS buffs probably don't need to worry about the cap.

As for breakpoints with STI and FD, I feel I spend time in three 3 IAS "states":

1 - No FD, No STI
2 - No FD, STI
3 - FD + STI << woo!

So optimizing 9 separate breakpoints (3x3) is kinda "bleh" even though there could exist a magic BP that hit all 9 "just right"

See Druin's thread here for a more detailed analysis on breakpoints. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/14609371554 (and d3planner does list your previous/next breakpoint for your generator), but I personally haven't really felt compelled to use any affix on gloves/rings/amulet/weapon on IAS, optimizing more for CC/CD/CDR trifecta where possible.

08/31/2015 01:27 PMPosted by Logos
Woo! Thanks so much!

No problem! Also updated the first post with links to some of the more useful posts. :)
Sorry, I haven't been able to come up with a consistent way to test AD, will assume it isn't working so I don't regret salvaging lots of AD ancients. ^_^


I have min=max gear, so sunwuko would be easy to test for me...I'll see if I can get that done, but it probably won't be tonight.

Shenlong will be more difficult, but I think I can still test it and get the expected variation to be lower than the expected 100% difference between bug'd/non-bug'd. Can you think of any quick-ish way to obtain lvl 60 shenlong weapons?

I'll report back my findings, and if there is a bug I'll upload the video, my math, and make a dedicated bug report post about it.
@Davlok:
thx for the info. i just tested how far i can go and hitting the 5aps on the char-sheet is pretty easy so i guess i'll just go for less ias on gear or maybe drop the STI ... alltho that might be too much -.-
(used R2, FD, STI, Alacrity, gogok but no pain-enhancer ... gonna try dropping one by one and see where i end up. if i find some useful values i'll post them)

gnah, monk mechanics are quite complex ... i used to play barb and most stuff there is just simple :D
09/01/2015 06:30 AMPosted by BDF
I have min=max gear, so sunwuko would be easy to test for me...I'll see if I can get that done, but it probably won't be tonight.

Shenlong will be more difficult, but I think I can still test it and get the expected variation to be lower than the expected 100% difference between bug'd/non-bug'd. Can you think of any quick-ish way to obtain lvl 60 shenlong weapons?

I'll report back my findings, and if there is a bug I'll upload the video, my math, and make a dedicated bug report post about it.

Heh, I remember I tried to convert set item on PTR when it worked with 2pc to try and get a low level shenlongs, and was able to get a level 60 one, but didn't have enough +min gear to be able to exactly confirm the shenlong multiplicativeness to the exactness I like.

As for AD (from the reddit response) seems like we will have to wait until 2.4 for it to happen. Since it does not work with half of F/R have a few months to confirm if it works for Sunwuko on 2.4 PTR, especially with a 6pc bonus coming!

09/01/2015 07:38 AMPosted by Sethanor
@Davlok:
thx for the info. i just tested how far i can go and hitting the 5aps on the char-sheet is pretty easy so i guess i'll just go for less ias on gear or maybe drop the STI ... alltho that might be too much -.-
(used R2, FD, STI, Alacrity, gogok but no pain-enhancer ... gonna try dropping one by one and see where i end up. if i find some useful values i'll post them)

gnah, monk mechanics are quite complex ... i used to play barb and most stuff there is just simple :D

I would avoid any IAS affixes on gear just to be safe if you're using FD+STI. I had just 10% from paragon and was hitting 4.97 with just WD/Monk buffs in a 4p group.
As for AD (from the reddit response) seems like we will have to wait until 2.4 for it to happen. Since it does not work with half of F/R have a few months to confirm if it works for Sunwuko on 2.4 PTR, especially with a 6pc bonus coming!


Yeah I read that part, but it wasn't specific enough to deal with specifically focus+restraint, so there may be blind spots still worth documenting that they could be able to fix in more of the short term.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/3j9p38/hey_rdiablo_were_here_for_a_quick_qa_about_patch/%20cuniwvd/?context=2
The functional issues with Area Damage are composed of several different, but related issues.

In patch 2.3, we fixed most of the issues, e.g. Area Damage working with Wrath of the Berserker - Insanity and similar skills and items. However, a few issues remain which I believe include Area Damage's interaction with Delsere's and Bracers of the First Men. These remaining issues were deemed too risky from a code standpoint to hotfix because the code touches the order that damage bonuses are calculated and applied, and it was causing other bugs with elemental damage bonuses and damage amplify debuffs. We plan to fix all remaining issues in the next major content patch when we have PTR time.

Sorry that it's taking so long. We appreciate your patience.
So just to have it black on white finally:

AD currently is to be neglected for every Monk spec, correct?
09/02/2015 07:01 AMPosted by Vax
So just to have it black on white finally:

AD currently is to be neglected for every Monk spec, correct?


Unless someone confirms otherwise, that's going to be my assumption. If they put out a list of what isn't affecting AD, and it's only impacted by F/R for monks, then I'll let someone smarter than me do the math. But for now, I'm just going to reroll AD off my gear.
Area Damage not benefiting from Sunwuko 4-Set Buff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxFi9Vs9598

Test Set-up:
755% Weapon damage attack (lightning lashing tail kick)
4000 Dex
55 min dmg
55 max dmg
34% Crit chance
315% Crit Dmg
50% Area Damage
15% Fire Elemental (in this case only changes clone damage)

Predicted Lashing Tail Kick Damage:

       NonCrit:   17,025 = (755/100) * (1+4000/100) * 55
        Critical:   70,655 = (755/100) * (1+4000/100) * 55 * (1 + 315/100)
WukoBuffed: 102,152 = (755/100) * (1+4000/100) * 55 * (1 + 500/100)
     WukoCrit: 423,929 = (755/100) * (1+4000/100) * 55 * (1 + 500/100) * (1 + 315/100)

Predicted Area Damage Damage:

       NonCrit:     8,513
             Crit:   35,327
WukoBuffed:  51,076
     WukoCrit: 211,964

At ~16 seconds in you can observe a wuko-buffed, non-crit, kick land for 102,152 and trigger a 8,513 area damage proc. Predicted buffed attack value triggering a predicted unbuffed area damage proc.
As a follow-up the 100% all-damage buff from Shenlong's IS properly buffing area damage procs.

If you're really curious I can upload the vid and info about my test set-up but the math isn't nearly as neat as I can't achieve min=max dmg with two lvl 70 fist weapons (best I could get was 522min and 662 max).

Now I'll see if I can find a way to do spirit generator's somehow.
Ok generators are weird, and then shenlong's seems to make the even weirder....Correct me if I'm wrong:

#1. With each hit generators land for an amount 58.18% higher than what the tooltip weapon damage would predict.

#2. Shenlong's 'Spirit increases generator dmg' affix literally adds weapon damage to your generators.

Like for Crippling wave Mangle, 255% weapon damage in the tooltip base, say you have 20 spirit after your attack lands. It adds in like 255% + 1.5%*20 = 285% weapon damage.

The only way my equations seem to have any predictive power is if I treat it like this, it isn't a buff in any way I've ever seen before, it is additional attack base damage. Am I just going crazy? or is this already a known thing?
_____________________________________________________

Regardless I'm 99.99% certain area damage isn't working for this buff.....or even the base generator or something. I got a 45,295 Area damage proc with 50% area damage, when the size of the attacks that landed that turn were 319,689 and 1,230,332. However the area damage proc was within the range predicted if the attacks that landed were exactly what the tooltip stated.

Can anyone point me to something that explains what generators are actually supposed to hit for?
Ok Area damage for sure gets buffed by crit now??

I came here to ask this .. davlok when testing MR with uli

-well simply .. would MR transfer from each palm to the next with gungo ?
09/02/2015 06:49 PMPosted by Darth
Ok Area damage for sure gets buffed by crit now??


I don't recall there ever being a time where it didn't? If the attack that triggered area damage crit, it's damage would be based off of that value.

The proc itself doesn't crit, but it can be triggered by an attack that did and do the appropriate % of that.
It did not benefit from crit damage... before this patch. I dont know about now.

At least that's what I took from Amiars guide.

I mean you can have good and over 100% area easily.. so, I mean that would be just nasty
Hi, I was wondering does EP snapshots your sheet buffs the moment you cast it? eg crit chance, F/R, convention or is it dynamic
I mean I just did a 60 with no ancient weap and like only a focus + lost belt that is ancient, not having much luck, but I tossed on MR seems to up DPS a lot versus RG. If I could get it to apply to the palm it might be worth using Gungo. Which is what I was thinking as per the previous post... If Mythic Ryhtym damage is carried through gungo normally, than if you applied the palm yourself prior to activating SSS it (although your first SSS would need to specifically hit the palm target you palmed and not any other you may have added thru 3rd gen strike) (cont) it should carry EP through not SSS.

Gonna try for #1 over disperse right now, but hes got mucha betta gear.
09/02/2015 10:04 PMPosted by aspry
Hi, I was wondering does EP snapshots your sheet buffs the moment you cast it? eg crit chance, F/R, convention or is it dynamic


Copy-Paste response follows: It depends. Dynamic buffs like Zei, BotT, Sunwuko 4pc, CoE, BP, etc are checked at the time the EP explodes, the actual weapon (MH/OH) +% damage (Assimilation, Faith in the Light, etc), Elemental, Elite, etc are snapshot at the time of EP application.

Or something weird like that ^_^

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