[Mechanics] Davlok's Random Testing Shack

Monk
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09/06/2015 03:18 AMPosted by Xemaka
09/05/2015 07:57 PMPosted by Pathologic
You can only cause a maximum of 14 explosion per exploding palm, plus any on death explosions that result. Gungdos only affects the on-death portion of this

nope. all explosions from SSS are affected by gungdo, so if you palm only one mob and then SSS him, entire pack around him will be covered with EPs, even if the first target is alive.
so madstone is useful when you don't bother with palming mobs by hand/U2, or in the party with other monk in U6 and the same cold EP.


You didn't read what I said.

It doesnt matter how many mobs are affected with EP - you can only hit 14 targets with SSS. Therefore, the max explosions you can cause from a SSS is 14, plus as many as mobs that die with EP as a result.

However, as the average lifespan of mobs goes up, the value of madstone increases, as the number of SSS per mob death goes up. Madstone is strictly better in any case where the mobs don't specifically die as a result of that particular SSS, and when it has more time to spread EP over multiple SSS casts.
Need some more testing information with iceblink and EP, Ulianas and etc.

Iceblink does proc with cold EP from toolbar, doesnt with ulianas 2 set, probably doesnt from madstone and gungdo.
09/06/2015 05:47 AMPosted by Pathologic
You didn't read what I said.

It doesnt matter how many mobs are affected with EP - you can only hit 14 targets with SSS. Therefore, the max explosions you can cause from a SSS is 14, plus as many as mobs that die with EP as a result.

However, as the average lifespan of mobs goes up, the value of madstone increases, as the number of SSS per mob death goes up. Madstone is strictly better in any case where the mobs don't specifically die as a result of that particular SSS, and when it has more time to spread EP over multiple SSS casts.

yes, you can hit only 14 targets with SSS, and if even one of them is palmed, it will explode (whenever mob is dead or not) and cover others mob with EPs. so your next SSS will cause all 14 explosions.
i'm trying to say that gungdo works on every EP explosion, not only on-death ones. so madstone becomes completely useless when all mobs are palmed, because gungdo reapplies EPs after explosion on every mob in proper radius.
09/05/2015 03:22 PMPosted by Darth
RA/MR snapped at time of EP application?

Relentless Assault? No, that was a dynamic modifier last I checked. You can snapshot MR with Gungdo, but it might not work too well since you'd have to pray your -FIRST- SSS strike hits the exact monster you applied a MR-EP to manually. There does seem to be something funky going on with MR with U2, but haven't really been able to reproduce that event consistently.

09/06/2015 08:10 AMPosted by Ennorath
Need some more testing information with iceblink and EP, Ulianas and etc.

Iceblink does proc with cold EP from toolbar, doesnt with ulianas 2 set, probably doesnt from madstone and gungdo.

I tried to test this with Submission, but failed! Sorry... maybe if it were 100% CD instead.

But not even sure Iceblink is worth on Monks for an 10% crit, as it seemed more like a ranged class thing. Maybe in 2.4 with a Hand of Ytar spec? ^_^
Iceblink doesn't proc because you're using a physical rune on SSS. It's also completely worthless to even talk about it because it will never be better than the other 3 gems and the build isn't competitive in non season anyway.

Madstone vs gungdo gear is pretty moot as well. They both do the exact same thing except with gungdo gear you get on kill death explosions reliably from every mob and with madstone you don't.

You shouldn't ever waste SSS attacks on non EP'd mobs because your first hit is always the closest enemy.
TY davlok.. another question

http://i.imgur.com/RT0nDvm.png

Can you explain what you mean by double dipping, and whats goin on on the right side of this picture.. cause the left side now that I look at it again it does seem like area damage is affected by crit

ok nevermind.. carpediem explained it to me-- I dont know why anyone would consider the fact that area damage might crit by itself. Visualizing in my head I see it as like an after shock of an attack not its own separate attack.
Is there a way to estimate the difference in (Rift-)Damage between Lions Claw in combination with Broken Promise and a 1 Hander (maybe with say 20% Cold Damage) under the assumption that LC has a worse BP proccrate?
Now that healing monks are all the rage, figured I would check to see if my old Gizzard Shield calculation from 2.2 held up and apparently... it did not. Looks like they fixed the mystic ally not benefiting from Gizzard LPS, but kept the Sustenance double-dipping into Ally's bonus intact. I haven't played around too much with the Healing Monk, but the few rifts I did do were pretty dang boring, as his sustain and gameplay are all low-risk, almost stand-in-explosions type affair.

Back on track! Assume base healer monk setup of Sustenance, Crudest Enduring Ally, Inna 2pc, and Soothing Light. Haven't bothered with Rogar's as you heal too fast for it to be worth using.

2.3 Gizzard Shield Forumla:

Passive LPS Calculation

A = Base LPS = Gizzard + Items + Paragon + Templar
B = Base Mantra (Sustenance) = 42,913.6
C = Base Ally (2x Enduring) = 42,913.6
D = Enduring Ally Bonus = Base LPS x ( 30% ) x 2 x 2
E = Sustenance Bonus = (Base LPS + Base Ally + Enduring Ally Bonus ) x ( 30% ) x 2 x 2

Total LPS = A + B + C + D + E
Gizzard Shield = 2 x Total LPS

"Burst" LPS Calculation (Soothing Light Active)

A = Base LPS = Gem + Items + Paragon + Templar
B = Base Mantra (Sustenance) = 42,913.6
C = Base Ally (2xEnduring) = 42,913.6
D = Enduring Ally & Soothing Light Bonus = Base LPS x ( 30% x 2 x 2 + 90% )
E = Sustenance Bonus = (Base LPS + Base Ally + Enduring Ally Bonus ) x ( 30% ) x 2 x 2
F = Soothing Light = 26,821
G = Mantra Bonus for Soothing Light = 26,821 x ( 30% ) x 2 x 2

Burst LPS = A + B + C + D + E + F + G

Ally LPS Calculation

A = Ally's personal LPS Total from Paragon, Items, Gizzard
B = Base Mantra (Sustenance) = 42,913.6
C = Healing Monk's Sustenance Bonus

Total Ally LPS = A + B + C.

So Allies do get (roughly) 60% of the healing Monk's LPS on top of what they already have. Haven't been able to confirm the Ally LPS calc with Soothing Light as it seems to be doing something weird, but the extra LPS does transfer over if allies are in range. I'm sure there are a few other group LPS buffs I am missing but with healing rates over 1m/sec may not be worth picking over a DPS option.
Hmmm wonder if theres a way to make rogars worth using.. does the snapshotted shield from Gizzard reset when u walk into a GR?

( I mean like using at all... still wouldnt wear it)..

example.. go in say ~t4 game

take gizzard off have death bargain in cube
..

Lower Health
Drag mob to festering woods waypoint,

take damage (any amount), port to town,

put on !@#$ <LOL LANGUAGE FILTERED (!@#$<ARD), flip armor to whatever you want to use in under 4 seconds with rogars on ..

Now your shield is .. I dont know if rogars is additive or multiplicative, but its a good deal stronker.) go in GR it probably wipes it fresh.. but I havent checked to be sure, even then I dont know how shields regen works if it would just go back to the snapped shield top or once you loose it you loose it til you get it back =?

Heh,, ya i have some pretty out there ideas in the mornings.
Heh probably if you could stay alive with some staggering of SSS, Serenity, and DS you could stay at 5% health with an insane shield and your team could heal 3x their max HP per second! ^_^
Thanks for that math davlok, I was really close last night to trying to figure it out myself. Glad I could be lazy instead!
I know it's a bit late (since this thread started in March), but I wanted to jump in real quick to say: thanks for making this helpful list, Davlok! :)

Sharing your knowledge of the game and helping others figure out how things work is a nice thing to do. I'm impressed to see it's continued to last and I appreciate your willingness to help people. You're pretty cool, in my book!
09/10/2015 06:05 AMPosted by BDF
Thanks for that math davlok, I was really close last night to trying to figure it out myself. Glad I could be lazy instead!

If you get bored, try and figure out the Soothing Light LPS calc for party members. I have exactly one data point from someone in town during a split bounty that was kind enough to to tell me their LPS, LPS with sustenance, and LPS with Soothing.

09/10/2015 06:43 PMPosted by Tyvalir
I know it's a bit late (since this thread started in March), but I wanted to jump in real quick to say: thanks for making this helpful list, Davlok! :)

Sharing your knowledge of the game and helping others figure out how things work is a nice thing to do. I'm impressed to see it's continued to last and I appreciate your willingness to help people. You're pretty cool, in my book!

Thanks for the kind words sir! My wife thinks I am crazy for having a more complicated spreadsheet for assorted Diablo 3 mechanics and testing than I do for the family finances ^_^ I do own ATVI stock so got to pad the HotS and D3 playerbase right?
09/11/2015 05:33 AMPosted by Davlok
My wife thinks I am crazy for having a more complicated spreadsheet for assorted Diablo 3 mechanics and testing than I do for the family finances


You're not the only one.
If you're at the attack speed cap of 5 APS will your first two punches of your spirit generators still be faster than the third? The first two punches have a functional something like 50% attack speed bonus but I don't know if that will go beyond the cap.
09/11/2015 08:52 AMPosted by Adjective
If you're at the attack speed cap of 5 APS will your first two punches of your spirit generators still be faster than the third? The first two punches have a functional something like 50% attack speed bonus but I don't know if that will go beyond the cap.

The 5 APS cap is only to sheet APS. IAS mods that don't show up on the sheet APS such as Alacrity, Raiment, or the innate generator IAS will surpass the 5 APS cap quite easily.

I made a short video of it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLY5-wIjk-0

The annoying part is some ICDs are based specifically on your sheet APS... such as Bane of the Stricken. So your generator attacks at 5 APS will be "out of sync" with BotS and you won't be gaining as many stacks of that as you think you should >_>
Tested EP's non-DoT (ID) version to see if it snapshots CoE or SWK, and it doesn't.

The on-death explosion damage is solely dependent on the buffs you have during the time of explosion. Application is irrelevant.

It was a bit more difficult to test reliably, and I also don't have any fancy screenshots to share, but in case somebody else was curious, hopefully you'll find this factoid useful.
09/13/2015 08:14 PMPosted by nand
Tested EP's non-DoT (ID) version to see if it snapshots CoE or SWK, and it doesn't.

The on-death explosion damage is solely dependent on the buffs you have during the time of explosion. Application is irrelevant.

It was a bit more difficult to test reliably, and I also don't have any fancy screenshots to share, but in case somebody else was curious, hopefully you'll find this factoid useful.

Aye, I had tested them previously here:

http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/16527322731?page=3#41

Some stuff does snapshot with EP however, working on a post about U2/6/EP while I'm watching the Giants win! ^_^

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