[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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09/02/2015 04:56 PMPosted by BDF
Area Damage not benefiting from Sunwuko 4-Set Buff.

Did a quick test myself last night and reached the same conclusion. I also use LTK.

Screenshot of Testing = http://i.imgur.com/RT0nDvm.png

Control Test #s
1 - 2

Control Test#1 = Sunwuko 4pc OFF (no RRG in cube)
LTK Damage = 44,287
50% AD Proc = 44,287/2 = 22,143
Conclusion
AD works correctly for unbuffed LTK.

Control Test#2 = Sunwuko 4pc ON (RRG selected in cube)
LTK Damage = 44,287 * 6 = 265,721
50% AD Proc = 265,721/2 = 132,861
Conclusion
AD does not work for Sunwuko 4pc Buff.

09/02/2015 07:01 AMPosted by Vax
So just to have it black on white finally:

AD currently is to be neglected for every Monk spec, correct?

I'd say that is safe to say for 2.3. Pretty much all "end-game" Monk build uses both Focus + Restraint, and it looks like Focus's portion is still not working. It also isn't working properly with Sunwuko 4pc. So AD just won't be as good as it looks on paper until 2.4.
09/03/2015 03:50 AMPosted by Davlok
So AD just won't be as good as it looks on paper until 2.4.

Some people have mentioned that they think it will be "hotfixed" but I guess we'll see.
Any idea why generators were hitting harder than they should've been?
Probably a known issue, but I'll be making formal bug report threads about individual area damage things working/not working:

For sunwuko:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/18596066912#1
03/05/2015 05:25 AMPosted by Davlok
Test #2 = Exploding Palm
MH Active = 23,549 damage per tick
OH Active = 537 damage per tick
Conclusion = EP alternates between MH & OH


03/05/2015 05:25 AMPosted by Davlok
Test #4 = EP Explosion
MH Active = ~380,000 explosion
OH Active = ~14,000 explosion
Conclusion = EP Explosion snapshots the active hand used.
Is this also true for U6? Gungdo apply s EP based on? Does auto casting of EP, due to 2 piece, mainly pick your MH? (its the third hit, assuming you rush in and start attacking?)
09/03/2015 04:18 AMPosted by Peldin
09/03/2015 03:50 AMPosted by Davlok
So AD just won't be as good as it looks on paper until 2.4.

Some people have mentioned that they think it will be "hotfixed" but I guess we'll see.

Unfortunately, from the reddit Q&A, J. Yang himself said it won't be completely fixed until 2.4 and we'll be able to test it out on the next PTR

https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comments/3j9p38/hey_rdiablo_were_here_for_a_quick_qa_about_patch/%20cuniwvd/?context=2

09/03/2015 06:21 AMPosted by BDF
Any idea why generators were hitting harder than they should've been?

The quick punches I did with Shenlong didn't indicate anything weird going on with the 1st part of the Shenlong's generator damage buff. You get a 1.5% damage increase per spirit that is multiplicative with all the other damage buffs. I usually do a basic attack to know what 100% weapon damage should look like, then multiply it by the buffs like Raiment 2pc, Shenlong, etc and it should roll up correctly. Maybe you forgot you were wearing R2, DD, or +1 somewhere.

Example Calc:
If 100% weapon damage with basic attack = 100 damage
With Deadly Reach @ 150% weapon damage = 150 damage
+Raiment 2pc @ 4x damage multiplier = 600 damage
+Shenlong 2pc Bonus 1 @ 300 spirit -- 5.5x multiplier = 3300 damage
+Shenlong 2pc Bonus 2 @ 2x multiplier = 6600 damage

09/04/2015 05:35 AMPosted by Redskullz
Is this also true for U6? Gungdo apply s EP based on? Does auto casting of EP, due to 2 piece, mainly pick your MH? (its the third hit, assuming you rush in and start attacking?)

I'll test some more on this when I have time, but from what I remember Madstone only applies 1 hand for all 14 EPs it detonates. It's whatever is not-active for the first SSS strike. Meanwhile, SSS strikes 1-14 alternate hands. I'll have to check Gungdo and U2 mechanics as far as hand selection goes.
09/04/2015 10:27 AMPosted by Davlok
I'll test some more on this when I have time, but from what I remember Madstone only applies 1 hand for all 14 EPs it detonates. It's whatever is not-active for the first SSS strike. Meanwhile, SSS strikes 1-14 alternate hands. I'll have to check Gungdo and U2 mechanics as far as hand selection goes.
Thanks in advance :)
I just came to do some research on broken promises given comments I had read in another thread, and was surprised to come across your post from back in June.

The description from the post implies a 250ms cooldown on counter increase, and a cancellation of the counter on any crit from any ability, aoe or otherwise, on any target in the meantime.

I find this highly surprising given my experiences with the ring, since if it were the case, I should have much lower uptime with the playstyle I have employed thus far while speed farming in particular, but also in more difficult content when not always waiting for a proc before using SSS.

If it were the case, it should be almost impossible for broken promises to proc during the execution of a seven sided strike on a pack of mobs - and yet, it happens all the time when speed farming. Am I wrong here?

Let's suppose that the average pack size is 10 mobs and I have a 5% chance to crit. Each SSS strike should have 11 chances to crit (the original strike, plus the explosion damage on each mob in the pack). 11 chances to crit at 5% crit chance means that the chance to not crit on any given SSS strike is ~46%. I don't know how many potential chances to proc BP can occur within a lion's paw SSS (it may be more than the 4 from a normal sss, but it certainly isn't double), but the chances to crit have literally doubled. Obviously, the further into the SSS we go, the more chances to crit occur and the less likely it should be that BP procs.

Do crits garnered from EP explosions not cancel the counter on the BP? That is the only explanation I can come up with as to the frequency with which I can proc BP during the middle of a SSS in a large pack of mobs. Essentially, I frequently just spam SSS rather than waiting for the BP proc, because if the BP procs during the middle of an SSS, I will still be able to get another full SSS in to the proc. It happens so frequently that I hadn't even considered waiting for the proc before using SSS in the first place...
09/03/2015 03:49 AMPosted by Davlok
Copy-Paste response follows: It depends. Dynamic buffs like Zei, BotT, Sunwuko 4pc, CoE, BP, etc are checked at the time the EP explodes, the actual weapon (MH/OH) +% damage (Assimilation, Faith in the Light, etc), Elemental, Elite, etc are snapshot at the time of EP application.

Or something weird like that ^_^


Dav you goin out of your way to ignore me = ?

Mythic Rythym ??

Area Damage + Crit >> any effect?
09/04/2015 11:19 AMPosted by Pathologic
Do crits garnered from EP explosions not cancel the counter on the BP? That is the only explanation I can come up with as to the frequency with which I can proc BP during the middle of a SSS in a large pack of mobs. Essentially, I frequently just spam SSS rather than waiting for the BP proc, because if the BP procs during the middle of an SSS, I will still be able to get another full SSS in to the proc. It happens so frequently that I hadn't even considered waiting for the proc before using SSS in the first place...

Yea, that is my best guess as well as to why Monks are the only class that seems to use BP - because the EP detonated by U6 are considered "procs" and don't count towards the crit or hit counter of BP (procs can't proc procs fuzzy-rule). Either that or, during the development cycle when BP was first introduced on PTR, it used to proc off DoTs and had no ICD, so when they "balanced" it, no longer allowed Exploding Palm to "count" towards BP at all. So we have a situation where U6 Monks using SSS has max 14 critportunities (regardless of monster density) to "pass" to gain 100% crit, as the faster SSS cast animation of ~1.5s matches well with the minimum ICD of gaining BP buff. (0.25x5). So no matter how many enemies an EP detonation hits, none of those crits "count" against Broken Promises.

Then complain when Assimilation reduces their Crit uptime ^_^;

That is why BP isn't used for R2 builds or R6 builds - all those aoe attacks all "count" as critportunites, and makes BP relatively useless for any other build. May or may not be "intended" but since it has gone live as is, I wouldn't expect that to change during 2.3. I'm sure I'll be able to play around with it in Era 5!

09/04/2015 11:29 AMPosted by Darth
Area Damage + Crit >> any effect?

BDF already answered your question I thought! But if I must, look at this screenshot again: http://i.imgur.com/RT0nDvm.png. The left shows a LTK Crit @ 50% AD that was exactly 50% damage, so crit is already factored in. You can't crit on top of a crit, or that would be double dipping++.
thnx thats what disperse said sorry, i interpreted what BDF said as it does.. Thought thats what he meant by always works with crit..

If i ask does it work with crit im wondering if it gets a critical hit bonus not if there is area damage when you crit.. a crit is still a hit =??
09/04/2015 05:35 AMPosted by Redskullz
Is this also true for U6? Gungdo apply s EP based on? Does auto casting of EP, due to 2 piece, mainly pick your MH? (its the third hit, assuming you rush in and start attacking?)

Alrighty, did some tests with U2/Madstone/Gungdo in various configurations.

With Madstone
SSS alternates MH/OH with every strike.
Madstone applies the same hand each strike of EP.


MH Active
SSS-1,3,5,7 = MH
SSS-2,4,6 = OH
EP-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 = OH

OH Active
SSS-1,3,5,7 = OH
SSS-2,4,6 = MH
EP-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 = MH

With Gungdo
SSS alternates MH/OH with every strike.
EP applied is the same hand as the one that just detonated.


EP applied from MH
SSS1,2,3,4,5,6,7 alternates
EP-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 = MH

EP applied from OH
SSS1,2,3,4,5,6,7 alternates
EP-1-2-3-4-5-6-7 = OH

With Uliana + Gungdo
SSS alternates MH/OH with every strike.
EP applied by U2 is the other hand than the 3rd strike you just landed.
EP application seems to "counts" as an attack in terms of MH/OH alternating.
Gungdo's EP applied is the same hand as the one that just detonated.


MH Active
Gen1 = MH
Gen2 = OH
Gen3 = MH
EP Applied by U2 = OH
SSS Strike 1 = MH
SSS EP1 = OH
SSS Strike 2 = OH
SSS EP2 = OH
...
to 7/14

OH Active
Gen1 = OH
Gen2 = MH
Gen3 = OH
EP Applied by U2 = MH
SSS Strike 1 = OH
SSS EP1 = MH
SSS Strike 2 = MH
SSS EP2 = MH
...
to 7/14

With Uliana + Gungdo + Madstone
Madstone rules apply since EP is reapplied.

Didn't do too extensive a test and really don't play Uliana in non-seasons (yet) so might be missing something obvious. I'm sure if someone could time a specific hand to always be active when casting SSS, could theoretically enchant the stronger weapon with +10% damage and always use that to EP.... but it seems like a bit too much work to care about.
09/05/2015 04:36 AMPosted by Davlok
Didn't do too extensive a test
Np this is what i was after so thanks again :)
Davlok..

Listen man I have been having this same argument for a long time with people..

Is this how you see it working..

Madstone applies and detonates

Gungo Spreads

If you only are using one because you want to use spirit guards

The only advantage to having the palm spread with Gungo is the on death explosion,
because Madstone would have exploding the palm (and applied it) on any SSS strike anyway?
The quick punches I did with Shenlong didn't indicate anything weird going on with the 1st part of the Shenlong's generator damage buff. You get a 1.5% damage increase per spirit that is multiplicative with all the other damage buffs. I usually do a basic attack to know what 100% weapon damage should look like, then multiply it by the buffs like Raiment 2pc, Shenlong, etc and it should roll up correctly. Maybe you forgot you were wearing R2, DD, or +1 somewhere.


Retested with better controls/less gear on. Numbers are now matching predictions. I must've had some set bonus or something I wasn't realizing.
RA/MR snapped at time of EP application?
09/05/2015 07:54 AMPosted by Darth
Davlok..

Listen man I have been having this same argument for a long time with people..

Is this how you see it working..

Madstone applies and detonates

Gungo Spreads

If you only are using one because you want to use spirit guards

The only advantage to having the palm spread with Gungo is the on death explosion,
because Madstone would have exploding the palm (and applied it) on any SSS strike anyway?
Why is it an argument? It's a pretty clear fact.

You can only cause a maximum of 14 explosion per exploding palm, plus any on death explosions that result. Gungdos only affects the on-death portion of this - any target that you hit with SSS will automatically have EP with madstone, and may or may not have it with gungdos.
LoL thank you path.
09/05/2015 07:57 PMPosted by Pathologic
You can only cause a maximum of 14 explosion per exploding palm, plus any on death explosions that result. Gungdos only affects the on-death portion of this

nope. all explosions from SSS are affected by gungdo, so if you palm only one mob and then SSS him, entire pack around him will be covered with EPs, even if the first target is alive.
so madstone is useful when you don't bother with palming mobs by hand/U2, or in the party with other monk in U6 and the same cold EP.

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